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PQQLK9
02-01-2005, 07:34 PM
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1466593,00.html

Householders can attack and even kill intruders in their home, new guidelines make clear. They risk prosecution only if they act in revenge or set a trap

You can kill a burglar if you have to, but not if you want to

THE CLUEDO GUIDELINES
Mrs Peacock disturbs burglars in the billiard room. They flee empty-handed. She chases after them with a shotgun and shoots one of them dead.
Unlawful

Colonel Mustard awakes to find a burglar standing by his bedside — he reaches for a length of lead piping, strikes out and knocks him unconscious or kills him.
Lawful

Miss Scarlett hears noises in the night. She creeps downstairs and sees a burglar in her dining room. He has not seen her. She seizes a candlestick, hides behind the door and strikes him unconscious.
Lawful

The Rev Green is woken by the noise of a burglar making his escape. He races after him and and with the butt of his revolver knocks him unconscious to the ground.
Lawful

Mrs White disturbs a burglar in the library. She seizes a knife in the kitchen and stabs him. He falls to the ground and is rapidly becoming unconscious. Just to teach him a lesson she stabs him again.
Unlawful

Professor Plum hears on the grapevine that a man he suspects of thefts from his house is planning forced entry through the kitchen. He lies in wait to trap the burglar and then shoots him or knocks him unconscious.
Unlawful

THE NEW ADVICE

What is ‘reasonable force’?

You are not expected to make fine judgments over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of your acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon. The more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence.

What if the intruder dies?

If you have acted in reasonable self-defence and the intruder dies,you will still have acted lawfully.

When would my actions not be lawful?

If having knocked someone unconscious you decided to hurt them further or kill them to punish them; or you knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or kill.

What if I chase them as they run off?

You are no longer acting in self-defence and the same degree of force may not be reasonable. You are still allowed to use reasonable force to recover your property and make a citizen’s arrest.

Do I have to wait to be attacked?

No, not if you are in your own home and in fear for yourself or others.

landshark77
02-01-2005, 08:44 PM
I thought this was the way it always was..you can shoot 'em if they are on your property..end of story.

DavidMorris
02-02-2005, 10:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> I thought this was the way it always was..you can shoot 'em if they are on your property..end of story. <hr /></blockquote>
It is that way in most states of the U.S., but that article is from the UK (or at least the link is to a UK source). The UK has always been extremely backwards in regards to self-defense -- numerous innocent people have been tried and convicted and sentenced when protecting themselves and their loved ones. It's good to see things changing, no doubt due to the UK's rising violent crime rate -- this despite their ban on handguns and otherwise very strict gun control laws. Which IMO proves the point that gun control does NOT reduce crime (witness Washington DC and Chicago, the two US cities with the strictest gun control yet the highest murder and violent crime rates in the country).

Deeman2
02-02-2005, 02:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> What is ‘reasonable force’?

You are not expected to make fine judgments over the level of force you use in the heat of the moment. So long as you only do what you honestly and instinctively believe is necessary in the heat of the moment, that would be the strongest evidence of your acting lawfully and in self-defence. This is still the case if you use something to hand as a weapon. The more extreme the circumstances and the fear felt, the more force you can lawfully use in self-defence. <font color="blue"> Gee, Officer Green, I didn't know a .44 Magnum with a Hypervel Xelerators would do that much damage. That's a heck of a hole in his head!</font color>

What if the intruder dies? <font color="blue"> You can ask him Inspector, Oh! Well if he still had lips and the ability to breath, he's tell you I warned him! </font color>

If you have acted in reasonable self-defence and the intruder dies,you will still have acted lawfully. <font color="blue"> You know, Judge, as well as I, that those nail clippers are considered a deadly weapon on most major airlines. </font color>

When would my actions not be lawful? <font color="blue"> A large Green Laser?</font color>

If having knocked someone unconscious you decided to hurt them further or kill them to punish them; or you knew of an intended intruder and set a trap to hurt or kill. <font color="blue"> Just cleaning those bear traps and he musta stepped on that biggen there. </font color>

What if I chase them as they run off? <font color="blue"> His blood trail clearly shows he was not headed for the "Front" door after I shot that first leg off!</font color>

You are no longer acting in self-defence and the same degree of force may not be reasonable. You are still allowed to use reasonable force to recover your property and make a citizen’s arrest. <font color="blue">Hey, I get 16 cents a pound for those aluminum cans, he had four of 'em at least! </font color>

Do I have to wait to be attacked? <font color="blue"> Not in my neighborhood! </font color>

No, not if you are in your own home and in fear for yourself or others. <font color="blue"> Warden, he was the one intruding. He rolled his wheelchair right up the steps, heck, I didn't even have a ramp. If I'd waited for him to come in, he might have violated my sister, Big Billie Bob. You know, those survey clipboards have sharp edges too! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

Deeman
I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him sue....