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Holly
05-29-2002, 09:37 AM
I am pleased to announce that Dr. Diana Sorrentino of New York City is a new CAT sponsor for 2002. Dr. Sorrentino, who is a Strategic Financial and Business Management specialist http://www.dianasorrentino.com/index.html - and former member of the WPBA Board, joins the CAT sponsor list of J. Pechauer (title sponsor), Joss Cues, InsidePool Magazine, Champion Billiards Sports Cafe, Bill and Billies CuesSports, Sharp Shooters Billiard Cafe, and last but certainly not least Mr. Harry Beeson. We want to thank everyone who has contributed to CAT and promoting women's regional billiards both with CAT as well as across the country.

Also a quick thanks to all the other RT operators for their words of wisdom and help during our startup first year: Mike Hurst (Southern CA. Women's Billiard Tour), Barbara Stock and Micaela Dames (NEWT), Marcia Manuel (SEAL), Julie Stephenson (HUNTER), and Jeannie Seaver (SPIRIT tour).


All the best!

Holly Ryan
CAT

Nostroke
05-31-2002, 08:34 AM
Holly-I hate to bring this because i know you work real hard in a thankless position and your integrity is beyond reproach but but Dr D plays in your events and is playing pretty good. If she were in the finals and there was a "hit" to be called and it was close or if the ref blew it in her favor, well there could be some unwanted controversy.

Rich R.
05-31-2002, 10:18 AM
Nostroke, I don't want to speak for Holly, but I have been to a couple of the C.A.T. events. I can tell you that almost all of the ladies are very friendly and it is almost like being at a weekly league event. The competition is fierse but friendly and, above all else, fair. I believe any call by the TD would be made in the fairest possible manner and their would be NO controversy. It would not matter if a sponsor or a first time player were involved. The ladies of C.A.T. are doing a great job.
Rich R.

Holly
05-31-2002, 01:53 PM
Hi Nostroke and Rich,

I appreciate both your comments. You are very kind and N, your question highly valid. Rich you are right, out of fairness and integrity sake we, Trish, Eve or myself would always make an honest call as we see it. However if ever, in any situation, a player would feel more comfortable asking a 3rd. party, such as a room owner, manager or staff member to make the call on a hit I don't see any problem ever with that as long as the person is knowledgable about pool and the type game being played. I would always encourage anyone in any tournament to feel the right to make this request.

I an deeply proud to be a part of this sport and feel lucky everyday to have made the friends I have through it, met many of the players that I've met so far and had the chance to converse and begin to get to know better some of the fine folks in the industry that I have had the privlege to meet. Diana's game is improving as is many of the women players I have had the chance to observe this year. I feel that CAT works on all of their behalfs as well as promoting the room owners and the sport overall.

However, I am also not blind to the controversies and intrigues as well as some of the less reputable practices that exist out there in our pool/billiard world. Shame on anyone who in their self interest would do harm or damage to the sport or industry either by their actions or lack of integrity. Being human we are all flawed and are capable of mistakes, however those who knowingly and willing act without conscience and with malice or for purely self centered interest where the results negatively impact the sport or game - I have and will never condone or have patience.

A quick anecdote: Just yesterday morning, while on a driving from DC to Philly, I was listening to a talk radio program - the topic was Integrity. The example given was at last years World Racketball Championship.Evidently there was a very tight match between the prevailing previous 2 or 3 time world champion and another world class player whose dream it was to win this title. He made a shot that gave him the match point win, it was a close shot. The main referee and two assistance referees all said the shot was good. The gentleman who made the shot walked to the player who had won the title many times and is a legend in the sport. When he shook the other man's hand he offered his congratulations and said that he thought the call was wrong because while the refs had called the shot good, he knew it had briefy touched the ground resulting in a foul. The shot was so fast however, as he further explained, that the refs did not catch it and made an inacurate call. He fully expected the call not to be in his favor. When asked by the press and other players later why, when the refs made the call securing his world title, did he speak up? He answered because he always knew there could be other matches, but he felt once a person loses their sense of integrity, it takes a 100 times more effort to regain it.

Take care,
Holly

Nostroke
05-31-2002, 04:08 PM
As i said, your integrity is not in question! But a mistake could get the conspiracy buffs flapping!

Barbara
05-31-2002, 04:47 PM
Nostroke,

Even though you won't reveal your true identity to me when I asked you, and since you seem to have "close" knowledge of the CAT and NEWT tours, I'll still respond to your post.

I've met Holly and have all the respect for her and her tour, and I know such an occurrence would not happen. Didn't you read her reply post?

And if the circumstances were the same in NEWT, it wouldn't happen, either. I'm a certified BCA referee. If I were called to a table to make a hit and someone objected because I know either one of the shooters, I'd have to excuse myself and call over someone else.

But that can only go so far until you exhaust all the people in the pool hall. Then, you have to rely on the RTC or the Ref.

Trust me, I never let my feelings for any player remotely come into the "call".

Barbara~~~Sir! I want to be the best Referee I can be, Sir!
(with all respect to all my teachers, thank you for all your professionalism /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif! )

Barbara
05-31-2002, 04:53 PM
Give a BUNCH of credit to the members of the tours!! I have never, EVER seen an argument or discussion happen in that circumstance.

The women players of the Regional Tours are definitely in a class by themselves!! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif!

Barbara

jjinfla
05-31-2002, 05:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Nostroke:</font><hr> Holly-I hate to bring this because i know you work real hard in a thankless position and your integrity is beyond reproach but but Dr D plays in your events and is playing pretty good. If she were in the finals and there was a "hit" to be called and it was close or if the ref blew it in her favor, well there could be some unwanted controversy. <hr></blockquote>
Hey nostroke, life is too short to worry about all the "what ifs" in this world. But it sounds like Holly has all the bases covered anyway. Jake

05-31-2002, 05:38 PM
Anyone who has ever met Holly, however briefly, gets the sense that this is a woman with an unquestionable personal code of ethics. I know she would not hesitate to call a bad hit on Diana. In fact, if she thought even for a moment Diana was trying to buy goodwill, she would never have accepted her check!

facets58
05-31-2002, 11:18 PM
I think it is a non issue. If a bad call is made then you have an issue, until then it doesn't help to speculate. Dr. D is above this whole issue, I'm not going to drag her down to this petty level. If there is a questionable issue at hand...then we can discuss it.

Until then give it a rest. No disrespect intended.

Mike--

06-01-2002, 12:16 AM
NoStroke, I don't think this would be an issue at all.

However, one thing which is absolutely reprehensible is when tournament directors participate in calcuttas by buying players. I have seen this over and over again, both overtly and covertly (by having his friends make the purchase for him). While I have no direct knowledge of a hit call being swayed by such circumstances, I consider it such a blatant conflict of interest that it really doesn't matter. It simply shouldn't be done.

Anyway, I should mention that I've only seen this in men's events :-)

- Steve

Nostroke
06-01-2002, 01:22 AM
Damn Im pretty upset, I never said, remotely implied or thought for one milisecond, that anyone would deliberately make a bad call or that anyone had tried to curry favor.

From now on ill keep my thoughts to myself or discuss such issues as the "appearance of impropriety" with friends who understand me a bit better.

Thank you for not hanging me.

facets58
06-01-2002, 07:49 AM
Judge, loosen that noose...this man still has somethin ti say.

Saturdays not a good day for hanging...better for pool playing.

...will be providing updates to the SCWBT's second stop later today.

Mike--

cuechick
06-01-2002, 09:32 AM
Don't sweat it Nostroke. It was a fair and obvious question. I think the C.A.T. tour has done a great job but I too had to wonder when a "player" becames a " sponsor" what the that might imply? I would think in most competitve sports this would disqualify you from particpating at all. But pool is not like most sports and I do feel the integrity of those involved is beyond reproach. I myself as a player on the tour have no problem with it.
I do feel that the bigger concern, rather than the rare questionable hit, is the draw. I believe in Laurel (at the 1st CAT event) we pulled our own draw, blindly out of a bag. I think ALL tournamnets should do this. Leave me to fate and the powers that be and I'll never have a question or concern. I think when EVER the organizer(s) also competes this is the best way, I think it benifits them as well ( I think sometimes some TD's give themselves a tough draw to avoid questions....). It's also usually faster, done durring the player meeting, you have the draw done right away.
IMHO /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

FYI Steve, we have no calcuttas, we are gentile young ladies. (yeah right) but really we don't. I agree though that is a hanis practice.

06-01-2002, 04:10 PM
Nostroke, when I mentioned this wouldn't be an issue, I was referring to the controversy surrounding a close call. I was not implying at all that you were saying anyone would be dishonest.

Sorry about the misunderstanding, though.

- Steve

Nostroke
06-01-2002, 11:01 PM
wasnt you i was really replying to Steve. Just happened to hit your button because it was the last one i'd read. It was me who caused the confusion-sorry.

Barbara
06-02-2002, 04:27 PM
Cuechick,

We randomly assign draw numbers to players in NEWT with these numbered discs we put down face first, mix up, and then turn over. Do you think we're doing a fair draw?

Barbara

cuechick
06-02-2002, 05:17 PM
I am sure you do a fair draw, I did not mean to imply otherwise... I just lke the idea of me being responsible for choosing my own fate...

06-02-2002, 11:32 PM
Nostroke,
I read through this thread again, just to see if I missed something. I didn't think we hung you. You brought up a point, we replied. You were not attacked, by me or anyone else. We all simply reassured you that your concern was appreciated, but the situation would not come to pass. What's the deal?

Holly
06-03-2002, 06:21 AM
Happy Monday everyone,

: ) Nostroke, I never took your intitial inquiry as a question on mine, Trish or Eve's integrity. I appreciate the string that has occured because of your initial note because good healthy dialogue about ethics and pool makes people think more about it in general and maybe empower those who do believe in the high road.

I wanted to respond real quick about the comment from Cuechick about the draw practice at CAT. I appreciate what you said and will relay that back to Trish, one of my partners who acts as the tournament director at each stop. This is the first input we had on this particualr subject. We did change the draw back to a more traditional chips, turned over type of draw, much as Barbara and Micaela practice with NEWT. It is also fair and takes far less time. I will mention to T however and we can revisit it.

Any CAT players out there - let me know, if you have an opinion one way or the other, and we will discuss it at the next 3CP meeting coming up.

As a quick side note, while each regional tour has various practices as how things are ran at their respective tournaments I have observed great professionalism both in person as well as through correspondence with the other RT organziers.

Have a great week and thanks,
Holly

Nostroke
06-03-2002, 08:41 AM
I know you didnt Holly. There were several that followed that did. Although i m probably too sensitive, some seemed more of an attack than a healthy dialogue. At any rate the tone has changed now, I won a set from a better player last nite and all is well.