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View Full Version : 15ball rotation!!!



aco76
02-09-2005, 01:45 AM
I have some questions and observations on this exceptionally challenging game.

I've tried it for the first time this evening, and I must say that the game requires all types of shots...and I mean ALL of them. At first I was reluctant to try it because I thought it would be too difficult. But we were surprisingly good. A clubmate of mine even ran out completely playing his second rack ever!!! It wasn't even as slow as I was expecting.

The game is a real eye-opener for me:
1. My speed control sucks - biggest flaw
2. My bank shots are horrible (I knew that before)
3. My combos suck real bad
4. Not too bad at carom type shots (didn't know I even got them)
5. Shotmaking not too bad
6. Typical 9ball safeties can be quite effective

From now on I'll devote 15 ball rotation considerable amout of time! It has got to improve my game! I don't know what took me so long...


I've read some rules I could find, but there are some things which are usually not mentioned and can be quite confusing...

Let's say I break and 6 high numbered balls drop in. Have I won? I think so, because the rules I've read don't say that you need to call anything.

My opponent commits a foul by scratching, but my object ball is in the kitchen. The rules I've read don't say anything about whether you can shoot the balls in the kitchen or not. If I may not shoot, than the right tactic would be to make my opponent shoot again, right?

Sometimes I was in a position where an object ball was really difficult to reach, so I opted to commit a deliberate foul. Is this what good 15ball rotation players would do?

Thanks for your attention...

UTAddb
02-09-2005, 11:24 AM
Something I like to do is throw out 11 balls and play them in rotation. It's tougher than 9 ball but a little less traffic than rotation. It's a cinch when you go back to 9.

bsmutz
02-09-2005, 12:29 PM
I play rotation quite a bit and am familiar with the rules. If the lowest number ball is in the kitchen, you have the option of moving it to the foot spot (or behind whatever ball is occupying the foot spot) or shooting at it in the kitchen. The cue ball must cross the headstring before contact for it to be a legal shot. I'm not sure if you can make the opponent shoot again. Any balls made on a legal shot are counted (as long as you hit the one on the break, whatever goes in counts). Since there is no ball in hand rule or any penalty for a foul, in a competitive situation, I would opt for a foul shot if there is no way to hit the low ball. I will pretty much always make an honest attempt to hit the lowest ball. You kind of have to go with what you feel is right in this game. There are situations that arise where you have no hope of even coming close to hitting the low ball first. Also, since there is no penalty for a foul, it would be really easy to play killer safeties on each other which would end up making the game pretty boring. I usually make an agreement with my opponent that we will make an honest attempt to hit the low ball on all shots, even if there is no way to do it. Although it is a fun and very challenging game, because of the rules, I wouldn't gamble on it and I wouldn't use it as a game for serious competition, unless you both agreed on some rule changes. Running an entire rack is very difficult to do and is quite an accomplishment. My best is 13 so far. It is an excellent game for friends to play. I play it with my wife where she can shoot at any ball. She is getting good enough now where I have to shoot really well to beat her.

JMD in VA
02-09-2005, 10:03 PM
That is what has made the philipino players so great. Back home, thats all they play. There was a story about Efren when he was back in the ROP that if he had an open rotation table and could see the 1 ball, the odds on him running out were 1:1. Also, when the world championships years ago was in Chicago, he was practicing for a local tv crew and ran 4 racks of rotation in a row just throwing them out on the table. Now and then you will hear of Efren and Corey matching up and playing some rotation. What a great game!

JMD in VA
Countin down to the US Open and the 4th Annual CCB Tournament...... and my next title. lol

crawdaddio
02-09-2005, 11:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
. Also, since there is no penalty for a foul, it would be really easy to play killer safeties on each other which would end up making the game pretty boring. <hr /></blockquote>

Except of course, if you're playing the three foul rule.

3 consecutive fouls=loss of game.

~DC

pooltchr
02-10-2005, 03:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JMD in VA:</font><hr> Countin down to the US Open and the 4th Annual CCB Tournament...... and my next title. lol <hr /></blockquote>

I hope to have something to say about that!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Steve

aco76
02-11-2005, 06:20 AM
Thanks for the replies guys!

The first day we tried to play the game, I had almost everybody fired up for the game. Unfortunately, after a few days only myself and a friend will continue to play the game. I'm really dissapointed with other players in my club. None of them even want to play straight pool.

One guy who beat me the first day at that game said that you need to be a complete player to play the game. The next day after he lost to me, he said that the game is not for him... /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Granted, he is a better 9baller than me, but he basically wants easy runout game. 15ball rotation is anything but that, because position zones are so narrow.

The same story with straight pool all over again. Why are people like that? They (solely 9ball and 8ball players) refuse to play any game which is a little tougher and out of their comfort zone.

I happen to like those games that are tougher, because at 9ball if you're nervous you could actually lose to someone who can barely run 3 balls. No such thing can happen at let's say 14.1. Wouldn't you agree?

Cueless Joey
02-11-2005, 08:41 AM
I always thought rotation was race to 61 points.

LeftyIke
02-13-2005, 02:03 AM
ROTATION IS INDEED A RACE TO 61 POINTS BY HITTING THE BALLS IN ORDER; HOWEVER, IF THE GAME IS TOO TOUGH FOR YOU OR TAKES TOO LONG, YOU CAN PLAY 61, WHICH IS YOU CAN MAKE ANY BALL AND GET THE POINTS ON THE BALL. THIS IS STILL A RACE TO 61 POINTS, BUT CONTACTING THEM IN NUMERICAL ORDER IS NOT NECESSARY. THE TABLE IS WIDE OPEN, AND COMBOS, KISSES, BILLIARDS, AND EVERY OTHER KIND OF OFFENSIVE SHOT IS ALLOWED; LIMITED ONLY BY YOUR IMAGINATION. I LOVE IT BECAUSE IN MOST 8-BALL OR 9-BALL GAMES YOU LOSE YOUR SHOT AND TURN AT THE TABLE IF YOU MAKE A COMBO THAT DIDN'T HIT YOUR OWN BALL FIRST,EVEN IF YOU CALL IT! THE FILIPINO PLAYERS PLAYED ROTATION SO WELL AND AGAINST TOP COMPETITION FOR SO LONG THAT, 9-BALL OVER HERE IS NOTHING TO THEM! IF YOU FEEL THAT ROTATION IS TOO TIME-CONSUMING OR WOULD LIKE TO SPEED THINGS UP, PLAY "61", WHERE YOU CAN SHOOT ANY BALLS AT ANY TIME; AS LONG AS YOU MAKE A BALL, YOU KEEP SHOOTING; ALTHOUGH SOME PLAYERS AGREE TO CALL THE SHOTS IN ORDER FOR THEM TO COUNT.

roscoe
02-13-2005, 07:44 AM
When I was a young lad we played a variety of games you don't see anymore.....one was rotation....although we called it Chicago.

We would have to make the balls in order. The person with the most balls made got paid, The person whose balls added up to the greatest number got paid. Plus every odd numbered ball was a money ball. Don't remember about the fouls but I believe it was BIH behind the kitchen.

Roscoe

Cueless Joey
02-13-2005, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote roscoe:</font><hr> When I was a young lad we played a variety of games you don't see anymore.....one was rotation....although we called it Chicago.

We would have to make the balls in order. The person with the most balls made got paid, The person whose balls added up to the greatest number got paid. Plus every odd numbered ball was a money ball. Don't remember about the fouls but I believe it was BIH behind the kitchen.

Roscoe <hr /></blockquote>
On fouls, we played spot option. You can shoot it as it lays or you spot the ball and cueball goes to the kitchen. A scracthed cueball always went to the kitchen. IF the object ball is in the kitchen after a scratch, you had to spot it.

dandydan
02-13-2005, 10:14 AM

Popcorn
02-13-2005, 10:42 AM
Would you call it a worse game then 9-ball to gamble at? 9-ball a guy can make every ball and lose by just hanging the 9. It may be me personally but I would rather gamble at rotation.

Cueless Joey
02-13-2005, 11:22 AM
Same here.
9-ball's very disheartening at times. You miss a tough 9 then the other breaks 9-ball in. How many times has that happened?
Barbox 8-ball is just as bad imo.

mworkman
02-13-2005, 11:35 AM
How do you figure bar box 8-ball is just as bad? Are you referring to when you miss the 8 your opponent will probably win? Or are you talking the 8 on the snap?

johnnyt
02-13-2005, 01:50 PM
At my room in the 70's we played rotation, but we called it money ball. The payouts were on the 1/5/10/15/&amp; total points. It was a fun game to pass the time playing partners until you got a real game with someone.
Johnnyt

Popcorn
02-13-2005, 07:49 PM
Quote
"At my room in the 70's we played rotation, but we called it money ball. The payouts were on the 1/5/10/15/&amp; total points. It was a fun game to pass the time playing partners until you got a real game with someone."
Johnnyt


That was a real game. When I was like 16 I played odd ball and pill pool every night. Even at quarters and halves I was winning more then the average guy was making in a week working back then. What worked out best was no one got hurt. In a 10 game maybe 20 or more different players would be in and out and most left a little something in the game. I have often tried to get up a pill game in recent years but it just never goes. Back then I could play in a dozen different games. There was one in every room that may run from opening to closing. On weekends when I wasn't in school I played almost non stop for the whole weekend. To play for 24 hours or more was nothing.

monkeydude20
02-13-2005, 11:49 PM
Dude you are really on to something with this game. I mean holy [censored], this is a freaking awesome game to improve your overall game. This is like straight pool but seemingly harder; well other than the break part of 14.1. Other than that it sounds like a freaking sweet game. Thanks a million for the idea.
Jk /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Popcorn
02-14-2005, 12:04 PM
I think the road to excellent play is doing the fairly simple things at a very very high level. Basic practice done right, competing and learning the different games is pretty much all that is required to becoming a good player. You like to use Mosconi's name, he was the master of simplicity.

Popcorn
02-14-2005, 12:25 PM
A lot is made of Efrin starting out playing rotation and it is true but not for the reasons some may think. It is not the running of the balls that make the difference but things that you routinely do in rotation that he brought to 9 ball. I saw him play not long after he came to this country and what he did was get out using shots we would pass on. He thought nothing of shooting a combo, I mean tough ones, that we would have looked to play a safe on. He made billiards, banks kicks that no one else ever did in competition up to that time. He steals away games with one of these shots. Combine that with almost perfect play in general and you have practically an unbeatable player. Just shooting with a few extra balls on the table is not going to replicate what Efrin has done. It adds a little extra challenge but you have to actually play competitive rotation to acquire what the game has to teach.

johnnyt
02-14-2005, 02:30 PM
Your right Popcorn. In my room in NY I had 2 tables going with Money Ball from 12-12. Also I agree 95% of the players never got stung bad. It was constant changing of players and partners. JohnnyT