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Lockwood
02-09-2005, 05:17 AM
A reporter was at the room the other night doing a story on women in pool.
Any thoughts?

pooltchr
02-09-2005, 05:52 AM
Yes! There aren't anywhere near enough of them!!!
Steve

Sid_Vicious
02-09-2005, 05:58 AM
DITTO! sid

Lockwood
02-09-2005, 06:22 AM
why

DickLeonard
02-09-2005, 06:43 AM
How about this a good looking single women joins a Golf Club and within two years she has married a rich young man. Any women with her future in her mind knows that the poolroom is not the place to meet Mr.Right.####

GeraldG
02-09-2005, 06:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> How about this a good looking single women joins a Golf Club and within two years she has married a rich young man. Any women with her future in her mind knows that the poolroom is not the place to meet Mr.Right.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Very good point.

LARRY_BOY
02-09-2005, 06:56 AM
Women have a tendency to gravitate towards seditary activities.

GeraldG
02-09-2005, 07:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Women have a tendency to gravitate towards seditary activities. <hr /></blockquote>

I haven't noticed that....

However, what I have noticed is that most of the women you see in Pool Halls are either there with boyfriends/husbands on a "date" or, if they are alone, are there more to socialize than to play pool. Unfortunately it seems that the percentage of women that are there to play serious pool is low. There are some, to be sure (and some are great players), but they seem to be the minority.

9 Ball Girl
02-09-2005, 08:15 AM
You are so right. It took 3 pool playing guys that I dated to make me realize that a pool hall is not the place to meet your future whatever.

Wendy&lt;---is now in the NYPD field...(see how that one will work)

justbrake
02-09-2005, 08:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> You are so right. It took 3 pool playing guys that I dated to make me realize that a pool hall is not the place to meet your future whatever.

Wendy&lt;---is now in the NYPD field...(see how that one will work) <hr /></blockquote>

Hi-Wendy is that why you don't pick up a stick anymore! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

9 Ball Girl
02-09-2005, 09:00 AM
I stopped "picking up the stick" whilst with the 3rd pool player. To pick it up again just brings back good but painful memories so it's just put away for now...

Popcorn
02-09-2005, 09:13 AM
I never had a good experience with reporters. They always start with a preconceived idea or angle. They have no interest in truth, stay away from them.

LARRY_BOY
02-09-2005, 09:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Women have a tendency to gravitate towards seditary activities. <hr /></blockquote>

I haven't noticed that....

Get on any singles web site and the number 1 female hobby will be reading. Join a running club and 90% will be male,drive by a golf coarse and you will see 80% men. The list goes on but I won't........
However, what I have noticed is that most of the women you see in Pool Halls are either there with boyfriends/husbands on a "date" or, if they are alone, are there more to socialize than to play pool. Unfortunately it seems that the percentage of women that are there to play serious pool is low. There are some, to be sure (and some are great players), but they seem to be the minority. <hr /></blockquote>

DebraLiStarr
02-09-2005, 10:39 AM
I don't enjoy the pool hall atmosphere anymore. I have recently purchased a home table, and the only time I go to pool halls is on league night. Just like 9ballgirl I've had some interesting experiences dating pool players. I don't date pool players anymore. I have my reasons. Many guys are rude to women while they are playing pool. One time when I lived in Los Angeles, I was shooting pool with some friends and this guy game up to me and said, "Heyyy...Nice Shot."
I said, "Thank you. Thant one wasn't so difficult."
He says, "I was talking about the view." Then he smiled all creepy and gave me the up and downs with his eyeballs...ick!!!

I bet that was designed to just charm me to death. I'm not saying that all guys are losers like that guy, but that happens more often than you can imagine. The girls know what I'm talking about - and all of the guys will deny that they have ever stared at a girl's butt when she's down in her shooting stance, but we all know that it happens. It makes me uncomfortable so I stay away from that atmosphere.

BCgirl
02-09-2005, 11:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Women have a tendency to gravitate towards seditary activities. <hr /></blockquote>

I haven't noticed that....

However, what I have noticed is that most of the women you see in Pool Halls are either there with boyfriends/husbands on a "date" or, if they are alone, are there more to socialize than to play pool. Unfortunately it seems that the percentage of women that are there to play serious pool is low. There are some, to be sure (and some are great players), but they seem to be the minority. <hr /></blockquote>

Um, maybe it has something to do with the fact that it's a small minority of pool halls that are nice places for people to socialise. Go somewhere like Amsterdam Billiards in NYC, and other high-end halls, and there's a high percentage of girls, both in casual, league and competitive play. Go to the local "Billy's Ball Joint" and you'll see a very different mix. If a place is "edgy" or dirty or just cold, as so many are, the more discerning person (male and female alike) is much more likely to opt for some other activity. Of course, women are generally more likely to be running, swimming, playing volleyball ... being the more "sedentary" individuals that we are.

BCgirl

landshark77
02-09-2005, 12:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> How about this a good looking single women joins a Golf Club and within two years she has married a rich young man. Any women with her future in her mind knows that the poolroom is not the place to meet Mr.Right.#### <hr /></blockquote>

I disagree, while I did not intitally meet my husband in a pool hall, most of our courtship was in a pool hall/ bar pool room. Eh, that's still really the only place we go. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

GeraldG
02-09-2005, 12:15 PM
That could very well be true, BCGirl.

MosconiJr
02-09-2005, 01:35 PM
Alright 9bg, I hate to give it to you straight, but here goes. You are typical of every female I have met in the pool room. They go for the least stable guy that plays pool. He is the "big time gambler", always wagering the whole bankroll and not worrying about tomorrow. The allure of the gambling, flashing big money, not working for a living, and hanging out in pool rooms is what attracts females to these types of guys. Girls fall for guys who are like this, and then when the realization hits that this type of life is not all fun and games like they first imagined, and without steady money coming in to support them, women then hold all male pool player at fault for this. They put us on the same level as the guys they met in college who took them out, slept with them, and didn't call them the next day.

Guys who play pool for a living have developed hard hearted attitudes about alot of things, and oft times girlfriends are one of those things. They have to be survivors and care mostly about themselves and their craft. They must do this to survive. Some (I said some) women want both worlds. They want their little "bad boy" who is macho enough to beat all the other guys out of their money, but want to be able to turn this guy into "Mr. Sensitive" when they want that as well. And when it doesn't work out, the rest of the pool playing males catch the wrath for it.

We males who work, and can support a female, don't ever get noticed because we have automobiles, houses, and other financial obligations that road players don't have. And we don't play quite as well as they do either, because we have to work 8 hours a day and can't practice all day long. We love the game, but have other interests as well. But that doesn't matter to you females. It's all about the "bad boys".

Almost all females (I said almost) that enjoy pool fall first for the guys in the pool room that are the worst for them. As a player who will spend most of the rest of his social life in a pool room, I just hope that there are some females who will not protect their feelings behind a brick wall, and will take a chance on some of the other, more stable guys in the rooms.

MosconiJr

SpiderMan
02-09-2005, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Women have a tendency to gravitate towards seditary activities. <hr /></blockquote>

I haven't noticed that....

However, what I have noticed is that most of the women you see in Pool Halls are either there with boyfriends/husbands on a "date" or, if they are alone, are there more to socialize than to play pool. Unfortunately it seems that the percentage of women that are there to play serious pool is low. There are some, to be sure (and some are great players), but they seem to be the minority. <hr /></blockquote>

Who cares if they are great players? If they're there at all, without being "brought", they are far more interesting than the majority.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
02-09-2005, 01:46 PM
Very well put, Mosconi. I don't think your description fits NBG's situation (she's more sensible), but it was a good post and I have seen what you say.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
02-09-2005, 01:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr> I don't date pool players anymore. I have my reasons. <hr /></blockquote>

Are you a pool player? Most of us on this board are not.

SpiderMan

9 Ball Girl
02-09-2005, 01:50 PM
Actually, I was the one who always wanted to be in the poolroom. nAz can attest to that. The problems I had with this last one had nothing whatsoever to do with pool. Matter of fact, the good times that we had were in the pool room and as I mentioned in another post, it is incredibly painful for me to go back to that pool room (I will eventually) and that's why I haven't picked up a stick. On the rare occasions when I do shoot, I go with nAz to another pool room. This last BF was not a big time gambler, he had a mediocre bank roll that was sufficient (so is mine and I support myself anyway), he worked for a living, and we just didn't hang out in the pool room, we played in tournaments. I do see your point though and again, nAz can attest to this, I wasn't looking for anyone. There's actually more stuff but it's personal and all I can tell you is that it had nothing to do with pool. So, in this order, I had in my last 3 relationships with pool players the Bad Boy, The One Everyone Loves, and the one where I was always asked, "What's Wrong With You?" LOL

GeraldG
02-09-2005, 02:00 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> Women have a tendency to gravitate towards seditary activities. <hr /></blockquote>

I haven't noticed that....

However, what I have noticed is that most of the women you see in Pool Halls are either there with boyfriends/husbands on a "date" or, if they are alone, are there more to socialize than to play pool. Unfortunately it seems that the percentage of women that are there to play serious pool is low. There are some, to be sure (and some are great players), but they seem to be the minority. <hr /></blockquote>

Who cares if they are great players? If they're there at all, without being "brought", they are far more interesting than the majority.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

You are absolutely correct.

Stretch
02-09-2005, 02:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> You are so right. It took 3 pool playing guys that I dated to make me realize that a pool hall is not the place to meet your future whatever.

.....is 'insignificant-other' the word you were looking for? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I met my fiance' at a pool hall. Er, at least that's where we had arranged to meet (for the first time). Sheesh! and now she's assistant home team captain, on the league team. LOL St.

MosconiJr
02-09-2005, 02:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> This last BF was not a big time gambler, he had a mediocre bank roll that was sufficient (so is mine and I support myself anyway), he worked for a living, and we just didn't hang out in the pool room, we played in tournaments.<hr /></blockquote>
9bg,

You must run an internet porn site, or sell illegal substances. You post to the internet forums each day, and frequent the pool rooms all night (until recently, anyway). So if you have a significant bank roll at all, how do you do it????? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MosconiJr

cheese_ball
02-09-2005, 02:25 PM
NOT ALL POOL PLAYERS ARE DOGS -- just most of them. My general feeling is, if you go to the slimy halls, expect slimy walls (and apparently guys as well).

Fortunately there are plenty of upscale pool halls here in Chicago. G Cue being one of my favorites. To any of you Chi-towners, you can usually find me there on Saturday nights. PM me if you want to run a few racks.

DebraLiStarr
02-09-2005, 02:27 PM
Mosconi Jr... I have to say this.. and take this the wrong way... but...
As a female that has been around the pool hall for a while, I think you are dead wrong on some of your comments. I have never gone for a bad boy, a big time gambler, or the least stable guy in the room. That might be what you have seen where you are at, or I don't fit your stereotype. It's not whether guys have developed a hard-hearted attitude or not... it comes down to being a respectful person. Most of the guys are very very very disrespectful, not all, but most. Insinuating that some us dated pool players because of their ability to win money is laughable, and not applicable in my case. I am very well educated, I have a very good job that earns me over 6 figures annually. I don't need anybody to help "support me". In this statement, I think you are very disrespectful.
<font color="purple">We males who work, and can support a female, don't ever get noticed because we have automobiles, houses, and other financial obligations that road players don't have. And we don't play quite as well as they do either, because we have to work 8 hours a day and can't practice all day long. We love the game, but have other interests as well. But that doesn't matter to you females. It's all about the "bad boys". </font color>

This insinuates that women are there looking for a boyfriend to support us. Not the case with me, and I'm pretty sure its not the case with Wendy either. I like to shoot pool, I love the game. What matters to me is that I be treated as a lady. I dress like a lady, I talk like a lady, I act like a lady, and I expect to be treated as one. There's no if's or but's to that either. You are a man so I don't expect for you to understand the perspective of a woman.

I agree that a few bad apples tend to spoil the entire bunch. I haven't constructed a brick wall as you said in your post. But...I do find it difficult to concentrate on playing pool on my league night when when I am receiving unwanted male attention from two or three guys in the room that gawk, stare, move around the room for a better view when I am shooting pool. That's rude, uncalled for, but very typical. I am not the only woman that has this happening to her. People that know me know that I do not dress provocatively in any way, so it is not like I am trying to get attention. Some men (NOT ALL OF THEM) are simply rude and obnoxious.

In any social environment (not just the pool hall) there are drawbacks. The view that women need a man to support them is completely off base, and sexist. To insinuate that finding a man to financially to support us is our main objective is completely wrong with just about every woman that I know. I'm sure you have probably seen this in your experience with other women, but it's not the case with everybody.

cuechick
02-09-2005, 03:01 PM
Well as a woman and pool player, who also has experienced two very different worlds of pool and female players. I'll share that after living in NYC and playing in two rooms(Corner &amp; Amsterdam), that had many strong serious female players, I was surprised at the lack of serious female players down here in the south.
There are some, but most women I see are league players and not serious at all. The is far less ambition overall and I think this has a bit to do with social differences. Down here (Atlanta) women get married pretty young and have families. Playing in anything other than a league once a week is not only a time consideration but a financial one.
In NY, most of the women I know that play are unmarried or at least do not have children, and are more career oriented, and treat pool like a 2nd (and some a 1st) job.
It is a lot about priorities and since for even the best players it is hard to make a living playing pool, it is a hard thing to devote your time and life too.
As a woman who has played in many rooms from coast to coast, and most often walk in on my own. I have always seen mixed reaction. You are always noticed in a new place and in most places it is still a novelty.
I often see here groups of young people, where the girls sit and watch, as the boys play...that will never change. Though, there will always be those few gutsy girls that want to beat the boys...and that too will never change.
Nothing I like better than beating a few good men /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Brian in VA
02-09-2005, 03:14 PM
Tap..tap..tap...Well said.

Brian in VA

GeraldG
02-09-2005, 03:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr> Mosconi Jr... I have to say this.. and take this the wrong way... but...
As a female that has been around the pool hall for a while, I think you are dead wrong on some of your comments. I have never gone for a bad boy, a big time gambler, or the least stable guy in the room. That might be what you have seen where you are at, or I don't fit your stereotype. It's not whether guys have developed a hard-hearted attitude or not... it comes down to being a respectful person. Most of the guys are very very very disrespectful, not all, but most. Insinuating that some us dated pool players because of their ability to win money is laughable, and not applicable in my case. I am very well educated, I have a very good job that earns me over 6 figures annually. I don't need anybody to help "support me". In this statement, I think you are very disrespectful.
<font color="purple">We males who work, and can support a female, don't ever get noticed because we have automobiles, houses, and other financial obligations that road players don't have. And we don't play quite as well as they do either, because we have to work 8 hours a day and can't practice all day long. We love the game, but have other interests as well. But that doesn't matter to you females. It's all about the "bad boys". </font color>

This insinuates that women are there looking for a boyfriend to support us. Not the case with me, and I'm pretty sure its not the case with Wendy either. I like to shoot pool, I love the game. What matters to me is that I be treated as a lady. I dress like a lady, I talk like a lady, I act like a lady, and I expect to be treated as one. There's no if's or but's to that either. You are a man so I don't expect for you to understand the perspective of a woman.

I agree that a few bad apples tend to spoil the entire bunch. I haven't constructed a brick wall as you said in your post. But...I do find it difficult to concentrate on playing pool on my league night when when I am receiving unwanted male attention from two or three guys in the room that gawk, stare, move around the room for a better view when I am shooting pool. That's rude, uncalled for, but very typical. I am not the only woman that has this happening to her. People that know me know that I do not dress provocatively in any way, so it is not like I am trying to get attention. Some men (NOT ALL OF THEM) are simply rude and obnoxious.

In any social environment (not just the pool hall) there are drawbacks. The view that women need a man to support them is completely off base, and sexist. To insinuate that finding a man to financially to support us is our main objective is completely wrong with just about every woman that I know. I'm sure you have probably seen this in your experience with other women, but it's not the case with everybody. <hr /></blockquote>

Men look at women, women look at men. That's nature. I agree that it's in poor form to leer and make rude comments, but let me just say that I've had women do EXACTLY the same thing to me in pool halls. Believe me, men do not have that market cornered. Apparently, we men don't have the stereotyping market cornered, either. I don't know if it's fortunate or unfortunate...I guess it depends on what you enjoy. If it's something that you can't tolerate, then I would have to say that a pool hall isn't the place for you to hang out. You seem to even have trouble identifying the percentage of men that you have a problem with...in your first paragraph, you say most men(not all but most)..in your third, you say two or three...are you on the verge of stereotyping all men because of the behavior of two or three?

You really seem to have assumed that what Mosconi Jr wrote was written specifically about you.

"Insinuating that some us dated pool players because of their ability to win money is laughable, and not applicable in my case."

This is definitely NOT laughable, because I have seen it myself, numerous times. It may not apply to you, but once again, I don't think it was written about you personally.

"I don't need anybody to help "support me". In this statement, I think you are very disrespectful."

What was disrespectful? Once again, it wasn't written about you.

"You are a man so I don't expect for you to understand the perspective of a woman."

THAT was disrespectful. Are you saying that men are incapable of seeing a woman's perspective? Isn't that a bit of a stereotype?

"I haven't constructed a brick wall as you said in your post."

I wonder.

"I'm sure you have probably seen this in your experience with other women, but it's not the case with everybody."

Nobody ever said it was.

MosconiJr
02-09-2005, 03:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr> Mosconi Jr... I have to say this.. and take this the wrong way... but...
As a female that has been around the pool hall for a while, I think you are dead wrong on some of your comments. I have never gone for a bad boy, a big time gambler, or the least stable guy in the room. That might be what you have seen where you are at, or I don't fit your stereotype. It's not whether guys have developed a hard-hearted attitude or not... it comes down to being a respectful person. Most of the guys are very very very disrespectful, not all, but most. Insinuating that some us dated pool players because of their ability to win money is laughable, and not applicable in my case. I am very well educated, I have a very good job that earns me over 6 figures annually. I don't need anybody to help "support me". In this statement, I think you are very disrespectful.
<font color="purple">We males who work, and can support a female, don't ever get noticed because we have automobiles, houses, and other financial obligations that road players don't have. And we don't play quite as well as they do either, because we have to work 8 hours a day and can't practice all day long. We love the game, but have other interests as well. But that doesn't matter to you females. It's all about the "bad boys". </font color>

This insinuates that women are there looking for a boyfriend to support us. Not the case with me, and I'm pretty sure its not the case with Wendy either. I like to shoot pool, I love the game. What matters to me is that I be treated as a lady. I dress like a lady, I talk like a lady, I act like a lady, and I expect to be treated as one. There's no if's or but's to that either. You are a man so I don't expect for you to understand the perspective of a woman.

I agree that a few bad apples tend to spoil the entire bunch. I haven't constructed a brick wall as you said in your post. But...I do find it difficult to concentrate on playing pool on my league night when when I am receiving unwanted male attention from two or three guys in the room that gawk, stare, move around the room for a better view when I am shooting pool. That's rude, uncalled for, but very typical. I am not the only woman that has this happening to her. People that know me know that I do not dress provocatively in any way, so it is not like I am trying to get attention. Some men (NOT ALL OF THEM) are simply rude and obnoxious.

In any social environment (not just the pool hall) there are drawbacks. The view that women need a man to support them is completely off base, and sexist. To insinuate that finding a man to financially to support us is our main objective is completely wrong with just about every woman that I know. I'm sure you have probably seen this in your experience with other women, but it's not the case with everybody. <hr /></blockquote>
Debra,

I never worry about taking things the wrong way. And I welcome a debate from an intelligent female. We live in different geographical areas. That may have some bearing, but I don't think it makes that much difference where you live. I think that basically men and women are the same everywhere.

Your post is well thought out, but I do sense just a little bitterness in the tone. And, truthfully, I just don't believe everything that you are saying. I think that you believe it. But bottled up resentment towards anything sometimes clouds our perception. First, it's hard for me to believe that you have never fallen for a "bad boy". Every woman I know has. And they have gotten their hearts broken. There is nothing wrong with that. I think all guys also have fallen for the "bad girl" at one time or another. But if you say you haven't, well you are in a very small minority of both males and females. And I have to say that I agree 100% that everyone should be respectful of everyone else. I am. And I can tell that you are, too. And I can see that you are educated. You only dangled one preposition in your last post /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

But it's not laughable to think that women date guys depending on their ability to earn money. I think that if given a choice of dating two equal people, except that one has a good job and the other is a deadbeat, anyone with any intelligence will date the person with the ability to earn money. I think that you mistook this statement. I never said that you were looking for someone to support you. In my statement, I said we have the ability to support you. Not that you were looking to be supported. And if there is an insinuation that I think you are looking for a supporter, I apologize. In fact, most women I know are not looking for a man to support them. And in your defense, I think that there are far more decent available women than decent available men.

I agree with you also that men should treat females as "ladies". I do. I was raised to do this and it bothers me to see men who don't. Again, though, this is not totally a male problem (IMO). I see females all the time who tolerate men who treat them like dogs. And when they break up with one, they go out and get another one just like their previous boyfriend. So men who do this get accustomed to women putting up with it and have no motivation to change. I'm not saying that I agree with disrespect, but that there needs to be reason for these men to change their behavior. So I don't think that all males should get the blame for this.

Let me close by saying that you are right. I do not have a woman's perspective on this issue. I never claimed to. I am giving the male perspective, and hope to learn from women like you and Wendy, who have the female perspective of why it is so hard to find decent women in the environment that I love. And with women who have similar interests as I do. And I appreciate your forthright opinion on the subject.

There are good people (men and women) who frequent pool rooms. And I think that if you and Wendy enjoy the game as you say, then you shouldn't let a few bad apples spoil your ability to enjoy the game that you love. If we keep the "good apples" playing, maybe there is hope for us all.

MosconiJr

DebraLiStarr
02-09-2005, 05:06 PM
GeraldG Wrote:
THAT was disrespectful. Are you saying that men are incapable of seeing a woman's perspective? Isn't that a bit of a stereotype?

<font color="blue">The mere fact that you picked apart my post the way that you did shows that I am correct in my assessment. So I guess you fit the stereotype. Not my fault. </font color>

nAz
02-09-2005, 05:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr> I do see your point though and again, nAz can attest to this, I wasn't looking for anyone. <hr /></blockquote>

BCL ;P



yes wendy was never looking for anyone @ a pool hall, but like most women i know she thought she met a nice guy and decided to go out on a date when asked by those loser, /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif things went well at first and then DOWN hill rather fast. how ever she will always have a BCL to bounce back on.

MosconiJr
02-09-2005, 05:39 PM
Hey CueChick,

Do you still play? Hopefully I will see you at the $10,000 added Viking tournament in Atlanta Feb 26 &amp; 27.

MosconiJr

GeraldG
02-09-2005, 05:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr> GeraldG Wrote:
THAT was disrespectful. Are you saying that men are incapable of seeing a woman's perspective? Isn't that a bit of a stereotype?

<font color="blue">The mere fact that you picked apart my post the way that you did shows that I am correct in my assessment. So I guess you fit the stereotype. Not my fault. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Not at all, Debra. I simply pointed out things I didn't agree with. Just because I see your point doesn't mean I agree with it and just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I can't see your perspective. I have nothing against you personally...I don't know you at all. I suspect that if I did know you I'd probably like you. I like people who aren't afraid to express an opinion. That certainly doesn't mean I would agree with you on everything you said.

9 Ball Girl
02-09-2005, 06:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr> 9bg,

You must run an internet porn site, or sell illegal substances. You post to the internet forums each day, and frequent the pool rooms all night (until recently, anyway). So if you have a significant bank roll at all, how do you do it????? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MosconiJr <hr /></blockquote>No internet porn site, I post when I get a chance while I'm at work and when I did frequent the pool rooms, I'd be home by about 1-2 AM. Like everyone else, I have a mediocre bank roll and I've noticed that the more I stay away from a pool room, the more significant that bank roll becomes...

mksmith713
02-09-2005, 07:25 PM
This has been an interesting thread, to say the least.
While I agree, most men in pool rooms aren't worth meeting, I can't say that's true for ALL men.
Some of us are professionals who appreciate the complexity and intricacies of the game.
Not in the game for money or fame, I do enjoy tournament play as a means to test my knowledge vs my opponent.
Being in a pool hall, for me, is a way to hone my skills in preparation for such competition.
I'm not a young punk nor am I a drunk or druggie, though I've seen my share in several of the pool halls I frequent.
So, in contrast to popular belief, there are decent men in pool halls.
I'm a healthcare professional, single father and a gentleman.
If anything, the women I've met in pool hall are less than desirable, with loud filthy mouths, drinking to excess and generally trashy demeanors.
That's not only the girl friends of players, that's the female players themselves.
Granted, thse players are generally young, in the upper teens to early twenties range, but that no excuse.
Of all the tournaments I've played, and that's not very many, I've never had a single bad experience playing against another man.
Playing against women, every match has been a awful experience.
The bitching and complaining and general cattiness I've experienced playing women has made me not want to play against one ever again.

So, I guess the opposite is true as well.
No way in Hell a nice guy is going to meet a decent woman in a pool hall.

Of course, this is just my experience.

Keith Talent
02-09-2005, 08:33 PM
I don't think these pool hall mismatches have so much to do with money or phonies or anything like that, but just that women are attracted -- and shouldn't they be? -- wherever they are, by men who do something well, and with some flair.

And the guys who fit that description in a pool hall ... odds are they're gamblers, too ... and all that comes with that. It's about having style ... substance, you find out about later.

Bukowski had a few good lines on this ... something like this, as best I can remember it, though it doesn't specifically apply to mating OR pool halls:

Style is everything
It is preferable to do something safe with style
than something dangerous without it.
Doing something dangerous with style
is what I call art.
More men in prison have style
than men out of prison.
I've seen dogs with more style than men.
But not many dogs have style.
Cats have it with abundance.

Jesus had style, Ghandi, Garcia Lorca.
Style is way of doing, a way of being done ...

Donovan
02-09-2005, 08:43 PM
Interesting. Let's recap.

We have targeted a few generalizations; broke some barriers, hurt some feelings, taken advantage of the anonymity, and even played some angles. It sure sounds like we have all been in that sleazy pool hall (including myself as a listener) during "most" of this thread.

Kudos to the true feelings that were expressed and it really has been an interesting thread.

monkeydude20
02-09-2005, 10:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Yes! There aren't anywhere near enough of them!!!
Steve <hr /></blockquote>
Damn right my brotha.
Jk /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

BCgirl
02-10-2005, 12:07 AM
My goodness, MosconiJr, sounds like you just went through a bad break-up.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr>... You are typical of every female I have met in the pool room
... They go for the least stable guy that plays pool. <hr /></blockquote>
You know, we all (yes, boys and girls) have seen the girlfriends who wait for hours while their lame-ass boyfriend shoots pool with his buddies, or tosses her earnings away in a money game, with poor GF expected to sit meekly by, and wondered why on earth she'd put up with it. We've also seen boorish behaviour from both sexes, so no-one is exempt. But if either of these fit the profile of the majority of girls (or of the guys) in your local pool hall, you may want to consider moving to a better neighbourhood.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr>
Guys who play pool for a living have developed hard hearted attitudes about alot of things, and oft times girlfriends are one of those things.
<hr /></blockquote>
... along with the family, the bank manager, the dog, the local dealer, and loan shark ? I've met some real interesting characters along the way. But (guy or girl) you wouldn't want to meet some of them in a dark alley. Now, all players are not like that, but neither are they the poor misunderstood bunnies you describe. A hard hearted attitude comes from nothing other than a hard heart, not from a few hard knocks.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr>
We males who work, and can support a female, don't ever get noticed.

We love the game, but have other interests as well. But that doesn't matter to you females. It's all about the "bad boys".
<hr /></blockquote>
"And can support a female"? If you're not getting noticed by the nice, educated, cosmopolitan girls you're looking for, perhaps a less mediaeval attitude might help. And since when did guys wait to get noticed? Wall-flowers are soo sexy! Yes, I do know girls that just chase the bad guy, and I do know girls that just want to be supported. You won't find too many of the latter category in many pool halls, unless it's just a drug habit they need to support.


I'll be the last to colour everyone that plays pool with the same loser brush. I've met some of my closest and truest friends (of both sexes) in pool halls (and I hope to meet more). I've played in some great pool halls, where the owners contribute a lot to the profile of the game and do it great credit. I don't have any axe to grind because of some bad treatment from some ex boyfriend I met playing pool. But, at the same time, I'd never go actively looking for romance in a pool hall ( ... except ... maybe one /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif).

BCgirl

Vagabond
02-10-2005, 04:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr>

You must run an internet porn site, or sell illegal substances. You post to the internet forums each day, and frequent the pool rooms all night (until recently, anyway). So if you have a significant bank roll at all, how do you do it????? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MosconiJr <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Mosconi Jr,
No need to get on a personal attacks/ insulting mode.She did not insult u .Enjoy the debate /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

buddha162
02-10-2005, 05:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr>I don't date pool players anymore.<hr /></blockquote>

Really? Well, I don't date dart players or bowlers or ballet dancers, and I've had a harrowing experience with an amateur bass angler in the past so they're off the board as well.

Boy, do we make sense or what!?

-Roger

MosconiJr
02-10-2005, 06:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr>

You must run an internet porn site, or sell illegal substances. You post to the internet forums each day, and frequent the pool rooms all night (until recently, anyway). So if you have a significant bank roll at all, how do you do it????? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MosconiJr <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Mosconi Jr,
No need to get on a personal attacks/ insulting mode.She did not insult u .Enjoy the debate /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Vagabond,

I hope 9bg didn't take this the wrong way. I was joking and I hope she realized it (thus the graemlin). If it was taken the wrong way, or out of context I apologize. I respect her posts and I'm certainly aware that she would never have any of the jobs I mentioned.

MosconiJr

MosconiJr
02-10-2005, 06:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BCgirl:</font><hr> My goodness, MosconiJr, sounds like you just went through a bad break-up.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr>... You are typical of every female I have met in the pool room
... They go for the least stable guy that plays pool. <hr /></blockquote>
You know, we all (yes, boys and girls) have seen the girlfriends who wait for hours while their lame-ass boyfriend shoots pool with his buddies, or tosses her earnings away in a money game, with poor GF expected to sit meekly by, and wondered why on earth she'd put up with it. We've also seen boorish behaviour from both sexes, so no-one is exempt. But if either of these fit the profile of the majority of girls (or of the guys) in your local pool hall, you may want to consider moving to a better neighbourhood.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr>
Guys who play pool for a living have developed hard hearted attitudes about alot of things, and oft times girlfriends are one of those things.
<hr /></blockquote>
... along with the family, the bank manager, the dog, the local dealer, and loan shark ? I've met some real interesting characters along the way. But (guy or girl) you wouldn't want to meet some of them in a dark alley. Now, all players are not like that, but neither are they the poor misunderstood bunnies you describe. A hard hearted attitude comes from nothing other than a hard heart, not from a few hard knocks.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr>
We males who work, and can support a female, don't ever get noticed.

We love the game, but have other interests as well. But that doesn't matter to you females. It's all about the "bad boys".
<hr /></blockquote>
"And can support a female"? If you're not getting noticed by the nice, educated, cosmopolitan girls you're looking for, perhaps a less mediaeval attitude might help. And since when did guys wait to get noticed? Wall-flowers are soo sexy! Yes, I do know girls that just chase the bad guy, and I do know girls that just want to be supported. You won't find too many of the latter category in many pool halls, unless it's just a drug habit they need to support.


I'll be the last to colour everyone that plays pool with the same loser brush. I've met some of my closest and truest friends (of both sexes) in pool halls (and I hope to meet more). I've played in some great pool halls, where the owners contribute a lot to the profile of the game and do it great credit. I don't have any axe to grind because of some bad treatment from some ex boyfriend I met playing pool. But, at the same time, I'd never go actively looking for romance in a pool hall ( ... except ... maybe one /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif).

BCgirl <hr /></blockquote>
Hey BCgirl,

Great post. You opened my eyes to some opinions of mine that may need second looks. Yes, most of my time is spent in pool rooms that cater mostly to action, and the charachters that embrace this facet of the game. I see this side of the game more than the social aspect at some other more upscale rooms in town. I guess I do need to frequent some of the other, more desirable rooms. A change of scenery may do me good.

MosconiJr

9 Ball Girl
02-10-2005, 07:22 AM
Hi Vagabond! Hey, thanks for having my back but I didn't take it as an insult. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rich R.
02-10-2005, 07:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr> I respect her posts and I'm certainly aware that she would never have any of the jobs I mentioned.
<hr /></blockquote>
So you haven't seen her web site????? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

9 Ball Girl
02-10-2005, 08:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> So you haven't seen her web site????? /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>Doh! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

SpiderMan
02-10-2005, 08:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote buddha162:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr>I don't date pool players anymore.<hr /></blockquote>

Really? Well, I don't date dart players or bowlers or ballet dancers, and I've had a harrowing experience with an amateur bass angler in the past so they're off the board as well.

Boy, do we make sense or what!?

-Roger
<hr /></blockquote>

Watch out for tofu eaters! I dated one of those and later learned that she was married. I'd hate to go through that again.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
02-10-2005, 08:46 AM
Link, please!

SpiderMan
02-10-2005, 09:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mksmith713:</font><hr> While I agree, most men in pool rooms aren't worth meeting, I can't say that's true for ALL men.
Some of us are professionals who appreciate the complexity and intricacies of the game.
Not in the game for money or fame, I do enjoy tournament play as a means to test my knowledge vs my opponent.
Being in a pool hall, for me, is a way to hone my skills in preparation for such competition.
I'm not a young punk nor am I a drunk or druggie, though I've seen my share in several of the pool halls I frequent.
So, in contrast to popular belief, there are decent men in pool halls.
I'm a healthcare professional, single father and a gentleman.
If anything, the women I've met in pool hall are less than desirable, with loud filthy mouths, drinking to excess and generally trashy demeanors.
That's not only the girl friends of players, that's the female players themselves.
Granted, thse players are generally young, in the upper teens to early twenties range, but that no excuse.
Of all the tournaments I've played, and that's not very many, I've never had a single bad experience playing against another man.
Playing against women, every match has been a awful experience.
The bitching and complaining and general cattiness I've experienced playing women has made me not want to play against one ever again.

So, I guess the opposite is true as well.
No way in Hell a nice guy is going to meet a decent woman in a pool hall.

Of course, this is just my experience.
<hr /></blockquote>

Unfortunately, your experience mirrors most. I go to the poolroom to play pool, not to meet women. Poolroom patrons are not in general the cream of the crop, socially. Compared to women I'd meet at the ski resort, on a dive trip, at the bookstore, or everyday at my job, female poolroom patrons will more likely be smokers, alcoholics, recreational drug users, and/or relationship abusers. They can score in their chosen environment because they are also a clear minority.

I also think the percentage of poolhall women you wouldn't take home to mom probably exceeds that of the men, for no reason other than that poolrooms are still male-dominated. Perhaps this means that a more representative cross-section of men will be in attendance, while mostly the cruder female examples.

No insult intended to the women who post here, as I have met several of them and they do not fit the above description. Nor do most of us (men participating here) likely fit the gambler/loser stereotype.

What we must realize is that the typical poolroom patron is not a poster on the BD website. This group is a very small clique, a few hundred out of millions. Walk into a crowded poolroom on Saturday night, and chances are you won't find anyone who has ever heard of the CCB.

SpiderMan

DebraLiStarr
02-10-2005, 11:08 AM
<font color="blue">Quote DebraLiStarr:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't date pool players anymore.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Really? Well, I don't date dart players or bowlers or ballet dancers, and I've had a harrowing experience with an amateur bass angler in the past so they're off the board as well.

Boy, do we make sense or what!?

-Roger

</font color>

Well the last pool player I dated wrecked my car and lied about it. The pool player before that stole some of my jewelry. I dated this one guy once or twice and while I was playing a match in my 9 ball league I noticed my purse was missing. My date actually called the police for me and everything. When the cops showed up, 5 or 6 people told them that my date had taken a purse out to the parking lot. We found my purse in the trunk of his car, and my credit cards in his back pocket. Now how many bad signs does one girl need? I'm sure its probably just a coincidence that they were all pool players, but hey, a girl has to watch out for herself, right? So I don't look for love in pool halls or at work anymore. All of the above relationships altered my social life in one way or the other (mutual friends picking sides) and that's no fun and uncomfortable for everyone. So for me it just works best to leave the pool players to some of those horrible women mosconijr spoke of. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MosconiJr
02-10-2005, 11:22 AM
Spiderman,

True statement. My problem is, I don't ski or dive. And all the girls at work are hitched. And about 90% of my social time is spent in the pool room. But, as I said, I do plan to expand my horizons.

And I do think that the people who post here aren't the typical pool room patrons.

MosconiJr

Scott Lee
02-10-2005, 03:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr> Spiderman,

True statement. My problem is, I don't ski or dive. And all the girls at work are hitched. And about 90% of my social time is spent in the pool room. But, as I said, I do plan to expand my horizons.

MosconiJr <hr /></blockquote>

You might try looking in some "good" places...church, the local library, or try volunteering in your community (there are MANY nice women of all ages working as volunteers).
I love the pool room too, but you're limiting your chances there.

Scott Lee

Popcorn
02-10-2005, 03:05 PM
It is what made my wife quit playing in tournaments, (she could play and most often finished in the money winning many, so it was nothing to do with sour grapes). Most were just plain trash and not the kind of people she wanted to associate with. She played on several tours way back and played with girls like Lori John, Gerri Titcome, Gloria Walker who are very nice, but it is just to let you know I am not talking about bars or anything. Many were more like the Vivian Villarreal for example and not anyone you would want to have much to do with professionally or personally. There seems to be a perception among many women players they have to act cool or tough to be pool played. Many are pretty sickening to watch and listen to.

mksmith713
02-10-2005, 03:31 PM
Kinda' makes you wanna go over to the area of the pool room where the snooker and 3 cushion tables are.
Though nearly all of the players over there are transplanted from other countries, at least they have manners and are respectful.
I've never met a middle eastern or asian player who made me want to shove a cue down their throat.
I wish the same was true of my fellow countrymen and women.

Popcorn
02-10-2005, 04:21 PM
I don't even want to get into war stories but, I have been around pool for a long time and I've never seen the kind of petty and just plain mean childish behavior among men that I saw with the women. Two men can play a $10,000 set and shake hands and that's it, women seem to take everything personal. I drew a women in a tournament once and beat her 11 to 1 and she began calling me names and said I was a creep for not letting her shoot more. My wife beat a woman in a tournament who she had ridden to the tournament with and the girl got so mad she left without saying anything. My wife had to rent a car to get home it was like 300 miles. Another time she beat, ( in a pretty big tournament) a girl who kicked over her case as she left and the lesbian girl friend spit at her and told her to watch her back. My wife had gotten her on three fouls during the match and the girl went nuts. My wife was a stunning German girl, (still is in my opinion), well mannered, well spoken and cultured. She just happened to become a good player hanging around with myself and other players but she quit and is happy just play with friends now and then around the pool room. I was glad she got away from that creepy girl tournament environment. That was a while ago, maybe it's different now, but I tend to doubt it.

cuechick
02-10-2005, 06:05 PM
I have played on 3 women's tours, Newt, CAT and currently SEAL, and Have never had a bad experience in terms of sportsmanship. I think it has changed, and I have met all kinds of women, from architects to housewives.
It is an eclectic pool world, and the projected negative stereotypes I am reading described here, as in Spiders post, may have more to do with the types of rooms your hanging in, than the types of peeps that play in general.

Popcorn
02-10-2005, 06:45 PM
I sincerely hope it's better.

Rich R.
02-11-2005, 04:22 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I sincerely hope it's better. <hr /></blockquote>
Popcorn, my wife and I attend many women's tournaments and we have never seen the behavior you described. I have to assume things have changed drastically, since your wife was playing competitively.

mksmith713
02-11-2005, 08:50 AM
Rich, check out Bill &amp; Billies in Arnold when they have tournaments.
You want to talk about "Catty" women.
OMG!!!!!!!!!
My son and I just started playing in a weekly 8 Ball tournament there (roughly a month ago).
There are several women who play in this tournament in different skill levels.
I played in the lower skill level the first time I played, not knowing where I belonged.
I won the tournament and had to suffer the wrath of this female to the point that they kicked me out of this level to a higher level.
Hey, that's cool with me. Until now, I'd never been tested in competition, so this is all new for me.
Well, the next level up rates players using a ranking system similar to APA's with everyone starting at a 3.
They usually stay a 3 until they win a tournament, then they get bumped up.
There are a few level 4's and 1 level 5 player.
Well, I was playing in this tournament as a 3 and I was playing pretty well.
After playing against this woman, she complained to the TD that I shouldn't be a level 3.
She practically drove him nuts with the bitching and complaining.
The TD bumped me up to a 4 in the middle of a tournament.
IN THE MIDDLE of the tournament.
As a result of her complaining.
Granted, I think I play better than a 3 and I think, if there's going to be a handicap, it should be fair.
It really doesn't matter to me. I'm not into the game for $$$$.
It's all about good friendly competition and quality time out with my son.
But a TD should not be swayed into making a serious decision like this as a result of complaining by a Pain in the Ass".

I know of a few women that I can honestly say I shooting pool playing with.
Unfortuantely, theey're married and this thread doesn't relate to them......

SpiderMan
02-11-2005, 09:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cuechick:</font><hr> I have played on 3 women's tours, Newt, CAT and currently SEAL, and Have never had a bad experience in terms of sportsmanship. I think it has changed, and I have met all kinds of women, from architects to housewives.
It is an eclectic pool world, and the projected negative stereotypes I am reading described here, as in Spiders post, may have more to do with the types of rooms your hanging in, than the types of peeps that play in general.
<hr /></blockquote>

Cuechick,

You are obviously a better class of person, and also associate with a better class of people, than the subject of our rantings. But you are not the mainstream poolroom patron.

It's probably not the types of rooms, as I frequent any and all. I'd guess it's just more a contrasting of the "average" female (or male, depending on your viewpoint) poolhall patron to a "cream of the social crop" that may be more representative of tour players or participants on this board. With few exceptions, and despite ideological differences, I have felt that I would genuinely enjoy an acquaintance with the players I have encountered online. In my travels, direct experience has confirmed this many times over.

But I'd still maintain that (today) the average female poolroom patron is cruder than the average female you meet elsewhere, and perhaps cruder than the average male poolroom patron (for reasons I noted in my other post). I'm certain that most of those types don't make it on tour (they aren't even necessarily decent players), nor are they likely to be participants on this board. I have never felt that my peers here, though there are some unique personalities, were socially disadvantaged.

Even in league or weekly tournament play, I have had the pleasure(?) to experience an incredible assortment of alcoholics, bullies, cheats, and crybabies. Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying they were a majority - the majority of league players were actually a cut above general poolroom rabble. What I'm saying is that, compared to maybe 1% or 2% of chronic misfits that you might encounter in "real life", I probably saw 5 times that in the pool leagues, and higher prevalence in the general pool subculture. Most of these were alcoholics and/or candidates for anger management, but others were just outright fringe elements. I can't imagine spending my life with any of the above.

SpiderMan

Rich R.
02-11-2005, 09:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mksmith713:</font><hr> Rich, check out Bill &amp; Billies in Arnold when they have tournaments.
You want to talk about "Catty" women.
OMG!!!!!!!!! <hr /></blockquote>
My wife and I have been to Bill &amp; Billies quite a number of times. I really like that place and wish it were a little closer to where I live.

However, we have always been there for the regional tournaments and not their local weekly tournaments. I shouldn't say I have never seen problems with the regional players, but the problems are few and far between. Also, the disputes always seem to involve the same players. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
After a while, you get to know who they are.

Popcorn
02-11-2005, 11:05 AM
You won't always see it and behavior that would be observed be a spectator may seem OK at a quick glance. It does not have to consist of outright acting out that would be evident. Being part of the event though and close up beyond the eyes of the public can be very different and something that can be a very unpleasant experience. I would say if your wife or daughter were spit at and threatened by what appeared to be violent lesbians for playing a safe you would not like it either. There is no money in it and besides, it is supposed to be fun. Even the smallest behavior like this makes you say to yourself, "Screw this, I have better things to do with my time".

Rich R.
02-11-2005, 11:47 AM
Popcorn, all I can say is that the NEWT and the CAT regional tours never tolerated that type of behavior.

BCgirl
02-11-2005, 07:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mksmith713:</font><hr> The TD bumped me up to a 4 in the middle of a tournament. As a result of her complaining.
Granted, I think I play better than a 3 and I think, if there's going to be a handicap, it should be fair.
It really doesn't matter to me. I'm not into the game for $$$$. But a TD should not be swayed into making a serious decision like this as a result of complaining by a Pain in the Ass".<hr /></blockquote>
I've been in the same situation, with a guy complaining that I was playing stronger than my spot. I can't say that he was "bitchy" about it, more morose and whiny, but a few pro's and the TD came over to watch. I hadn't played in the tournament for a while, my game had improved, and I'd already voluntarily bumped myself up to a higher spot. But I have to say that I was a little disappointed that the concensus was that I was playing well for my spot, but not sufficiently so to warrant bumping up still further.

I do think that TD's should be free to bump people up, provided that a fair assessment of the player's ability is made, because it's just too common to see people enter as a B, who suddenly, and amazingly play at pro level in the later rounds. I've played in tournaments, where entering a handicapped event as a player without an established ranking is allowed, only if you agree that the TD can re-assess your spot later.

BCgirl

Rod
02-11-2005, 09:55 PM
Mark, pool players in general, especially in the lower ranks whine a lot, female and male. Get use to it. LOL However you admitted you think you play better than a 3 so, should be no problem, depending on the guide lines established by the TD.


[ QUOTE ]
I do think that TD's should be free to bump people up, provided that a fair assessment of the player's ability is made, because it's just too common to see people enter as a B, who suddenly, and amazingly play at pro level in the later rounds. <hr /></blockquote>

BC,

I think if the TD has established that guide line, then of course it's their option. However I think judging how one plays in one match is not a fair evaluation of their average play. Anyone can get hot for a match or two.

If a B level player later plays pro speed, he either didn't go to hustler school or he is busted. At any rate that is a large jump and it was anything but a smart move. Here, a TD should just kick them out of the tournament, not for playing good, for being a dumb bone head. LOL They got what they disserved.

What we do here, in a ranked tournament, where a player isn't ranked; is play them at the highest level. For instance if you're in a 6 and under tourney, you play the first week as a 6. Doesn't matter if your a 4 or 5, you play as a 6. That is the evaluation week. After, if the TD feels your a 5, then that's your rating. Granted it may not seem fair but it sure helps eliminate the constant whine by some pool players. If you're not in it for the money ( that line kills me sometimes) /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif then it shouldn't be a problem.

Rod

mksmith713
02-12-2005, 01:00 AM
It's not so much being bumped up.
I love the idea of people (TD) taking notice that I'm getting better.
But in the middle of the tournament?
Actually, it was after the third game of the quarter final match.
I had won 3 games to 2 when he came over and said I had been adjusted to a 4 and had to win one more game to advance.
Fortunately I had a good break, ran a few balls and played a real nice safety. The after trading safeties, I managed to make the last of my balls to advance.
The norm is for a player to get bumped ONLY after they have won a tournament.
In the end, it didn't really matter.
I lost to a 3 handicap, 3 games to 1.
Hmmm, maybe I should complain to the TD that this person should be rated a 5?........LOL

BCgirl
02-12-2005, 01:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Mark, pool players in general, especially in the lower ranks whine a lot, female and male. Get use to it. <hr /></blockquote> That's true, but some of the worst whining I've come across is by top regional players who use it as much for intimidation as anything else.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> However I think judging how one plays in one match is not a fair evaluation of their average play. Anyone can get hot for a match or two.<hr /></blockquote> In general, I'd agree. It is possible for a good player or teacher to fairly accurately assess a player's skill level based on shot selection, execution, etc, but your average local tournament TD may not have the knowledge, the eye, or the time make a sensible assessment.


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> If a B level player later plays pro speed, ... a TD should just kick them out of the tournament, ... for being a dumb bone head.<hr /></blockquote> Absolutely, although few TD's I've ever come across have had the backbone to do so.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> What we do here, in a ranked tournament, where a player isn't ranked; is play them at the highest level. For instance if you're in a 6 and under tourney, you play the first week as a 6. Doesn't matter if your a 4 or 5, you play as a 6. That is the evaluation week. After, if the TD feels your a 5, then that's your rating. Granted it may not seem fair but it sure helps eliminate the constant whine by some pool players. If you're not in it for the money ( that line kills me sometimes) /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif then it shouldn't be a problem.<hr /></blockquote> Yes, that's common. However, for people who can't guarantee to play regularly, they're just as likely to say "I can't win a game as a 6", and just not enter, because they don't know if they'll make it back anytime soon. For weaker players, it can be a really bad experience to give weight to a stronger player, go two and out without making a ball, on a day when they thought their game was on.

I don't think there's a single way to deal with setting handicaps that doesn't have some flaws. Just as you will always have the cheaters and whiners, you will, inevitably have people who are wronged. So long as the rules, for ranking, as well as playing, are open and evenly enforced, and favour the legitimate player over the cheat, it's pretty much the best you can do.

BCgirl

Popcorn
02-12-2005, 02:16 PM
Handicaps are tough and not really meant to make every game perfectly even, it can't be done.
I played in a weekly tournament a few months ago and you have to give games on the wire. My first match I played a guy I had to play a guy 9 to 3. He won the coin toss and ran the first three racks, just one of those things, I never shot. His next match he lost. You can't handicap based on someone playing a little over their head or getting a bunch of good rolls. And to be honest, if a player has a good night, why shouldn't they be allowed to win and not be criticized about it. The guy never wins and shows up every week to make his donation yet let him play good once and he is punished for it. To repeat myself, handicapping was never meant to make everything perfectly even, it can't be done, it just helps in making the matches a little more competitive and if a weaker player has a good night and catches some of the better players a little off he will win. I do believe though that the top players should have to play like champs to win. It is also funny the one's who complain the most are the best players, they just want to win without having to really play for it, while the guy who has never won even once, plays and never says a word most of the time.

mksmith713
02-12-2005, 02:42 PM
I still think it's kinda strange that they would change my rating in the middle of a match.
I was prepared to start the next match, had already lagged for the break, when the TD signals me and tells me I have to win one more game to win the previous match.
I'm sorry but that stinks of something more than fair play.
Just way to hinky to be legit.....

GeraldG
02-12-2005, 10:02 PM
I hate handicapped tournaments.

Rod
02-12-2005, 11:47 PM
No there isn't a single way, some work better than others. For people that want to play handicapped tournaments though, learn to deal with situations or changes. Whether it's being raised, sharked or whatever it is part of the learning cycle, deal with it. It is what makes a beginner intermidate or sometimes an advanced player grow at their skill. Don't whine, learn how to get past that stuff and just play the game.

I have and do know people that carry so much baggage it's a wonder they ever win a game. Pool is demanding and your mind can only deal with one thing. If you think about all that other stuff when you play in a tourney, league or even gambling, your doomed.

Rod