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nightcap
02-22-2005, 12:22 PM
Hi everyone.

I'm a new member. I played a lot of 8-ball in my youth, and now my neighbor has a table in his basement, so I'm getting back into this most addictive and frustrating game. I can't even believe how engaging the game has become. Sometimes it feels like sinking a shot is a life and death situation... I miss, and fall to my knees crying out in anguish, as if my firstborn had been slain. (Does anyone else have this problem?)

Anyway, my first question is about bank shots. My most regular opponent has learned to use them effectively, and I can't help but to notice how many options it opens up for him, now that he can use them with confidence. I would consider myself an intermediate level player, but I still can't shoot banks with confidence.

Any input?

Cane
02-22-2005, 01:07 PM
Hello nightcap and Welcome to CCB.

First, don't get so upset about a miss. Accept each shot and each result for what it is, just a situation and nothing more. Evaluate why you missed, don't criticize yourself for it, just correct the situation. In other words, don't say to yourself "Geez, I can never make that shot", because if you do, then trust me, you'll never make that shot consistently. Just say "OK, I missed that shot. Did I over cut it? Did I under cut it? Did I miss it because I didn't aim properly, or because I didn't compensate for squirt? OK, I see what happened, now I'll correct it." This can be done at the practice table MUCH easier than it can at the game table. Practice will hone your skills, playing gives you a place to show them off.

Banks... well, there are almost as many banking "systems" are there are kicking systems, aiming systems, carom systems, etc. Just find one that you can visualize easily and practice it. Banks do improve your chances by giving you more "ammunition" for the gun, but never play position for a bank if you can play position for a cut.

If you really want to improve your game, consider spending time with a qualified instructor. Many advanced players don't know how to teach you what they do, even though they may do it well. An instructor can teach you the how's and why's of the game and give you the tools to improve more quickly.

Most important, and it's taken my years to learn this, enjoy the game in every situation. If you'll become as obsessed with enjoying the game and many people become with winning the game, then you'll find yourself winning more often.

Later,
Bob

wolfdancer
02-22-2005, 01:51 PM
Welcome!!!
I doubt though that you are an intermediate player
Only beginning players fall to their knees and cry
intermediate players, scream and swear, while pushing
their opponents to the floor. And if you want to
improve beyond intermediate, you will have to offer up
your firstborn, as a sacrifice to the pool Gods.
Don't worry....as God told Abraham "lighten up, I was
only fooling"
God damn game is addictive though....before it realy takes hold,
and you find yourself breaking into your neighbors
house, to play....consider lawn bowling instead....

CarolNYC
02-23-2005, 03:40 AM
Hello,
[ QUOTE ]
I miss, and fall to my knees <hr /></blockquote>
Do you know why you missed? Find the answer to that,correct it -falling to your knees ,I hate say, wont help!

[ QUOTE ]
but I still can't shoot banks with confidence.
<hr /></blockquote>
Then Play safe until you can-personally, I would cut a ball in before I bank it-and anyone who has seen me play knows, when I bank a shot, the ball is in,Im not even looking if it went in-Im looking at my cueball and getting ready for my next shot!
Give it time-good luck!
Carol~kneeling is for praying /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif amongst other things /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

bsmutz
02-23-2005, 03:49 PM
I have tried to learn various banking systems but haven't had very good results. For me, what works the best is to just practice banking. Play games where all you do is bank or play banks and combos. Line the balls up down the middle of the table from head to foot and practice going down the line. Take ball in hand after each shot or try to get shape on the other side of the line and switch back and forth from one side of the table to the other. I have never spent a whole lot of time practicing banks but when I am on, all I need to do is look at the object ball and I can see the exact spot that I need to aim at to make the bank. This almost always amazes me because there are so many variables in play. Being able to see the spot and know at what speed to hit it just reinforces to me how powerful our brains really are. Even weird angle banks that require some kind of side english to make are just see and make.

GeraldG
02-23-2005, 09:45 PM
For me, banking is an option that is open to me if I'm in a tough spot. I don't play position for bank shots....and I try not to ever leave myself in a position where I have to bank a shot or kick at a ball. I practice banking, but I'd much rather cut than bank or kick. I have a friend that is an old Bank Pool player, though...and he is amazing with his banking.


As far as how to do it...there must be a hundred systems out there for banking. They all work to some degree, but I have not found them easy to learn or use in practice. For me banking is done by feel...lots of practice. After a while, you'll learn which shots are good candidates for a bank and which ones aren't and you'll deelop a feel for how to shoot them.

SecaucusFats
02-23-2005, 11:52 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nightcap:</font><hr>

Anyway, my first question is about bank shots. My most regular opponent has learned to use them effectively, and I can't help but to notice how many options it opens up for him, now that he can use them with confidence. I would consider myself an intermediate level player, but I still can't shoot banks with confidence.

Any input? <hr /></blockquote>

The first thing is to use the "angle in = angle out" as a guide. What this means is that when you shoot a bank with center ball, medium speed, natural roll, at whatever angle the object ball contacts the rail it will exit the rail at an equal angle. (This is not 100% exact because it does not take into account things like the condition of the cushions (are they playing long or short),the cloth (slow or fast), and / or humidity, but it does provide a reliable enough starting point.

Take a look at this shot:
START(
%AI4M8%PF5T3%UN7A9%VC5[1%W[0Z7%XN9A2

)END

The angle of reflection can be altered by speed, english, or both.

When using speed to alter the angle, the object ball should start out from a spot which is far enough ( roughly 6" or more) from the rail of contact so as to allow for the ball to develop natural roll (the ball is not sliding). Shooting softly will widen the angle, while shooting firmly will narrow the angle.

In the next WEI diagram A= Med Speed B= Firm C= Soft:
START(
%AI4M8%PF5T3%QZ6\1%RX0[8%S\9[7%UN7A9%VC5[1%W[0Z7%XN9A2%Y]2Z6
%ZN9A3%]X4Z6%^N9A4
)END

Using english on the cueball (center horizontal axis..no follow, no draw) will transfer a bit of the OPPOSITE english to the object ball and will also alter the angle even if you shoot all three shots previously diagrammed at the same (Medium Speed). Now go back to the second WEI diagram and A: is the same as before no english, med speed, B: is inside (right) english, C: is outside (left) english.

You can also combine English with speed to further adjust the angle and / or for position.

One method of calculating a bank which I find very easy to use is this:

Imagine, or use you cue to visualize a line from the center of the object ball which runs straight (perpendicular) to the long rail to the nose of the cushion (A)extend a line from (A) to the pocket in which you want to make the shot (B), now extend a line from the opposite side pocket to the object ball (C) note where lines (B) and (C) intersect and extend a line from that point straight(perpendicular)to the long rail (Point D). Mark point D with a cube of chalk (just for learning purposes as you can't do this in regular play). Shoot the object ball to point (D) with a nice med speed center ball hit (the black line is the line of aim), and it should go right in to the target pocket. See the WEI diagram:

START(
%AN6K4%PL5P9%QM9A6%RZ6\8%SZ7A8%TQ2A7%U[3[8%VN7C1%WN7D2%XN6J6
%YO9J9%Z[2A6%[Q9D3%\Q9I2%]Q6D3%^N7K5
)END

Here is a bank shot drill for you work on it till you are making 100% of the shots. Start on one side and make the first four (from the side pocket) cross side and the last three cross corner using ball in hand, no english, center ball, on each shot. If you miss reset all balls and start over. When you make all seven go to the other seven and repeat the process.

START(
%A^5O4%B`7O3%Cc1O4%De6O4%Ei1O4%Fk6O4%Gn0O4%IX0O4%J U1O4%KR7O4
%LP6O4%MM2O4%NI7O4%OG2O5%P_0S6%Us9O5%VA2O4
)END

Banking is more an art than a science. Eventually, (thru practice), one develops an eye and a feel for banks.

There's a lot more to banks (i.e.: the effects of draw and or follow, and more), but for now just work on the above. It will help you.

Feel free to PM me, or post here, if you have any questions.


Here is a link to the WEI Table:
Wei Table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/%7Ewei/pool/pooltable2.html)

For help with the WEI table:
WEI table help page (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2_help.html)

You need to have Macromedia Shockwave on your computer. It's a free download and there is a link to Macromedia on the WEI help page.

CarolNYC
02-24-2005, 03:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
just practice banking <hr /></blockquote>
Im sorry, but I dont know any banking system-there are too many factors when it comes to a bank and rails are one-some play short,some play long-if you can control your cueball a little more where you do not leave yourself with a bank would be a good thing, but if your opponent leaves you the shot, then the factors come in-depending on how your playing that day,rails,next object ball, and alot of other things, if you go for a bank,at least, try and play a double shot where you bank and leave the cueball for position on your next ball BUT also leaves you safe if you miss the bank,ya know what I mean?If you miss, at least your safe and if you make it, your on your next shot!
Good luck!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif