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Deeman2
02-23-2005, 08:24 AM
Last night, Deewoman was playing in a non BCA/APA women's pool league. Her opponent was going to kick at an eight hanging in the corner. She walked around and placed a piece of chalk where she wanted to hit with the cue ball and adjusted it a couple of times. Deewoman told her she couldn't use anything to mark the aim line. The girl missed the shot after Deewoman removed the chalk. The girl later called the leader of the league and was told it was o.k. as long as she didn't put the chalk on the table bed. She also said it was o.k. for them to mark the table surface with a moistened finger. Is this normal in bar pool? I mean you can actually mark out the table with spit? Ignoring the leaving of your DNA on the cloth, it this o.k. in most other non-sanctioned leagues? They say the rule is not specifically covered in the rules so I am teaching Deewoman to place a wallet on the rail to carom off of the next time she has a shot that won't go. I read the rules this morning and there is nothing against this.

Should Deewoman ask that they let this girl have the match? They didn't protest or anything over her removing the chalk. Deewoman won all four of her games (first time for her).

I just want some expert bar players opinions on this.

Deeman

Tom_In_Cincy
02-23-2005, 08:30 AM
Bars have the right to bastardize the rules. Anything to keep the paying customers happy and drinking.

SpiderMan
02-23-2005, 08:49 AM
I've never played in a bar "league" other than ones which used actual published rules. Are written rules for your league actually available, or is the league director just "publishing" them verbally as situations arise?

SpiderMan

Deeman2
02-23-2005, 08:58 AM
Spiderman,

Yep, they have a "sheet" of rules. It mostly contains references to how to get thrown out of the league, fighting, unbecomeing conduct, etc. The few written rules they have are when called, responded to with, "We don't call that here." Silly, I know, but that's the case. I'll bring a copy to PettyPoint and you can have a good laugh. Ball in hand is about the only rule I see that is common with most accepted rules but many of the girls don't really understand the full concept of a correct hit. You know, anything gets a rail and an argument may ensue.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Deeman

Deeman

Wally_in_Cincy
02-23-2005, 09:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> ... She walked around and placed a piece of chalk where she wanted to hit with the cue ball... <hr /></blockquote>

Most people that play in a league like that are not smart enough to do that. I've never seen anybody do that in a bar atmosphere.

DeeWoman should not feel too bad. The lady would have missed the kick anyway /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

randyg
02-23-2005, 09:46 AM
Everything sounds normal to me....SPF-randyg

Troy
02-23-2005, 09:51 AM
Since she's playing in a BCA league, the BCA rles should apply.
See "3.43 ILLEGAL MARKING
If a player intentionally marks the table in any way (including the placement of chalk) to assist in executing the shot, it is a foul."

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> Last night, Deewoman was playing in a non BCA/APA women's pool league. Her opponent was going to kick at an eight hanging in the corner. She walked around and placed a piece of chalk where she wanted to hit with the cue ball and adjusted it a couple of times. Deewoman told her she couldn't use anything to mark the aim line. The girl missed the shot after Deewoman removed the chalk. The girl later called the leader of the league and was told it was o.k. as long as she didn't put the chalk on the table bed. She also said it was o.k. for them to mark the table surface with a moistened finger. Is this normal in bar pool? I mean you can actually mark out the table with spit? Ignoring the leaving of your DNA on the cloth, it this o.k. in most other non-sanctioned leagues? They say the rule is not specifically covered in the rules so I am teaching Deewoman to place a wallet on the rail to carom off of the next time she has a shot that won't go. I read the rules this morning and there is nothing against this.

Should Deewoman ask that they let this girl have the match? They didn't protest or anything over her removing the chalk. Deewoman won all four of her games (first time for her).

I just want some expert bar players opinions on this.

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman2
02-23-2005, 10:13 AM
Yep, Sad is it not? Randy, I look forward to meeting you at one of the BCA events in the next few weeks.

Deeman

Deeman2
02-23-2005, 10:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Since she's playing in a BCA league, the BCA rles should apply.
See "3.43 ILLEGAL MARKING
If a player intentionally marks the table in any way (including the placement of chalk) to assist in executing the shot, it is a foul."

Troy
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Troy,
Naw, notice I said non-BCA. This is the only league in town that is not a sanctioned league to my knowledge but it's the only one she could get into that was all ladies. Otherwise, we would have brought out our BCA Rules book. It does speak well for only playing in BCA or APA type leagues though.</font color>

Deeman
can't decide if this is a pool league or beer drinking contest... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SecaucusFats
02-23-2005, 10:29 AM
I think the key here is that as you stated, "it is a non-BCA/APA league", so the rules are whatever cockamamie bar rules they choose to use. Of course the rules can be amended on the spot by the home team to suit their needs, and / or, state of inebriation.

I'm willing to bet that 95% of the players on that league don't have even a passing acquaintance with BCA, APA or any other formal rules. It's the same just about everywhere and that is the reason why I no longer play in bar leagues.

BTW, when the owner of my local pub wanted to start a weekly 9 Ball tournament, he asked me to get the rules for him. I chose BCA rules. Some people grumbled but eventually everybody got on board with the program and now the tournament roster is always full.

jjinfla
02-23-2005, 12:56 PM
Quote "Is this normal in bar pool?" Unquote

Normal? Bar Pool? Oxymoron maybe. Mutually exclusive terms.

One thing I have learned over the years is that NOTHING is normal in Bar Pool. You go there. They tell you the rules. And you play by them. Just be thankful they don't wait until after you shoot for them to tell you the rules.
And of course they may change from night to night. Depends on how drunk the owner is.

But the APA did change that rule this year and it is perfectly okay in the APA to mark the rail, but not the cushion.

Jake

Deeman2
02-23-2005, 01:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote jjinfla:</font><hr> Quote "Is this normal in bar pool?" Unquote

Normal? Bar Pool? Oxymoron maybe. Mutually exclusive terms.

One thing I have learned over the years is that NOTHING is normal in Bar Pool. You go there. They tell you the rules. And you play by them. Just be thankful they don't wait until after you shoot for them to tell you the rules.
And of course they may change from night to night. Depends on how drunk the owner is.

But the APA did change that rule this year and it is perfectly okay in the APA to mark the rail, but not the cushion.

Jake <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Jake,

Thanks, we don't have APA here but I'll carry a felt tipped pen the next time we play in one.

Deeman </font color>

Chopstick
02-23-2005, 01:58 PM
I played APA in pool halls and in bars. There's no marking like that allowed.

dg-in-centralpa
02-23-2005, 06:04 PM
Deeman2- I play in bar leagues and can't remember anyone doing this. We do have a published set of rules and regs. I think if anyone would mark a spot, no one would say a thing.

DG

randyg
02-23-2005, 06:40 PM
DEEMAN: See you soon. Scott has said some very nice things about you.....SPF-randyg

Troy
02-23-2005, 08:01 PM
My mistake... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif I completely passed over the "non".
The main reason I quit bar pool years ago was all the diffrerent "rules" people could pull from their ... "hat".

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr>
<font color="blue"> Troy,
Naw, notice I said non-BCA. This is the only league in town that is not a sanctioned league to my knowledge but it's the only one she could get into that was all ladies. Otherwise, we would have brought out our BCA Rules book. It does speak well for only playing in BCA or APA type leagues though.</font color>

Deeman
can't decide if this is a pool league or beer drinking contest... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Rod
02-23-2005, 08:21 PM
Deeman,

I think I've seen most everything so this type of stuff is most likely ok. Out of curiousity, are the rules scratched out on a sheet of paper? LOL

Rod

Deeman2
02-24-2005, 06:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Deeman,

I think I've seen most everything so this type of stuff is most likely ok. Out of curiousity, are the rules scratched out on a sheet of paper? LOL <font color="blue"> On toilet papar... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif</font color>

Rod <hr /></blockquote>

As she won, it's not a big deal but I just had not seen this in league play. DeeWoman won all four of her matches that night and CARRIED our BCA team last night so all is well in the world anyway. I did watch a scoop jump shot that same night and noe one blinked an eye so we just have to get used to different standards down here.

Hey, it's all in fun, right?

Deeman

SpiderMan
02-24-2005, 08:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr>
I did watch a scoop jump shot that same night and noe one blinked an eye so we just have to get used to different standards down here. Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Give us a break, Dee, it has nothing to do with being "down here". Local bar rules can get pretty inbred anywhere in the country. Surely you remember "up there" at River City Billiards in Memphis, when it was considered perfectly OK to crawl completely up on the table on hands and knees to take a shot at the far end? Even the scoop-shooters would probably howl at that "down here" /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, I do think I witnessed the ultimate inbred bar rules a month or two ago at Spankee's Thursday tournament in Dallas. They don't know anything about push shots and double hits, and I saw several people "play safe" by using the tip to "herd" the cueball along a crooked path to hide it /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SpiderMan

Deeman2
02-24-2005, 08:45 AM
Spiderman,

You got me there partner....I was one of the major table crawlers in the joint. However, money games had their own set of rules in that era. All shots were push out, jump cues had not been invented and everyone knew Jack couldn't climb up on a table!

Funny thing, last night I had the butt of my cue bump into a beer cooler (standing, not way to move it). I opened the door and held it with my elbow while shooting. You just can't get that type of experience everywhere! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Deeman

poolturtle
02-24-2005, 11:42 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You just can't get that type of experience everywhere!
<hr /></blockquote>

I played in one bar back home that crammed a table in a spot so small, you can't get a full backswing on any side but the end facing the dance floor. On top of that, one of the support beams for the building was about 2ft away from the table near one end. ever try shooting a jacked up follow shot?????

Deeman2
02-24-2005, 12:05 PM
Poolturtle:

You are hearby formally invited to the PettyPoint Expo on March 19th to challenge me to a "who should pay table time" event. I have cleared this with the proper sacntioning bodies and the rules will be clearly written. Bring your best game as there will be blood in the water....
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
Deeman