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tateuts
02-24-2005, 12:43 PM
Dick,

I am being offered a cue - a Palmer Model J - from someone I trade with. He was advised that this was one of your cues. Most of the Model J's had a standard small window butt. This cue has a solid piece of ebony for the buttsleve. It's a pretty heavy (21 ounce) cue.

Can you tell me, did you own such a cue and was it special ordered by you this way from Palmer?

Would appreciate any help and I will P.M. you as well.

Thanks,

Chris Tate

MrLucky
02-24-2005, 12:58 PM
I have a original Palmer my uncle gave me for my birthday in 1964 I'd like to email you some pics of it perhaps you could also give me some info? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

tateuts
02-24-2005, 01:24 PM
Of course, I would be happy to. I will PM you with my e-mail address. I really like collecting as many photo's as I can find of Palmers and Paradise cues to help ID them.

Chris

DickLeonard
02-24-2005, 03:45 PM
I did have a ebony Palmer that was on BilliardsCue.Com it was a little butt heavy. I am busy I will post more later.####

tateuts
02-24-2005, 03:54 PM
Dick,

Thanks - that's the one. It's changed hands since then. I am mainly interested to know if you know if the ebony buttsleeve was ordered from Palmer that way. It looks to me like it was changed out by someone at some point.

Any info would be greatly appreciated - thanks much.

Chris

Barbara
02-24-2005, 04:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> I did have a ebony Palmer that was on BilliardsCue.Com it was a little butt heavy. I am busy I will post more later.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Geez, weren't all Palmers butt heavy?

Barbara

DickLeonard
02-24-2005, 06:35 PM
Its ebony was reversed so that the weight was nearer the joint, once the cue was sent on its way there was no stopping it. It played great for nineball, it didn't have the butt end that went with the j. It was more a simple ebony butt end. That has to be about 35 years old now.####

tateuts
02-24-2005, 08:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Its ebony was reversed so that the weight was nearer the joint, once the cue was sent on its way there was no stopping it. It played great for nineball, it didn't have the butt end that went with the j. It was more a simple ebony butt end. That has to be about 35 years old now.#### <hr /></blockquote>

That's about right, about 35 years old.

Did you obtain the cue new? Do you think the butt was factory or someone changed it out?

A lot of collectors think Szamboti made these forearms and he made some, but most were made by Burton Spain. I sent photo's of my "J" (not this one) to Joel Hercek and he identified it as a Spain forearm.

The current owner still plays the cue - but with a Predator shaft! Gotta love it.

Chris

JimS
02-24-2005, 08:21 PM
Hi Dick,

I've got a Sailor cue, made by Frank Stellman in Racine Wi and I'm getting a new shaft made by him so I'll have a spare.

I talked on the phone with him and he seems to be quite a character. I'm just curious if you had any "Sailor" stories. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

His cue hits very strong....imo.

Thanks, Jim

DickLeonard
02-25-2005, 07:36 AM
Tateuts that is the original butt, I never like glitz and glitter just solid cues. Petey Balner was a friend and would take care of my cue wishes. I have always ranked him over any cuemaker of his time. The only thing was he was into making money more than he was into making cues. Most of his cues were made by workers.

I read somewhere that he and Petey Margo sold their movie rental business for 22 million. That was many years ago.####

MrLucky
02-25-2005, 07:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> I did have a ebony Palmer that was on BilliardsCue.Com it was a little butt heavy. I am busy I will post more later.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Geez, weren't all Palmers butt heavy?

Barbara <hr /></blockquote> <font color="red">Sounds like some of the woman I've known! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DickLeonard
02-25-2005, 07:44 AM
Barbara if you use ebony in your butts it is hard to reduce the back weight. If you use ebony veneer it might be possible to reduce the weight in the back.

Barbara being butt heavy is good especially for women.
The pear shape body figure according to Science is the best. It takes all the strain off the heart. They out live all other body shapes.####

DickLeonard
02-25-2005, 07:48 AM
Jim I don't have any Sailor stories Joe Canton would mention the Sailor but that would make him 85 or more.####

DickLeonard
02-25-2005, 07:49 AM
Petey said that Szamboti made the collar.####

tateuts
02-25-2005, 08:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr> I have a original Palmer my uncle gave me for my birthday in 1964 I'd like to email you some pics of it perhaps you could also give me some info? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>



Mr. Lucky,

Well, you are lucky! And you have one heck of a great family!

It's a one of a kind special order, looks like you said, 1964 style joint right after he left Paradise. This cue could easily be confused for a Paradise - is the joint thread 5/16 x 18?

This is a nice, historic cue. The type of insert in the shaft and thin piloted section of the shaft joint dates the cue to pre-first catalog.

The photo's are a little dark but the model 11 used a beautiful piece of Brazilian rosewood which is basically a dark reddish color and is sometimes confused for Macassar ebony. The joint collar mother of pearl is similar to the model 11 but a little different.

Anyway, the buttsleeve is a take off on the model 9. He used the same components including the rings which I believe are aluminum, but eliminated the window using ebony.

I am going to send you a little later photo's of my model 11 and model 9, along with some photo's of very early palmer/paradise joints, so you can compare them to your beautiful cue.

Chris

MrLucky
02-25-2005, 08:45 AM
<font color="red"> Thanks ! You have mail I have some other questions regarding this cue! I wish I had taken one of Georges Cues that were for sale when I met him, actually I am trying to buy some of Basils cues his daughter went to school with me and she has them now and does not play! (if I only knew then what what I know now! LOL!) Peace and thanks again! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

tateuts
02-25-2005, 09:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Petey said that Szamboti made the collar.#### <hr /></blockquote>

That's good to know. This was about the time that Spain hung it up for awhile. It will be fun comparing it to my other "J". I would sincerely like to send you a photo (or something) and get a letter from you regarding the cue's history.

all the best,

Chris

tateuts
02-25-2005, 10:53 PM
Dick,

I imagine I paid a little more for it than you did. It's been brought back to life by Jim Buss with a hand worked oil finish and the two shafts, $1800.

Chris

DickLeonard
02-26-2005, 07:42 PM
Chris I think that is a fair price for a cue that hits great. I don't know about the predator shaft but the old Palmer shafts played great.####