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ras314
02-27-2005, 07:06 PM
How do you replace a threaded ferrule? Is it possible to turn the thing down to .312" and put on a thru hole ferrule? Or can you re thread the dowel and use another threaded ferrule? Compression die or do the threads have to be ground?

Like to know what is usually done before I mess up someones good shaft.

Cueless Joey
02-27-2005, 07:16 PM
Heat up the old ferrule to melt the glue.
Spin the shaft on the lathe, apply pressure on the ferrule with a piece of leather (make sure you use a collet to not ruin your shaft, one inside the spindle and one on the chuck) .
Imo good cuemakers use live threading tool to thread the tenon for ferrules, unless they have very good dies ( not one of those alumimum compression dies which ruin the tenon).
The tenon shoud be around .285" or so with an unthreaded shoulder ( around .312" by .187/.200 long )with total lenght around a little short of the bottom of the cap of the ferrule).
All this assuming your threaded ferrule has a 5/16 18 threads and a cap.

ras314
02-27-2005, 08:27 PM
Cueless, thanks for the reply.

The lathe I am using is the Unique Products, Inc "cue companion". So far I've been using house cues to learn on and it seems to handle warped cues with no damage to them. The compression die with the kit is steel, wouldn't think aluminum would work at all.

All the capped ferrules I see in the Atlas catalog are 5/16 X 18 tapped full length, so I'm a little confused about the shoulder. It sounds like different cue maker use different arrangements so replacing ferrules may be a hassle.

Think I'll try drilling one of the bar cues out for a dowel to replace the tenon and thread it just to see how that procedure works. Then I guess I'll try different glues to see how heating ferrules works. Nice to have some real cheap cues to play with. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

stickman
02-27-2005, 08:39 PM
I keep planning to get a tenon threader, but haven't done it yet. I like to turn the ferrules off as Joey suggested, but occasionally I have to turn one down. I then slowly pick out the remaining pieces of ferrule and epoxy out of the threads with a pen knife. If you use care, you can clean the threads with a standard die. You can't use it to thread an unthreaded ferrule though. I'm going to try a tenon threader from Cue Man. I know it won't do as good a job as Joey's thread grinder, but perhaps it will do what I need to do. If you wish, I'll let you know how it works out. I plan to order it tommorrow.

stickman
02-27-2005, 08:55 PM
The tenon can be left unthreaded for about the last 3/16" near the shaft. The Ivor-X ferrules aren't threaded all the way through. The first 3/16" aren't threaded near the open end. They are almost the only ferrules use. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Cueless Joey
02-27-2005, 09:29 PM
It won't take much heat to melt the yellow/white glue on those house cues. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
True, not all ferrules have unthreaded bottoms for the shoulder.

Chris Cass
02-27-2005, 10:50 PM
Hi Ras,

If your talking about your ferrule on the 314 shaft, you'ld better stipulate that. I believe that the 314 ferrule is of a different animal. JAT

Regards,

C.C.~~what up roomy? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ras314
02-27-2005, 11:21 PM
Hi Chris,

No way am I going to monkey with the Predator ferrule! Those shafts cost way to much and I think the ferrule itself is very thin of some soft material. The bar cues are real cheap (read free) so no harm done yet. Some of these things never had a ferrule, just some white glue stuff with a flexable pad glued on the end. Whatever that stuff is super glue won't stick to it. In fact after being in contact with it the super glue wouldn't even stick to my fingers! Stuck a elk master on one with Elmers wood glue, so far it's still on. Weird looking thing, the bar bangers haven't even noticed yet.

Having fun, thinking about buying some of those pre-tapered shafts and putting 'em on house cue handles for sneaky petes.

Hope you're doing well.

ras314
02-27-2005, 11:30 PM
Stickman,

Hadn't thought of cleaning out the threads with a regular die. Sounds like a lot of nit picking work to clean them out with a pen knife. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I would much appreicate hearing how your compression die works out. Maybe by then I'll have tried out the Unique Products version.

Cueless Joey
02-27-2005, 11:47 PM
If you wanna clean out the threads after the glue has melted, use a small triangular file. Do it slowly though.

Chris Cass
02-28-2005, 02:06 AM
Hi Ras,

Good thing. If you do try to mess around with making some SP's then I'd like to suggest you have the butts turned down to 1 1/4" for the grip area. That seems to too fat for the stock bar cues. 1 1/4" are to my favorite and many agree with me. It feels good to the touch. Maybe, a nice change add a small ring to the very bottom of the cue. To give it that suttle but noticable difference.

Might stop the bar patrons from just grabing it and think it's a house cue. Not that that might not happen anyway. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif I like the 1/4" Hoppe ring on the bottom. Seems to be a good looker. imho

Regards,

C.C.

SpiderMan
02-28-2005, 07:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> All the capped ferrules I see in the Atlas catalog are 5/16 X 18 tapped full length, so I'm a little confused about the shoulder. It sounds like different cue maker use different arrangements so replacing ferrules may be a hassle.<hr /></blockquote>

Ras,

Even though they are advertised as threaded full length, I can't think of a process they might use on a capped ferrule that would cut the threads 100% depth all the way to the bottom. Even a bottom tap leaves a little to be desired. I think it's probably a good idea to have a small amount of reduced-diameter shoulder as Joey suggested.

SpiderMan

ras314
02-28-2005, 11:04 AM
I wondered how they got threads to the end of a blind hole. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

For now I'll just refuse to replace ferrules on two piece cues. No wonder the charge is so steep to put on a $4 part, not only is it time consuming but 'ol fumble fingers here could mess up badly. Out of around 30 house cues none have had threaded ferrules. In fact many have no ferrules, others have had tapered hole ferrules hammered down over the tenons with no glue at all.

Popcorn
02-28-2005, 11:10 AM
Nobody said it was easy, but it has to be done right. Like anything the right tools make the differance

LJC_Cues
02-28-2005, 11:15 PM
All well most cue makers use threaded/capped ferrules now. Its so they dont fall off if they are glued improperly! and the capped ferrule is stonger than the non-capped ones. I could not glue a threaded ferrule and it would not come off! I have done this to my own cue just out of curiosity. It never even came loose during play and I broke with it and slammed shots with it just trying it out! I put threaded ferrules on all my cues. And also if any one wants to replace a ferrule I put on threaded ferrules. I thread right to the bottom of the tenon every single time. The way I found easiest was to put the cue on the lathe and slowly cut it down. By doing this once the ferrule is thin enough it will pop off with the threads intact. I then take my die and rethread the threads on tenon just to get any other glue off of the tenon. If you go to my website www.ljccustomcues.com (http://www.ljccustomcues.com) I have pic of this in the repair pics section. You should always thread ferrules on and use capped ferrules especially if you are using ivory. When I first got a lathe I practiced alot on my own cues which sucked at first because I messed alot of cue shafts up!! I have had to rebuild alot of shafts for my cues but it was a learning process. In order to get better its like anything else you have to practice! Buy 10 cheap ferrules from atlas put them on 2 cues let them sit for a week or two and then cut them back off and put new ones on! Keep donig this until you get the hand of it. I did that and I can put a ferrule on in no time now! my dad once told me that the key to doing anything is learning how to do correctly! I am still a small time cue maker hoping to become bigger my business has grown tremendous in the last year! Every one in MD DC and VA knows who I am knows I do good work and they come to me if they need a repair or a cue or anything pool related! Sorry for the spil but just keep practicing and you will figure it out! Also for a good die go to chris hightowers website he had alot of good things! I would also suggest not buying the threaded ferrules after you learn but buy a rod so you can learn to cut them down and drill and tap them yourself. It saves you money!
Luke

Popcorn
02-28-2005, 11:36 PM
I had a chuck like that on a lathe about ten years ago. Those jaws are like a buzz saw, I almost lost a finger to it. Be carefull with that thing.

LJC_Cues
03-01-2005, 05:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I had a chuck like that on a lathe about ten years ago. Those jaws are like a buzz saw, I almost lost a finger to it. Be carefull with that thing. <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah when I first bought that lathe I tore up many of fingers!!! I busted my knuckle so bad once that it was blue and purple for 2weeks!! Needless to say I stayed off the lathe for a while!

SpiderMan
03-01-2005, 08:03 AM
Luke,

Try using the "macro" and/or "manual focus" features of your camera when taking close-ups. Your picture of tenon threads looks like a cotton ball because the camera is focused on your workbench a foot behind the shaft. This seems to be the case for all of the close-up photos. If you get them in focus it will make your business seem a lot more serious.

SpiderMan

BLACKHEART
03-01-2005, 08:44 AM
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifI repair over 1000 Qs a year &amp; I think you exaggerate when you say "most cuemakers use threaded/capped ferrules". Actually I find very few cuemakers use them. I've been making Qs a long time &amp; my standard ferrule is NOT CAPPED &amp; NOT THREADED. All of my Ivory ferrules are capped ,but NOT threaded. It is true that the biggest cuemaker in the country Mcdermott(60,000 yearly), does use threaded ferrules, but they are not capped. Meucci is second with 40,000 cues but only his "Black Dot" shafts are capped &amp; I don't know if they are threaded or not. A large percentage of the cue market is made up of Chinese imported cues &amp; very few of them have capped or threaded ferrules. I say this because I don't like the hit from a capped &amp; threaded ferrule &amp; I don't want my customers reading this thread &amp; asking for these ferrules 'BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE IS USEING THEM". I know the reason Mcdermott uses threaded ferrules is, so they can slobber some glue on them, screw them on &amp; forget them. It's a time saver...JER

Troy
03-01-2005, 09:08 AM
Thanks for the response Jer.
I too do many repairs per year and the majority of my customers do NOT like the feel/hit of a capped ferrule and I agree with them.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gifI repair over 1000 Qs a year &amp; I think you exaggerate when you say "most cuemakers use threaded/capped ferrules". Actually I find very few cuemakers use them. I've been making Qs a long time &amp; my standard ferrule is NOT CAPPED &amp; NOT THREADED. All of my Ivory ferrules are capped ,but NOT threaded. It is true that the biggest cuemaker in the country Mcdermott(60,000 yearly), does use threaded ferrules, but they are not capped. Meucci is second with 40,000 cues but only his "Black Dot" shafts are capped &amp; I don't know if they are threaded or not. A large percentage of the cue market is made up of Chinese imported cues &amp; very few of them have capped or threaded ferrules. I say this because I don't like the hit from a capped &amp; threaded ferrule &amp; I don't want my customers reading this thread &amp; asking for these ferrules 'BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE IS USEING THEM". I know the reason Mcdermott uses threaded ferrules is, so they can slobber some glue on them, screw them on &amp; forget them. It's a time saver...JER <hr /></blockquote>

ras314
03-01-2005, 03:33 PM
Jer,

Glad to see your comments. I don't seem to be able to get a decent thread with a compression die anyway. Doesn't look like mine would be much if any stronger than a thru hole ferrule. With super glue it isn't much faster to install the threaded ferrules either.

Popcorn
03-01-2005, 03:33 PM
I replace capped ferrules with what was there but on new work I don't use capped. In fact I use an 11/32 tenon leaving a pretty thin walled ferrule, as ferrules go. I never have any break but even if one did, I view it as expendable, I want a certain hit from the shaft. I like the end grain of the wood in contact with the tip and the ferrule to be just a thin sleeve and nothing more. For me, it's not even debatable to have a tip glued to the end grain of the shaft and not piece of plastic in between. Most all the capped ferrules I replace have big gaps and hollow ends before the cap, maybe some glue. Most are pretty ill fitted even on some high end cues. I don't think they compare to a thinner walled sleeved ferrule and the wood showing. I have no idea where the 5/16 (.312) tenon became the standard. Then they cut it down even more to like .285 for threading and cut in threads leaving an root diameter of around .265. I don't think it is a good way to do ferrules. Just my opinion.

ras314
03-01-2005, 04:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> For me, it's not even debatable to have a tip glued to the end grain of the shaft and not piece of plastic in between. Most all the capped ferrules I replace have big gaps and hollow ends before the cap, maybe some glue. <hr /></blockquote>
I've been wondering about the same thing. I suspect the only way to put really high stress shock on the ferrule/wood joint would be to slam the cue butt on the floor. Don't see how a capped ferrule is any stronger with the gap between the plastic "cap" and wood. And it sure should make a difference in hit how it is installed.

Thinking of putting a tip on bare wood with no ferrule just to see if I can feel the difference in hit. And how long it will last. Seems like I saw that discussed in an old thread but I can't find it now.

Cueless Joey
03-01-2005, 05:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I know the reason Mcdermott uses threaded ferrules is, so they can slobber some glue on them, screw them on &amp; forget them. It's a time saver...JER <hr /></blockquote>
Jer, how is that a time saver?
It'd be a lot faster just to make the tenon a little over the I.D. of the ferrule, then slap the ferrule in.
To thread the tenons, it takes much work for me.
I create a tenon.
Then I leave a shoulder of around .200 long at the bottom and take down the rest to around .282".
Place the thread grinder with a very expensive carbide brazed threading mill in the toolpost. Thread all the way down. Then file the top a bit.
If I didn't like threading tenons like when I do house cues, it'd be a breeze. I like capped ferrules because you get almost the same feel all around the tip. You also get more stregth. That's why you leave your ivory ferrules capped, I think.

Popcorn
03-01-2005, 06:15 PM
You can't compare how you would work to McDermott. I have seen them work and they don't even use a screw driver to put the weight screw in the butt. They have a driver with a clutch that zips it in. As far as the threading. I watched them do it and the tenon get a threaded cut and when it gets to the girl that was putting on the ferrules she just swabbed it with glue and screwed it on and the threads hold it in place in a second. Plus it requires no clamping and every one seats perfectly. You could even cut it down at that point if you didn't want to wait for it to dry. They just thread the first 1/4 to 3/8, inch (I never measured it) and the rest is a 3/8 tenon. Very nice ferrule set up in my opinion. I do believe the threading has something to do with production more then anything else for them. It is fast and good and that is what you want in production.

Popcorn
03-01-2005, 06:29 PM
Quote
"I like capped ferrules because you get almost the same feel all around the tip. You also get more stregth. "

With a capped ferrule the entire impact of hitting the ball is on the ferrule and the shoulder it sits on, on the shaft, not the centerline of the shaft and end grain. I think it creates a weak link in the play of the shaft. Ideally would probably be no ferrule at all but the wood at the tip would probably begin to spread over time so a ferrule serves a purpose in that respect.

SPetty
03-01-2005, 06:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr>For me, it's not even debatable to have a tip glued to the end grain of the shaft and not piece of plastic in between. <hr /></blockquote>So can I surmise that you don't like to use pads under your tip? Or is that a different kind of plastic than you're talking about?

Cueless Joey
03-01-2005, 06:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> You can't compare how you would work to McDermott. I have seen them work and they don't even use a screw driver to put the weight screw in the butt. They have a driver with a clutch that zips it in. As far as the threading. I watched them do it and the tenon get a threaded cut and when it gets to the girl that was putting on the ferrules she just swabbed it with glue and screwed it on and the threads hold it in place in a second. Plus it requires no clamping and every one seats perfectly. You could even cut it down at that point if you didn't want to wait for it to dry. They just thread the first 1/4 to 3/8, inch (I never measured it) and the rest is a 3/8 tenon. Very nice ferrule set up in my opinion. I do believe the threading has something to do with production more then anything else for them. It is fast and good and that is what you want in production. <hr /></blockquote>
Pop, it's true only the top portion of Mcd's tenons are threaded. If that process were faster than the sleeved one, these Chinese imported cues would surely have 'em too, you would think.
Most of the shafts I see in the shop that need ferrule replacing, are the sleeved kind.
I was part of the early production of Ivor-X ferrules. THe inventor, my mentor Kerr Zeiler, designed Ivor-X for durability. It has a 5/16 18 threads with a short unthreaded portion at the bottom and is capped. Properly installed, it should never replacing ever unless thoroughly abused.
A great number of cuemakers also swear by threaded and capped Melamine. Some guarantee it for life.

Cueless Joey
03-01-2005, 07:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Quote
"I like capped ferrules because you get almost the same feel all around the tip. You also get more stregth. "

With a capped ferrule the entire impact of hitting the ball is on the ferrule and the shoulder it sits on, on the shaft, not the centerline of the shaft and end grain. I think it creates a weak link in the play of the shaft. Ideally would probably be no ferrule at all but the wood at the tip would probably begin to spread over time so a ferrule serves a purpose in that respect. <hr /></blockquote>
Pop, in that case ivory ferrules shouldn't be capped?
Having wood in the center of the ferrule makes for an inconsistent hit imo. The cueball would hit some parts of the tip with ferrule under and some parts of the tip with wood under. Leather on wood just does not reasonate all that well to me. Leather tip glued entirely on top of a capped ivory, we all know offers a great feel.

Popcorn
03-01-2005, 08:02 PM
It is fast because it requires no clamping and is a done deal in 10 seconds and seats perfectly every time. There always has to be a compromise between fast and good when doing production. They don't believe in capped but do believe in threaded. I by the way do thread 1/4 inch of the top of the ferrule but it goes through and is not capped. That is just my philosophy it is not a debate. I also don't use any 5 minute epoxies. The glue has to "wet in" for a few minutes on the wood before you add a little more glue and assemble. Many I always hear them saying they use the 5 minute stuff. Just different thinking.

Troy
03-01-2005, 08:22 PM
There's a guy in this area (SF Bay area) who has a ferrule about 1/4" long (maybe less). The idea is that the ferrule only protects the end of the shaft from splitting and a ferrule any longer than 1/4" only adds to deflection/squirt.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Thinking of putting a tip on bare wood with no ferrule just to see if I can feel the difference in hit. And how long it will last. Seems like I saw that discussed in an old thread but I can't find it now.
<hr /></blockquote>

Cueless Joey
03-01-2005, 08:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> There's a guy in this area who has a ferrule about 1/4" long (maybe less). The idea is that the ferrule only protects the end of the shaft from splitting and a ferrule any longer than 1/4" only adds to deflection/squirt.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Thinking of putting a tip on bare wood with no ferrule just to see if I can feel the difference in hit. And how long it will last. Seems like I saw that discussed in an old thread but I can't find it now.
<hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>
I've seen those Schuler shafts with very very short ferrule as well.

stickman
03-01-2005, 10:12 PM
PC, Just my impression, but when I was trying to make a jump/break cue from a sneaky pete, I replaced the non threaded, uncapped, (I think a pvc or similar), with a capped unthreaded Ivor-x, the hit was diffinately firmer. Could it be that the impact was dispersed on the shaft shoulder, rather than the tenon end, and still show the same effect?

Popcorn
03-01-2005, 11:00 PM
Why use a pad? They are a pressed fiber and many guys like them for ivory ferrules. I guess it lets you ware down the tip and still not be impacting the sharp edge of the ferrule and chipping it. I don't use them but if someone want one I put them on.

Cueless Joey
03-01-2005, 11:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Why use a pad? They are a pressed fiber and many guys like them for ivory ferrules. I guess it lets you ware down the tip and still not be impacting the sharp edge of the ferrule and chipping it. I don't use them but if someone want one I put them on. <hr /></blockquote>
LOL PC. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I can't stand that sound they make. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SpiderMan
03-02-2005, 07:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Why use a pad? They are a pressed fiber and many guys like them for ivory ferrules. I guess it lets you ware down the tip and still not be impacting the sharp edge of the ferrule and chipping it. I don't use them but if someone want one I put them on. <hr /></blockquote>

Although it does provide some margin of chip protection when tips are played thin, I don't consider that to be the main utility of the "pad".

When a tip compresses and mushrooms, spreading sideways, it tries to spread the ferrule and/or shaft with it. After all, they're glued together. The pad, which does not stretch in the radial direction, provides mechanical isolation so that the spreading force does not get to the ferrule or shaft.

Uncapped ferrules could therefore achieve a benefit in robustness with the use of a pad, as could even capped ferrules if they were made of a material such as ivory.

IMO, "pad" is a misleading name for the isolation disk. It's not to provide padding, as it is harder than the tip material anyway. We have a local cuemaker who actually builds, sells, and installs a break tip using a stack of "pads".

SpiderMan

Popcorn
03-02-2005, 09:43 AM
That probably makes some sense. It may prevent the ferrule from peening over to a degree. I think a majority of all impacts are absorbed by the tip itself and the leather would begin to break down before it would ever move a material as hard as the ferrule. At a point though I can see the pounding being taken by the ferrule as the tip wares down. All things being considered though, material, method of installation and so on, the play of the cue is what the cue maker should be concerned about. As I said in my other post the tip and ferrule are an expendable part of the cue and easily replaced. I would not compromise the play of the cue for a ferrule that will last forever.

It's funny I had this discussion with Bob Meucci years ago. I was knocking his ferrules and asked him why he used such a thin walled ferrule that often cracked and he said basically what I just said. I guess I am more in his park now when it comes to ferrules except for the length. I never really understood why he used such a long ferrule. He may have told me but I don't remember. I was sponsoring a tournament in the 70's and he was there showing and selling cues and we talked a lot about cues that weekend. He was a pretty good guy and loved to talk about his cues. Regardless what many people think about him or his cues, he was innovative. At that time cuemakers used very short tapers and Meucci liked the long taper It was not long till other cue makers followed. I think more players back then played with Meucci cues by choice then any other cue. David Howard played with his Meucci at the same time he was working for McDermott. They were just lively cues to play with, you felt like you could really control the cue ball espacaly playing 9-ball. Another thing was they all seemed to all play alike. If you liked Meucci you could just go into a supply that sold them and buy a cue and you would like it if you were a Meucci person.

SpiderMan
03-02-2005, 10:18 AM
My first cue was a Meucci, made in Memphis in 1975. It has a plain mahogany butt and a maple shaft, white plastic collars with one black band. It retailed for $40, and didn't even have Meucci's name anywhere on it. I guess that was before he had a roll stamp. It was the first model M0-1. When Bob first came to Memphis, he would be in the Golden cue seemingly every night, hawking the cues that he was making down the street.

That cue played well, but the butt warped after about 6 months. The warp was about halfway between the grip and the joint. I still have the cue, for sentimental reasons, but obviously can't play with it.

Since then I have owned one other Meucci, made in the 1980s. It's another fairly plain cue, no splices or inlays, with an oversprayed wrap. I always assumed this cue would warp anyway, like the first, so I just left it in my car in the Texas heat and cold, all summer and winter. It's as straight today as the day I bought it. Go figure. This cue now remains at my parents' home in Mississippi, just in case I fly over and don't bring one with me.

BTW, the ferrules on both my Meuccis have been replaced due to splitting.

SpiderMan

Popcorn
03-02-2005, 10:43 AM
When ever I replace a Meucci ferrule I always do it exactly the way it is on the cue. Some guys cut them down to 5/16 and put on their own ferrules and I think they are doing the person a disservice. You should replace what it there the same. I explain to the person what I am doing and why and I will guarantee the ferrule to a degree but if it cracks in a few years that is the way it goes. I would never do anything that will change the way the cue plays, it is their cue not mine. Most people like their cues and want it back the way it was, not my idea what they should like. Although I do my ferrules almost the same s Meucci anyway.

SpiderMan
03-02-2005, 12:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> When ever I replace a Meucci ferrule I always do it exactly the way it is on the cue. Some guys cut them down to 5/16 and put on their own ferrules and I think they are doing the person a disservice. You should replace what it there the same. I explain to the person what I am doing and why and I will guarantee the ferrule to a degree but if it cracks in a few years that is the way it goes. I would never do anything that will change the way the cue plays, it is their cue not mine. Most people like their cues and want it back the way it was, not my idea what they should like. Although I do my ferrules almost the same s Meucci anyway. <hr /></blockquote>

I had Mike Erwin replace my last ferrule, as he was also replacing a joint collar on the Meucci (I don't do these because I don't do refinish). I had him leave the tenon dimensions because I like the idea of keeping it strong. We bored out an aegis ferrule to slip over the larger tenon. So far, no cracks, but as I said this cue is seldom used anymore.

SpiderMan