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Keith Talent
03-01-2005, 09:38 AM
Anybody else notice a couple of things off in BD March issue's You Make the Call?

I was looking over this 8-ball layout after the break and considering the strategy and the ruling ... then I wondered who else saw something funny here:

START(
%A[0N5%Bq4W0%CD0J8%D`2X6%EH1E5%FH8V8%GX7W8%IK0Z0%KI8Z 9%LL7M1
%MK5M9%NL0Z9%OL8N4%PC8U0
)END

The discussion was about whether a player could call a safety before pocketing the 3 and claim solids ... personally, no matter what the ruling, I can't see why you wouldn't rather either draw back a hair and shoot the 7 and runout, or maybe roll under the 5 and follow that uptable ... or maybe even stun the 3 and bank the 5 or play safe off it ... but there's one problem with the runout, LOL

Barbara
03-01-2005, 09:51 AM
Where's the 8-ball?

Anyway, my question is, does the incoming player have BIH because the shooter did not legally pocket a ball to establish his/her group?

Barbara

Keith Talent
03-01-2005, 09:58 AM
Yep ... small hitch in the runout there!

According to the piece, the next player would be shooting at an open table, no BIH. But, on second thought, it doesn't say that exactly, just that it would be illegal to claim the group. But also unnecessary, considering the first shooter apparently broke in the 8. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

SpiderMan
03-01-2005, 11:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Where's the 8-ball?

Anyway, my question is, does the incoming player have BIH because the shooter did not legally pocket a ball to establish his/her group?

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

Barbara,

If the table was open prior to the shot, the table is still open, no BIH. The assignment of groups is not determined until one player pockets a called ball on a legal shot. The player executed a legal shot, but did not call the ball - he called a safety, so no determination of group has been made.

Calling a safety means that the opponent shoots next, regardless of whether or not a ball is pocketed. Obviously, since the table was open and he hit/pocketed a legal ball on his safety, there is no BIH.

I have also called safe after the opening break on occasion, but it is uncommon to face a layout where that is the best choice. Usually it occurs when one group has a substantially better table position, and you call safe while making absolutely certain that your opponent can't respond with a called shot. For example, you freeze him against a ball and force him to move things just enough so that you can take the best group.

SpiderMan

MrLucky
03-01-2005, 11:59 AM
<font color="red">Good Reply! I had someone similarly try and call a BIH on my APA league 2 weeks ago when I did this ! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Rackin_Zack
03-01-2005, 01:15 PM
I know if you're playing the only ball you have to call is the 8-ball then if you make a ball on a safety when the table is open you have to shoot again. At least that is my understanding and how the tournaments and leagues are run here.

SpiderMan
03-01-2005, 01:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr> <font color="red">Good Reply! I had someone similarly try and call a BIH on my APA league 2 weeks ago when I did this ! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Thanks,

Though it would not be a BIH in either APA or BCA, for the record I was speaking with regard to BCA rules with regards to the original question. That is because the original poster stated that the shooter called a "safety".

As you know, in APA there is no such thing as a called safety. If the shooter makes a ball of his group during a legal shot, he must continue shooting. If the table is open and you make a ball during a legal shot, that becomes your group and you continue shooting. If the table is open and you make at least one ball from both groups during a legal shot, the table remains open and you continue shooting (in APA).

SpiderMan