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View Full Version : Cue ball frozen to opponents ball - shot foul



Billy_Bob
03-03-2005, 12:02 PM
I had a shot like the following. Playing 8-ball and the cue ball was frozen to my opponents ball. I thought I hit the cue ball away from my opponents ball, yet my opponents ball moved ever so slightly. I later wondered if my opponents ball was "being held in place" by the cue ball, and movement of the cue ball, even directly away, would have caused my opponents ball to move slightly. Does this ever happen?

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/

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BoroNut
03-03-2005, 01:05 PM
It could only happen because there was a defect in the cloth or raised spot protectors are being used. You can't do more than play away from the touching ball, which effectively gives you up to 180 to play with. I don't know the rules of pool, but in snooker you can't be penalised for faulty equipment. Any 'agency other than the player' is not a foul. Even if the head falls off the rest and fouls the balls, the referee just resets them, and in the case of moving balls, in the positons he judges they would have ended up.

Bob_Jewett
03-03-2005, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> I had a shot like the following. Playing 8-ball and the cue ball was frozen to my opponents ball. I thought I hit the cue ball away from my opponents ball, yet my opponents ball moved ever so slightly. ... <hr /></blockquote>
The shooter is not penalized for the settling of balls in such a situation. Of course, in such a situation it's also possible -- I'm not saying you did it, just that it's possible -- to have the cue stick graze the top of the object ball and move the cue ball before the tip contacts the cue ball. Such a shot is a foul, even in "cue ball only" situations.

Similarly, if the cue ball is frozen to a ball and the object ball settles when the cue ball is shot away, the shooter does not get credit for having hit the object ball, if such credit is useful. The cue ball must be shot at least partly towards the frozen object ball to get credit (or blame) for having hit it.

Chris Cass
03-03-2005, 04:50 PM
Hi BoroNut,

Welcome aboard. I like your name. What does it mean? Anyway, the opponenmts ball could have been in a divet in the cloth. It's entirely possible. Could also have moved while adding the pressure of the bridge hand and the cloth moved a hair.

I had an opponent do this exact thing to me in a tournament at Whiteys pool room in a match. He didn't see it of course because I had him in jail and he was kicking. I called the foul because the way I seen it was there was no way he could possible get a hit the way he was shooting the shot. His friend seen it but wouldn't get involved. I was cool with that but would he still sat on the side lines if it was me?

Anyway, it looked something like this,

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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

I've seen some stranger things happen in this game. lol

Regards,

C.C.

Rod
03-03-2005, 08:25 PM
Yes it does, you can foul this shot with right english. For that reason I would call a foul. It moved, who knows, it could have easily been hit off center with right.

If you hit a similar shot with a knowledgable ref and it appears right english was used they should call a foul.

Rod

SpiderMan
03-04-2005, 07:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr> Yes it does, you can foul this shot with right english. For that reason I would call a foul. It moved, who knows, it could have easily been hit off center with right.

If you hit a similar shot with a knowledgable ref and it appears right english was used they should call a foul.
Rod <hr /></blockquote>

Rod has made a good point that I think is often overlooked. Consider being frozen to a ball, or nearly so. If you shoot only slightly "away", ie almost parallel to the common tangent between the two balls, you may hit or not hit the ball based on side english used.

If you hit the cueball off-center on the side away from the frozen object ball, the cueball can squirt into it and hit. Similarly, if you're wanting to slightly hit the frozen object ball, you can squirt away and miss if you try to use side by offsetting your tip toward the frozen object ball.

I've seen good players, trying to just barely graze a nearby object ball for a safe, miss it completely because they also tried to apply sidespin to position the cueball after the rail hit. And they looked puzzled at the outcome /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SpiderMan

BoroNut
03-04-2005, 03:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi BoroNut,

Welcome aboard. I like your name. What does it mean? <hr /></blockquote>

It means I love the Boro. My mate Dave reckoned I only like them inordinately, but he eventually agreed that I did love them really once hed recovered consciousness. Anyway, he suits a limp. It draws attention away from the fact that hes not quite symmetrical.

Hes a bit depressed about losing his hair at the moment. Hes only got a few scruffy tufts left around the back, poor sod. It started falling out around about the time I put bikini line in his hair gel. Itll grow back when he finishes the tub. Hes a good laugh Dave.

Well I laugh.

Boro Nut

Bob_Jewett
03-04-2005, 04:07 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>...I've seen good players, trying to just barely graze a nearby object ball for a safe, miss it completely because they also tried to apply sidespin to position the cueball after the rail hit. And they looked puzzled at the outcome /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>
I think this would actually be a good place to apply "aim and pivot" (AKA backhand english) to compensate for squirt. The problem is that the players know squirt but they subconsciously expect some cancellation of the angle with swerve, and on such a very short shot there is no time to swerve.

SpiderMan
03-07-2005, 09:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>...I've seen good players, trying to just barely graze a nearby object ball for a safe, miss it completely because they also tried to apply sidespin to position the cueball after the rail hit. And they looked puzzled at the outcome /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>
I think this would actually be a good place to apply "aim and pivot" (AKA backhand english) to compensate for squirt. The problem is that the players know squirt but they subconsciously expect some cancellation of the angle with swerve, and on such a very short shot there is no time to swerve. <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, it would work quite well in that case. Line up centerball to just graze the object, then pivot before the shot. You'd need to bridge back at the pivot point for automatic correction, rather than the shorter bridge one might otherwise be tempted to use for a short/soft/dink safety.

SpiderMan