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05-31-2002, 07:53 PM
Ok I got the pool bug. I am looking for a 2-3 day intensive training course. Any recommendations? I live in California but will fly anywhere in USA. Thanks

05-31-2002, 08:09 PM
Bert Kinister. Countless world champions can't be wrong. Scott Lee is a regular on the board and comes VERY highly recommended.

Race2-9
05-31-2002, 08:33 PM
Contact Randy Goettlicher at The Acadamy of Billiards, Dallas, Tx 1-800-707-0158. Be prepared to work for three days!

Patrick
06-01-2002, 03:07 AM
You don't need to travel anywhere for a pool school, I have created an online pool school. Click on this link for more information. http://vp3.0catch.com

Patrick

Rich R.
06-01-2002, 05:51 AM
There are a number of pool schools all over the country. Randy G. has one in texas, Fran has one in New York and there are others in New England and the Midwest. I am sure all are excellent. I have considered them myself. The question I asked myself, and maybe you should be asking, is how much can I absorb in two or three days. Speaking for myself, I have to say that I learn slowly and do not process a lot of information quickly. I don't think I would do well in one of the pool schools. Others do great. You have to decide for yourself.
Some one else mentioned Scott Lee. I recently had the first lesson of my life and it was with Scott. It was great and I have been reviewing the tape of my lesson and working on some of the things Scott and I talked about. In a couple of hours with Scott, he discovered some problems in my stroke and provided me with a few drills, which I believe are helping my game. My lesson with Scott was a great experience. If you are not familiar with Scott, he is a regular poster on this board and he travels all around the country doing shows and giving lessons.
Another alternative would be to find a BCA instructor in your area and make arrangements for lessons. You can have an intensive beginning session or group of sessions and then maybe one lesson a month to continue your training. That way you can work on what you have been taught for a month and then learn more. Shop around for an instructor that you like and can work with to create an ongoing pleasant relationship.
There are a number of possibilities for learning pool. Choose the one or combination of a couple that is best for you.
Rich R.

Chris Cass
06-01-2002, 06:00 AM
I'm also interested in learning how to play. I have about close to 30 yrs experience. What are your qualifications? How long have you been playing? Computer pool doesn't count in my case though. Only because I'm talking about playing on a real table.

C.C.

Fred Agnir
06-01-2002, 06:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: karma:</font><hr> Ok I got the pool bug. I am looking for a 2-3 day intensive training course. Any recommendations? I live in California but will fly anywhere in USA. Thanks <hr></blockquote>
Roy Yamane, BCA Master Instructor, HardTimes Bellflower

Fred

Patrick
06-01-2002, 09:12 AM
Pool is 90% mental. Why can't you understand that you don't need to use the other 10% to get better at pool?
All pool players play pool without a pool table, they see different shots in their mind. When they dream, they play up the same video over and over again until they can make that shot.
So why use a pool table? You can use Virtual Pool 3, it's the same except it doesn't have the other 10% which is better because you don't have to think about the 10% which will mess up the other 90%, then you isolate those two parts and can concentrate more on the mental part of the game. You shouldn't practice both mental and physical at the same time, if you do that, then the other part will mess up the other and then you will learn slower.
My pool school isolates both parts which will make you learning things faster.
Then when you add both parts together, you will be better than if you had practiced both parts together. Your potential will be higher.
You don't need a pool table to practice your mechanics either, you can use a normal table at home, I use my computer table that is the same height as a pool table. I have played real pool once per month last 6 months and improved faster than when I played 30 hours per week!
All because of isolating both mental and physical.
Everytime I played real pool, my stroke was better than last time!

This is why it has taken you 30 years because you have used the primitive learning method. When you miss a shot, you don't know what went wrong, was it your mental or your physical? This is why it takes such a long time until you know what you did wrong. This is why all players use the memory system to play pool instead of my "know" system. If you know what you did wrong, you can change it, if you don't know what you did wrong, you can't change it and you haven't learned anything.

You only need to play real pool once per month, that is all that is needed, when you come home, you play up everything you did as a video in your mind over and over again until you can make all shots, when you come back next month you will make those shots with a higher accuracy!

You will also need to know what the right way to play is, when you know everything that happens with the balls, you will know everything you do right and wrong. When you have this knowledge, you will see that you can make every shot with a big margin of error. Why shoot a shot in a way where you need to have 10 times better speed control? It is better to choose the easiest way.
To know everything that happens on the table, how many times the balls rotate around their axis and things; you will need a very high intelligence. This is why I have create this pool school, to share all the secrets I have discovered, how to play with the biggest margin of error for every shot, the best secrets I have are kick shots, because these are the hardest shots and nobody else can fully understand it.
I also know the biggest margin of error for the mechanical part of the game. Everybody use different stances and claim that you just need to be comfortable, this is very wrong.

You only need 1% of your pool practice to actually play on a real table, that is when you add the mental and physical parts together.

I haven't played any tournaments yet, it is a waste to play tournaments if you haven't fully developed your game. Because you are concentrating on tournaments instead of improving your skills. The pressure part is the 3rd part and that should be added on top of the two fully developed parts. Otherwise it would be hard to close the mental and physical parts together if the 3rd part is in the middle.

The higher your ball making accuracy gets, the less your pressure will be.

Patrick

cuechick
06-01-2002, 09:40 AM
If I could afford it I would definatley do the Vancover Pool School with Paul Poitie(??I know I'm not even close!) and Allison Fisher. I have heard amazing things about it and it is also suppose to be a beautiful trip. I am suprised it has not been mentioned I believe you can find info about on Allison or Gerda's site.
www.allisonfisher.com (http://www.allisonfisher.com)

Scott Lee
06-01-2002, 10:09 AM
Patrick...Just curious, but how could you improve so much, when you are already the (self-acknowledged) BEST player in the world! LOL Sorry to tell you, but Chris Cass is a better poolplayer than you could ever hope to be!...and btw,
when Chris DOES miss a ball, he knows exactly what happened! It is RARELY a function of the alleged 90% mental game that you allude to...the misses for almost ALL players (even the pros) come from a physical error in the stroke!

Scott Lee

Patrick
06-01-2002, 10:25 AM
Of course a perfect stroke is needed for what I teach in my pool school. But that is not the biggest problem, it is much easier to reach your potential in the physical part than the mental part.
The pros at pool all have bad strokes compared to snooker players, because in the game 9-ball you don't need a good stroke, you don't even need good cueball control to run racks easily. So this is why the pros don't fully develop the mechanics, because they don't need it. But when they need to make a difficult shot, they will miss it. So pool players have started using the defense method, playing safeties.

I am already the best but I still want to get better. I want show how good someone can really get, I want to show what is possible.

Because pool players don't have high intelligence, they use the memory and feel method, and with this system, they can't become better than they already are.

It is like a house with 100 doors, after every door you pass you are a better player, when you reach the last final room, you have fully developed your game. But why not walk outside the house and take the backdoor? Because pros don't know it exists, they go little steps at a time.

I just choose the other faster path than the rest.

Patrick

Scott Lee
06-01-2002, 10:41 AM
Patrick...So, you need a perfect stroke to learn from your pool school? LOL I find that the majority of students who come to me for instruction NEED help with their stroke (whether they know it or not). I teach them how to stroke correctly! Maybe we should go into business together? I'll teach them how to stroke (on a REAL table), and you can teach them the rest with your imaginary and computer games! LOL LMAO!!!

Poolplayers don't have high intelligence? LOL Perhaps some of the ones you know don't, but I happen to know MANY players (not necessarily top pros) who are incredibly smart!...with Masters and PhD degrees in any number of disciplines. You are right about one thing...it is easier to achieve the desired effect in the physical game than it is in the mental side of the game. This is why you don't see the same players winning all the tournaments...in fact, rarely does the same pro win two tournaments in a row! The balls roll funny for everybody, and how you deal with it shows up in your mental game pretty quick.

Sometimes you are SUCH a hoot! LOL

Scott Lee

Patrick
06-01-2002, 10:50 AM
I said the mechanical part is the easiest, and my students will easily learn the perfect stance and stroke which I have discovered. After that, my students will be better than pros, and then the serious practice begins.

With high intelligence I mean 180-200 IQ. 150 and below is low IQ.
For a 100 IQ human, a high IQ would be 120 and above.

The reason why the same player don't win again is because 9-ball is a big luck game. If there would be a game with no luck, then the same player would always win (if he is still the best).

Patrick

06-01-2002, 11:50 AM
When i read on the internet about the good pool players and the pros its always like wow, they must be amazing ...
Then when i see them play on trickshooter or on accu stats i see something very unimpressive.
Since you seem to be such an expert on the stroke, what do you think of the strokes of efren reyes, corey deuel, mika immonen and some others?
Either you have a better stroke or you have a low standard of whats good.

Scott Lee
06-01-2002, 11:57 AM
Malcolm...Efren is the best poolplayer on the planet. He has an incredible stroke. However, he will be the first one to tell you NOT to try to do it the way he does (and also tell that he doesn't know HOW he does what is able to do...it just comes to him naturally). Many of the Filipino players have an extraordinarily long bridge. They seem to use it fine, but it will be a hindrance to success for the average player. Corey and Mika both have good fundamentals. I don't feel the need to defend my own stroke here...there are many others who have seen it!

Scott Lee

Patrick
06-01-2002, 12:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Scott Lee:</font><hr> Malcolm...Efren is the best poolplayer on the planet. He has an incredible stroke. However, he will be the first one to tell you NOT to try to do it the way he does (and also tell that he doesn't know HOW he does what is able to do...it just comes to him naturally). Many of the Filipino players have an extraordinarily long bridge. They seem to use it fine, but it will be a hindrance to success for the average player. Corey and Mika both have good fundamentals. I don't feel the need to defend my own stroke here...there are many others who have seen it!

Scott Lee <hr></blockquote>

What is your IQ?

Patrick

Chris Cass
06-01-2002, 04:11 PM
Patrick,

I asked a simple question. How long have you been playing real pool? You have avoided it. When I miss a ball, "I don't know what happened?" Well, I can tell you this, my young friend. I've forgotten more about pool than you'll ever know about pool.

Remember the streaming video of yourself stroking on the computer table at home you sent me? Should I post it for all to see? I don't want to burst your bubble, but your stroke looks like you're sawing a log with the rhythm of Peewee Herman.

Life is too short to bother with the likes of you, but I will say I think it's really low to put up a pool school advertisement, and charge the unknowing. You're a fraud and I think it's a shame for you to take advantage of these people. Your one of those internet scammers.

C.C.

Rip
06-01-2002, 06:34 PM
CC, haven't you heard? Pee Wee Herman has a perfect stroke? LOL OOPS, wrong board! Sorry, Rip~~forgot to bookmark the porno sites!

06-01-2002, 07:06 PM
HES a FRAUD!!!!!!????? damn now I have to throw away the 19 virtual pool lessons I bought :O)

06-01-2002, 07:17 PM
I would clasify a good stroke as being one that helps the player hit the ball consistantly in the same spot with the same desired outcome each and every time.... It does not matter that the stroke does not look as perfect as it does on other players........efren may look ugly but he looks the same ugly every time.... I wish I could be so ugly

Barbara
06-02-2002, 05:12 PM
C'mon Chris, tell him how you really feel!

Barbara~~~LMAO, LMAO....

06-02-2002, 08:59 PM
My email is randyg@poolschool.com

Thank you

06-02-2002, 11:21 PM
Ha HA HA! Go get 'em Rip!!! ( and they all laughed....)

Patrick
06-03-2002, 02:46 AM
You are wrong again, it wasn't a streaming video. Everyone have been beginners with an undeveloped stroke.
I have played 5 years and even that is too long, with my knowledge it should only take 2 years from beginner to pro.
Those first years I didn't know anything about pool, I didn't know how to practice, nobody told me anything, I had to discover everything by myself, years ago I asked questions in this forum and nobody could give me good answers.
That's why I have created a pool school, so others don't make the same mistakes as I did!

Patrick

Chris Cass
06-03-2002, 08:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> You are wrong again, it wasn't a streaming video. Everyone have been beginners with an undeveloped stroke.
I have played 5 years and even that is too long, with my knowledge it should only take 2 years from beginner to pro.
Those first years I didn't know anything about pool, I didn't know how to practice, nobody told me anything, I had to discover everything by myself, years ago I asked questions in this forum and nobody could give me good answers.
That's why I have created a pool school, so others don't make the same mistakes as I did!

Patrick <hr></blockquote>

Yes Patrick, I was wrong about the streaming video. Well, half, it was video.

You'll have to forgive me. It's not all your fault. It's the 99% of all internet scammers that make the rest, like yourself, look bad. What is this world coming to?

Your technically legal, just not ethically legal.

Regards,

C.C.~~can't argue with an alien.

Chris Cass
06-03-2002, 09:02 AM
Hi Karma,

Please excuse my clash with our resident alien. There are a lot of excellent BCA Qualified instructors out there. The ones that post here are extremely dedicated, to the students and I recommend them.

I do recommend you take advantage of the ones here though. Not only, from the lessons you'll recieve but from future questions you might have, digesting all the information.

Best regards,

C.C.

06-03-2002, 12:07 PM
Dealing with the mental game on a computer huh. Now, I'm a computer junkie and a pool junkie. I just can't see it happening jack. My biggest problem, as I can see most other do to, is stroke development. I can back you with the whole kitchen table stroke development thing. Been there and done that, even had a mirror next to me. My game skyrocketed when I got my own table and decided to brave the Until I got my own table and decided to brave the lonly road of solitary practice. And the chief stroke enhancer was Berkinister shot #1 and all though I can't call it by number, long and straight slow roll tops. Deadly very deadly. But the mere notion that someone could actually think that a computer could take the place of good solid meaningful practice is ridiculous. To be honest, it does sound like a scam and I bid all newbies beware. I'm not a pro, but solitary practice gave me the ability to gamble and win at least 85 to 90% of the time. I bought my table and payed for my cues with won money. So, don't be like those people that fall for those diet pills, only hard work can do the job. If you don't want to practice then you must come to grips with the fact that you will never excel and must settle for mediocre. Besides, Mosconi, Crane, Lassiter, Wilis and Felson or Parker didn't use computers. There is something to be said for taking the route the legends chose. To become like them by practicing like them that is classic that is this great game we called pocket billiards.

06-03-2002, 01:27 PM

06-03-2002, 02:03 PM
you're too funny bro. Pool is not your bag baby, you need to get in the entertainment industry!

06-03-2002, 02:19 PM
for a human I'm a little low at 137, this was the average score of 3 different tests. Will you lend me some of yours so I can take one of your lessons? I need 43 more right?

bigalerickson
06-03-2002, 02:30 PM
I would love to see the list of very satisfied customers that this apparent "Pool god" has methodically mentored into becoming masters of the game. As I am certain that this list is long, as well as quite distinguished.

I also eagerly await the, probably boringly long, list of tournanemts that my new hero, Patrick, aka "pool god" has won.

-BigAl
ps: I also, along with whitewolf, would love to see that "video" posted of my new pool hero stroking his short cue.

Thanks for the laughs CC, and scott for the logic.

Scott Lee
06-03-2002, 03:59 PM
Kahn...Nice post! I totally agree! FYI...Felson was an imaginary character created by Walter Tevis for his novel, The Hustler. The rest are real players, though Eddie Parker (who swore he was the model for Fast Eddie Felson) was never in the same league with the other players you mentioned. Eddie Parker, a fellow trickshot artist (like myself), and great ambassador for the game, sadly passed away a year ago last Feb. The truth is that all the characters in the novel were imaginary, and the author swore they were not made up from ANY real players, including Rudolph Wanderone (aka "Fats") and Eddie Parker.

Scott Lee

Patrick
06-03-2002, 05:31 PM
I don't care about money, money is very stupid, this is why there is greed and evil.
I only need money for a new shaft for my cue so I can play better and start playing tournaments.

Patrick

Patrick
06-03-2002, 05:40 PM
You don't understand, I use the computer to show what happens to the balls. It is the same as using a video camera in real pool.
There is no difference with reading something on the computer than in a book, it contains the same text!
If you want to practice 20 years instead of 2 years to reach the same results, then do it.

Patrick

cheesemouse
06-03-2002, 06:19 PM
Patrick,
Are you familier with the term 'garbage in garbage out'? Your Virtual Pool is just a garbage computer program that is as flawed as the human that wrote it. Everything you learn from it is erroneous and inaccurate as compared to the real world of pool.

Patrick
06-03-2002, 06:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> Patrick,
Are you familier with the term 'garbage in garbage out'? Your Virtual Pool is just a garbage computer program that is as flawed as the human that wrote it. Everything you learn from it is erroneous and inaccurate as compared to the real world of pool. <hr></blockquote>

How can you make a comment like this?!?!?

Patrick

Patrick
06-03-2002, 06:57 PM
If I teach the strategy of the game, what difference is it to have a picture of the table layout from real pool than a picture from Virtual pool 3? It contains the same thing! Same as text from a book and from the computer, why can't you understand this?

Patrick

bell
06-03-2002, 07:23 PM
"Little Al Romero" @ Hardtimes Billiards, Bellflower, CA.

bell
06-03-2002, 07:26 PM
Billy Aguero, house pro @ Chalkers Billiards, San Francisco.

cheesemouse
06-03-2002, 09:04 PM
Patrick,
It was easy. I just thought of it and then I walked up to the keyboard and jumped on the appropriate keys. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
You said something about teaching pool by showing your students pictures of, I assume, the layout of balls and then, once again I assume, you say do this when you see this situation. I think that's just fine but certainly not a unique concept. That happens on this board all the time with 'wei' pool program. But we real pool players know that we actually have to go hit these shots on a real pool table before we can accomplish the desired results shown. In all that I've ever read from you here on this board you preach that one doesn't have to actually proform that step but rather hold that picture in your head and then if you have enough pictures you can go win the Worlds Championship. To us mere humans that's really funny. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Patrick
06-03-2002, 09:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> In all that I've ever read from you here on this board you preach that one doesn't have to actually proform that step but rather hold that picture in your head and then if you have enough pictures you can go win the Worlds Championship. To us mere humans that's really funny. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif <hr></blockquote>

They do that in karate, it works with pool too. It is mental, in karate you have movies in your mind how a movement is made and practice it mentally.
You will never get good if you don't run racks in your mind.

Patrick

cheesemouse
06-03-2002, 09:24 PM
Patrick,
I agree but it is for sure you will never get good if you don't hit hundreds of thousands of balls in practice. Thats the way it is no matter what you think. We humans know this.

bigalerickson
06-03-2002, 09:53 PM
cheese,

I alway suspected you to be more of the mouse species. learn something new everyday, cuz I certainly didn't learn anything else from all this bantering nonsense.
-al

cheesemouse
06-03-2002, 10:00 PM
Sorry about your luck, Big Al. Maybe if you stay in college a couple more years you'll get it. Maybe they have a course in Alien and Mouse. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif By the way I'm just following your advise in your tag line. Don't you?

06-04-2002, 03:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> Patrick,
It was easy. I just thought of it and then I walked up to the keyboard and jumped on the appropriate keys. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
You said something about teaching pool by showing your students pictures of, I assume, the layout of balls and then, once again I assume, you say do this when you see this situation. I think that's just fine but certainly not a unique concept. That happens on this board all the time with 'wei' pool program. But we real pool players know that we actually have to go hit these shots on a real pool table before we can accomplish the desired results shown. In all that I've ever read from you here on this board you preach that one doesn't have to actually proform that step but rather hold that picture in your head and then if you have enough pictures you can go win the Worlds Championship. To us mere humans that's really funny. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif <hr></blockquote>

Cheesemouth,
We are all real pool players. Anyone who can walk up to a real pool table is a real pool player. Patrick is a real pool player. I happen to like the Virtual Pool sim. Since you hate it so much you evidently have tried it and didn't have the skill to be good at it.
Now bitch, as a REAL POOL PLAYER what are your accomplishments? Please list your wins as a professional. You are a professional right?

JohnnyP
06-04-2002, 03:47 AM
Cheese: This is like playing eight ball in a dive. Just discovered I'm fresh out of quarters, so I'm off to Danny K's. Wanna join me?

CarolNYC
06-04-2002, 06:28 AM
Hi Fred,
"The Sensei" Roy Yamane-I had the pleasure of hanging with him at the LA Regional-wonderful guy-I have the phone number and I believe his contact is www.billiardinstructor.com (http://www.billiardinstructor.com)!
Carol

CarolNYC
06-04-2002, 06:33 AM
Chris,
OH NO-extraterrestrials posting! ha ha ha-LMAO
Carol

cheesemouse
06-04-2002, 09:01 AM
JohnyP,
I'd love to join you at Danny K's but I have a few quarters left and want to see if I can get the V-BOYS flying in formation...LOL

cheesemouse
06-04-2002, 09:08 AM
potog,
Define professional in men pools please.

06-04-2002, 09:41 AM
Lemmee know if you need a wingman Cheese! Just when I was missing Ken.....This should be good.

Patrick
06-04-2002, 10:45 AM
Because that is the primitive memory and experience method.
When you know what happens to the balls, you don't need to make thousands of balls just to learn one shot like you need.
With my "know" system you can make new shots you haven't done before.

Try to play Rotation straight pool, there is always a new shot you haven't done before. It is impossible to use the memory and experience method and learn all the billions of shots in a lifetime.
Here is a streaming video of me playing Rotation straight pool: http://www.angelfire.com/film/rsp/

Patrick

06-04-2002, 11:04 AM
The balls roll funny for everyone.. except those who play exclusively with virtual balls. hahahaha.

Virtual balls are always clean, round, and virtual tables roll strait. You don't need chalk for your virtual cue, and your virtual opponent can't try to shark you really. If they really want to make virtual pool, they should have someone who walks to the table while your shooting a difficult shot on the 9 ball... but I guess if we were intelligent we wouldn't have to shoot a hard shot on the 9 ball.....

06-04-2002, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> potog,
Define professional in men pools please. <hr></blockquote>

Cheesemouth,
professional in men pools, dang I assumed you were a guy. So you are evidently not a proffesional in womens pool either since you don't know what a professional is. Good luck in your games as a real pool playing lady. I guess Lorri is your girl friend huh?

cheesemouse
06-04-2002, 02:48 PM
Podog, LOL

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Cheesemouth,
professional in men pools, dang I assumed you were a guy. So you are evidently not a proffesional in womens pool either since you don't know what a professional is. Good luck in your games as a real pool playing lady. I guess Lorri is your girl friend huh?<hr></blockquote>

I do consider Lorri a friend and now my wing lady. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif When I asked you to define what a professional male pro was it was because there is some doubt about what constitutes a pro as there is no one organization defining it. In womans pro pool the WPBA is the recognized defining organization and they actually have a tour where one can't just have the entry fee money in order to qualify to play as in mens pool. That's why I asked you to define what constituted a male pro. You see, if your a good boy and take the garbage out, mow the lawn, clean your room and quit leaving that damn bike in the driveway you can get an increase in your allowance then you can enter a mens pro event; even though you've never played the game. My question is would you then be a pro? Sorry for the confusion.
If I was a lady and played at the level I do I would be a pro as I love to play and I would cash with regularity. I wouldn't figure on winning every event because the top eight ladys play a very fine brand of nineball and the rest of the top 30 or so are improving at a fast rate.
You had a 50/50 chance at guessing my gender and you lost the flip. Your quarter is up, Podog....... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

06-04-2002, 04:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> Podog, LOL

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;Cheesemouth,
professional in men pools, dang I assumed you were a guy. So you are evidently not a proffesional in womens pool either since you don't know what a professional is. Good luck in your games as a real pool playing lady. I guess Lorri is your girl friend huh?&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I do consider Lorri a friend and now my wing lady. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif When I asked you to define what a professional male pro was it was because there is some doubt about what constitutes a pro as there is no one organization defining it. In womans pro pool the WPBA is the recognized defining organization and they actually have a tour where one can't just have the entry fee money in order to qualify to play as in mens pool. That's why I asked you to define what constituted a male pro. You see, if your a good boy and take the garbage out, mow the lawn, clean your room and quit leaving that damn bike in the driveway you can get an increase in your allowance then you can enter a mens pro event; even though you've never played the game. My question is would you then be a pro? Sorry for the confusion.
If I was a lady and played at the level I do I would be a pro as I love to play and I would cash with regularity. I wouldn't figure on winning every event because the top eight ladys play a very fine brand of nineball and the rest of the top 30 or so are improving at a fast rate.
You had a 50/50 chance at guessing my gender and you lost the flip. Your quarter is up, Podog....... /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif <hr></blockquote>

Well cheesemouth you shore put me in my place didn't ya?
So back to the puter and play a little Virtual Pool. Remember it ain't real pool played by real men. Its just a game played by little boys. But don't show up at my table, you might get a surprise.

Podog formerly potog

06-04-2002, 05:05 PM
Potog, why are you trying to sound like one of those stupid 'cool' teenagers?

06-04-2002, 09:27 PM
Oh, is that what he's trying to sound like? I thought he was just trying to sound rude and under-educated. My, I do learn something new every day!

Chris Cass
06-05-2002, 01:04 AM
Oh Patrick,

I take everything back that I said about you. Your not an internet scammer at all. I after reading your site a minute ago believe in my heart. Anyone who pays for lessons from your school, deserves them. LOL

Regards,

C.C.~~just a human...

06-05-2002, 05:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Malcolm:</font><hr> Potog, why are you trying to sound like one of those stupid 'cool' teenagers? <hr></blockquote>

Malcolm you know at age 74 I am in my second childhood.
How is your brand new pool table? Still trash?

Lorri, Uneducated perhaps, rude never.

06-05-2002, 06:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lorri:</font><hr> Oh, is that what he's trying to sound like? I thought he was just trying to sound rude and under-educated. My, I do learn something new every day! <hr></blockquote>

Lorri, You keep referring to yourself as a wingman. Are you a man? or just butch? and you sure sound famaliar. Have we cybered before? Don't you hang out in the Hot Tub channel on IRC?

I suppose you are one of the real pool players. I never had the time to become a real pool player. I was too busy with my career and raising a family. I could only shoot a real pool game now and then on an old bar table at the local joint. Now days I am a male nanny for my eleven year old grandaughter 12 hours a day and play a little Virtual Pool on the computer which I built. The only professional I am is a professional photographer. I have never done any nude photography but if you want we can try it ffs.

cheesemouse
06-05-2002, 06:35 AM
Podog,
Why don't you sends us self-portrait of your big fat ass?~~~~~ /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

06-05-2002, 09:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> Podog,
Why don't you sends us self-portrait of your big fat ass?~~~~~ /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif <hr></blockquote>

Damn cheesemouth are you gay? You wanting to cyber? Why you want a picture? Well I do have a caricature of me that a friend in Denmark drew that is on my web site. Guess I can give you the URL. Hold on let me get it...
This a photograph of me back in '46 when I was in the Navy.
http://www.geocities.com/potog/indexa0.html
below is the caricature URL
http://www.geocities.com/potog/index22.html
See I ain't fat. Don't have the long hair anymore either.
Now cheesie don't be tryin to hook up with me.

cheesemouse
06-05-2002, 03:41 PM
Podod,
Now I see your game. Want me to tell you how it goes.......you'll bait afew more people with your insults ( you couldn't just keep it at the good clean fun level ) then the smart regulars will ignore you and then you will be gone...thats how it goes here on this fine self-regulating board. We get a whif you then your gone, kind of like a fart in a wind storm. See Ya /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
P.S. I didn't even bother to look. Also I would like to apologize to the crew for encouraging another master baiter. Sorry folks.......

06-05-2002, 06:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr> Podod,
Now I see your game. Want me to tell you how it goes.......you'll bait afew more people with your insults ( you couldn't just keep it at the good clean fun level ) then the smart regulars will ignore you and then you will be gone...thats how it goes here on this fine self-regulating board. We get a whif you then your gone, kind of like a fart in a wind storm. See Ya /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif
P.S. I didn't even bother to look. Also I would like to apologize to the crew for encouraging another master baiter. Sorry folks....... <hr></blockquote>

No cheesemouth I was not baiting anyone. I was irritated by your derogatory remarks about Virtual Pool a fine game which you know nothing about. I love the game of pool and the history of the game. I have regularly read this forum for several years but never post here except maybe 2 or 3 times in those years. I know you are a big shot here on this forum and a huge contributor to the advancement of the game of pool. Just keep your cheesemouth shut about the game of Virtual Pool which untold thousands of people also love and play. Did you happen to notice that Jeanette Lee endorsed Virtual Pool 3. I think she would be included in the ones you mentioned on the Women's Tour in our little chat here.

P.S. I notice you ALWAYS keep it a nice clean fun level. You are a hipocrit of the highest level.

06-05-2002, 07:32 PM
Excuse me, but I hardly think that calling my sexual preference into question could be labeled anything but baiting. Well, maybe ignorant, rude, and moronic, but the point is that you were trying to bait me. You should really get your facts straight though. I only once offered my services as wingman to cheese (an acceptable military term in response to his prior post), and he only once accepted, referring to me as his "wing lady". I try to make it my practice not to show up at a battle of wits unarmed, may I suggest you do the same?
Thanks for the offer on the photos, but my boyfriend handles all my nude shots. And I don't hang out in hot tubs, as I too have a family to raise and a job to work. Somehow I do manage to find time to play pool though.....

Jay M
06-05-2002, 08:11 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: potog:</font><hr>
the game of Virtual Pool which untold thousands of people also love and play. Did you happen to notice that Jeanette Lee endorsed Virtual Pool 3.<hr></blockquote>

Did you happen to read the interview she did with regards to Virtual Pool 3? She seemed to me to be hedging throughout with the exception of one very solid statement about VP3 lacking the "feel" of the real thing. I'll see if I can hunt down a link to the interview.

In the meantime... I play both the game and the sport. VP3 does NOT act anything like the real game. The only things the two games have in common is that they have the same rule sets and use the same equipment (although not real equipment in the case of VP3). I've said it before and I'll say it again; VP3's angles are wrong. The stroke is unrealistic, even after the patch where they attempted to fix it. The rails CAN'T be adjusted in such a manner as to react like real rails. The carpet doesn't have any friction at all with regards to english (side spin).

This isn't just my opinion btw, Ray Martin and I tried to use the game to reproduce the effects of a couple of shots made on a real table. Not weird shots or masse's or anything like that, but regular shots. We spent hours trying to do it and could not make it work. I showed the game to Big Bob Ogburn, who Earl Strickland said was once "the best player on the planet", and he agreed that the angles in the game are off.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE playing the game (VP3). I just find very little that corresponds to the real life game of pool. I'll continue to play both, but when given the choice between the two, I'll choose the real thing every time.

Jay M

06-05-2002, 09:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> &lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote: potog:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr&gt;
the game of Virtual Pool which untold thousands of people also love and play. Did you happen to notice that Jeanette Lee endorsed Virtual Pool 3.&lt;hr&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Did you happen to read the interview she did with regards to Virtual Pool 3? She seemed to me to be hedging throughout with the exception of one very solid statement about VP3 lacking the "feel" of the real thing. I'll see if I can hunt down a link to the interview.

In the meantime... I play both the game and the sport. VP3 does NOT act anything like the real game. The only things the two games have in common is that they have the same rule sets and use the same equipment (although not real equipment in the case of VP3). I've said it before and I'll say it again; VP3's angles are wrong. The stroke is unrealistic, even after the patch where they attempted to fix it. The rails CAN'T be adjusted in such a manner as to react like real rails. The carpet doesn't have any friction at all with regards to english (side spin).

This isn't just my opinion btw, Ray Martin and I tried to use the game to reproduce the effects of a couple of shots made on a real table. Not weird shots or masse's or anything like that, but regular shots. We spent hours trying to do it and could not make it work. I showed the game to Big Bob Ogburn, who Earl Strickland said was once "the best player on the planet", and he agreed that the angles in the game are off.

Don't get me wrong, I LIKE playing the game (VP3). I just find very little that corresponds to the real life game of pool. I'll continue to play both, but when given the choice between the two, I'll choose the real thing every time.

Jay M <hr></blockquote>

Jay,
I don't know of anyone who contends Virtual Pool is as good as real pool. Virtual Pool is a simulation no more no less. To me it is a fun game and I get many hours of enjoyment from it. As you know there are some who are extremely skilled at Virtual Pool and even you as a professional real pool player cannot compete with them.
What got my dander up was an unfair and stupid statement by Cheesemouth as follows:
"Patrick,
Are you familier with the term 'garbage in garbage out'? Your Virtual Pool is just a garbage computer program that is as flawed as the human that wrote it. Everything you learn from it is erroneous and inaccurate as compared to the real world of pool."

06-05-2002, 10:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Lorri:</font><hr> Excuse me, but I hardly think that calling my sexual preference into question could be labeled anything but baiting. Well, maybe ignorant, rude, and moronic, but the point is that you were trying to bait me. You should really get your facts straight though. I only once offered my services as wingman to cheese (an acceptable military term in response to his prior post), and he only once accepted, referring to me as his "wing lady". I try to make it my practice not to show up at a battle of wits unarmed, may I suggest you do the same?
Thanks for the offer on the photos, but my boyfriend handles all my nude shots. And I don't hang out in hot tubs, as I too have a family to raise and a job to work. Somehow I do manage to find time to play pool though..... <hr></blockquote>

Sorry Lorri. I am normally very pleasant to ladies. I was hot under the collar about cheesemouth's remark about Virtual Pool and you sided with him and I lashed out at you. I promise to be pleasant to you should we converse in the future.

potog

bigalerickson
06-06-2002, 01:11 AM
wow. nothing like the ignorant to stop in for a bit and keep this site entertaining.
-Bigal - is looking forward to podogtogfogjog getting bored with people who are thinkers.
-Also cannot stand people who must insult someone to attempt to make a point. satan has a special place in hell reserved for these people.

bigalerickson
06-06-2002, 01:35 AM
Are you familier with the term 'garbage in garbage out'? Your Virtual Pool is just a garbage computer program that is as flawed as the human that wrote it. Everything you learn from it is erroneous and inaccurate as compared to the real world of pool."
-Cheesemouse
Don't get me wrong, I LIKE playing the game (VP3). I just find very little that corresponds to the real life game of pool. I'll continue to play both, but when given the choice between the two, I'll choose the real thing every time.
-jayM
don't know of anyone who contends Virtual Pool is as good as real pool. Virtual Pool is a simulation no more no less.
-Potog

First issue is that Cheesemouse is referring to Patrick’s “pool school” which is meant to teach real pool players, real pool, via a computer game.

Second issue: JayM establishes that VP3 is not accurate when compared to real pool.

Third Issue: Potog agrees with JayM’s statement while in the same post bashing both Cheesemouse’s and JayM’s opinions on the fact that VP3 is inaccurate, when he just admitted that it was inaccurate.

Potog, I will now officially address you. I am sure you are an intelligent person when it comes to photography. However, you have made it evident that you have absolutely no idea how to: A. Respect people’s opinions. B. Understand an argument that was being presented, and someone’s opinion that has followed through multiple strings. C. Respect People. D. Enjoy a good heated debate.

I may not be well liked, or well respected in this forum. I may post mostly sarcastic material, meant only to entertain, as I still know very little about pool. I however, know for a fact that you have no rite to act, and talk the way you do. Please do us all a favor and make a positive attitude adjustment, or shut up because there is no need for more arrogant, ignorant, and just plain dumb opinions here.

Alexander W Erickson

TomBrooklyn
06-06-2002, 02:32 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigalerickson::</font><hr>...people who must insult someone to attempt to make a point. satan has a special place in hell reserved for these people.<hr></blockquote>I thought that was an interesting concept, so I spent some time looking through The Bible to see if I could find any references to what happens to those who insult. Most of the references to insulting have to do with insults directed at God, not other men. Of the references to insults amongst men, I was unable to find any specific indication that an insulter would be condemended to hell at all. However, there were earthly penalties indicated.

Isaiah 51
7 ...Do not fear the reproach of men
or be terrified by their insults.
8 For the moth will eat them up like a garment;
the worm will devour them like wool.

There are indications supporting the censure of insulters, and rewards suggested for kind speech.

Proverbs 22
10 Drive out the mocker, and out goes strife;
quarrels and insults are ended.

11 He who loves a pure heart and whose speech is gracious
will have the king for his friend.

There are some references indicating tolerance towards insulters, some suggestions for good thoughts and speech, and indications of rewards for those who speak with kindness.

Proverbs 12
1 Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but he who hates correction is stupid.

11 He who works his land will have abundant food,
but he who chases fantasies lacks judgment.

15 The way of a fool seems right to him,
but a wise man listens to advice.

16 A fool shows his annoyance at once,
but a prudent man overlooks an insult.

18 Reckless words pierce like a sword,
but the tongue of the wise brings healing.

20 There is deceit in the hearts of those who plot evil,
but joy for those who promote peace.

25 An anxious heart weighs a man down,
but a kind word cheers him up.

1 Peter 3
8 Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.
9 Do not repay evil with evil or insult with insult, but with blessing, because to this you were called so that you may inherit a blessing.
10 For, Whoever would love life and see good days must keep his tongue from evil...

However, it may be that those who insult other people insult God indirectly, then the penalties for insulting God may come into play. I terminated my research at this point though, and didn't get into looking for those penalties. I'll leave that to someone else if they are interested in pursuing it.

Romans 15
1 We who are strong ought to bear with the failings of the weak and not to please ourselves.
2 Each of us should please his neighbor for his good, to build him up.
3 For even Christ did not please himself but, as it is written: "The insults of those who insult you have fallen on me."
4 For everything that was written in the past was written to teach us...

bigalerickson
06-06-2002, 04:35 AM
While my opinion may not hold up completely through scripture, I still stand by my statement of "insulters, slanderers, or people that try to ensnare those who are attempting to walk a strait path by using sharp words and actions that cut to the bone, will have a special place in Hell.

While it does talk in Revelation about different levels of Heaven, it only refers to one Hell. So, there is no biblical truth as to my personal dogma of the fate of those who sling insults shamelessly, but merely an inference to what I imagine it might look like. Laywers to the left, used car salesmen to the right, you get the idea.

Some late night ramblings of a Bible Student, who is more interested in loving people than this meaningless banter about a fools place in hell.

-Al

06-06-2002, 06:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigalerickson:</font><hr>
I may not be well liked, or well respected in this forum. I may post mostly sarcastic material, meant only to entertain, as I still know very little about pool. I however, know for a fact that you have no rite to act, and talk the way you do. Please do us all a favor and make a positive attitude adjustment, or shut up because there is no need for more arrogant, ignorant, and just plain dumb opinions here.

Alexander W Erickson
<hr></blockquote>

gosh BigAl you sure put me in my place.
Just one question. This taken from the last paragraph of your post. "know for a fact that you have no rite to act,"
Should that be rite or right?
Now who is ignorant and just plain dumb?

Patrick
06-06-2002, 07:17 AM
Virtual pool 3 is not exactly the same as real pool, but it is close. In future versions on the game it will be better and better.
There is more throw in Vp3, this is why the angle is wrong, but it is wrong by just a little, it is easy to adjust it in real pool. Because of more throw you will need better speed control or you will miss easy shots.
The biggest reason why I practice Vp3 is to get better speed control, that is the most important part of pool. If I shoot with wrong speed in real pool the balls still go in, but I will miss very often in Vp3.
Vp3 is much harder than real pool! When I go from Vp3 to real pool, I play very good speed control, but then the more I play the worse it gets because of the unconsistent table. After I have played real pool and then play Vp3, I have lost little of my speed control skill.
Here are some articles about Vp3: http://vp3.0catch.com/vp3.htm

Patrick

06-06-2002, 07:35 AM
The throw isnt just more, its just modelled completely wrong...
But i do think you can learn a lot from the game.
When i started playing pool i was just trying to make the shots and had very litle possition play.
Real pool was to expensive so i started playing virtual pool.
Since the stroke was perfect, i started playing possition and i got over 2000 rating very fast.
Now when i started playing real pool again when i got my table i just did a few days many hours stroke practice and after that i could easily run 9ball racks.
It might not be exactly the same in the game but if you know what is different and how things work its very easy to adjust.
You do have the feel for control after playing virtual pool.
Aiming is very different ( much harder in virtual pool )and the throw is very anoying.
Now that i have my table i actualy hate the game and never want to play it again :-)

Jay M
06-06-2002, 07:39 AM
Unfortunately, without a significant amount of venture capital, I believe you are playing the final version of VP. If you look at the web site ( http://www.interplay.com/vp3 ), they have stopped distributing the game. That is highly unusual for a successful game. If they DO come out with another version, I would suspect that it will be an online subscription rather than a boxed game with free online play. Actually, I just looked again and they have already gone to this business model. You see, the people that have pirated the game and distributed crack codes for it have effectively killed it off. Just based on the conversations within the chat room and the game rooms I have entered, I would suspect that nearly 50% or more of the players online are people who have a cracked version of the game... That would in turn lead me to believe that, as popular as the game is, the company didn't make their revenue estimates and are cutting their losses by stopping production.

These guesses are based on certain assumptions and are definitely what I would call observational speculation. However, the fact remains that VP3 is not being published any longer. BTW, it may also have something to do with Star Wars Galaxies being pulled from Interplay over licensing issues with the Star Wars trademark. In either case, the net effect is the same, VP3 is no longer published.

Jay M&lt;--- Hates software pirates and those who support them

Patrick
06-06-2002, 07:42 AM
Virtual pool 4 is coming, look on the forum. http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~vp3/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&amp;forum=Communicate+w ith+Interplay/Celeris&amp;number=2&amp;DaysPrune=45&amp;LastLogin=

06-06-2002, 07:59 AM
I dont think virtual pool was ever popular...
On average there are 50 people playing online.
And most people that come there come a few hours a day.
So how many people play online then? very litle...
And im sure the amount of people that play online is a high percentage of the people that bought the game.
I estimate that about 1000 people play online.
Im pretty sure less then 10000 have been sold.
Im being very cautious not to estimate to litle here...

06-06-2002, 09:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> Unfortunately, without a significant amount of venture capital, I believe you are playing the final version of VP. If you look at the web site ( <a target="_blank" href=http://www.interplay.com/vp3>http://www.interplay.com/vp3</a> ), they have stopped distributing the game. That is highly unusual for a successful game. If they DO come out with another version, I would suspect that it will be an online subscription rather than a boxed game with free online play. Actually, I just looked again and they have already gone to this business model. You see, the people that have pirated the game and distributed crack codes for it have effectively killed it off. Just based on the conversations within the chat room and the game rooms I have entered, I would suspect that nearly 50% or more of the players online are people who have a cracked version of the game... That would in turn lead me to believe that, as popular as the game is, the company didn't make their revenue estimates and are cutting their losses by stopping production.

These guesses are based on certain assumptions and are definitely what I would call observational speculation. However, the fact remains that VP3 is not being published any longer. BTW, it may also have something to do with Star Wars Galaxies being pulled from Interplay over licensing issues with the Star Wars trademark. In either case, the net effect is the same, VP3 is no longer published.

Jay M&lt;--- Hates software pirates and those who support them <hr></blockquote>

Jay perhaps we could get Steve Chaplin the developer and owner of Virtual Pool to come on here and give his thoughts about VP4.
I believe there are less than 1% of cracked versions of VP3 being used if any at all. Many come into the GS chat room and say they are going to crack VP3 but you never see them return and play the game. Now there are a few who have copied VP3 to a cd but they cannot install the 3099 patch which everyone uses. They can play others in GSA who have copied VP3 but that is only a small number of people. The vast majority of people have the original VP3 cd and 3099 patch installed. No other version of VP3 is compatible with the 3099 patched version.

By the way cheesemouth and BigAl once Steve Chaplin told me he was a road warrior for a while. Either one of you guys done that?

Ross
06-06-2002, 12:55 PM
Jerry Brieseth in Madison, Wisconsin is excellent and works with anyone from beginners to pros. I saw him for a 3 day stint a few years ago. He keeps his sessions to 4 or fewer players (when I went it was just me and one other guy). He has a nice setup with videotape and he tailors his lessons to your game. Helped my game a lot in a short time and Jerry is a great guy so you will have a good time. Highly recommended.

cheesemouse
06-06-2002, 01:30 PM
Did it for 2 1/2 years straight till I went bust and had to get a job. Those years rate right at the top of my fondness chart.

06-06-2002, 03:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Malcolm:</font><hr> The throw isnt just more, its just modelled completely wrong...
But i do think you can learn a lot from the game.
When i started playing pool i was just trying to make the shots and had very litle possition play.
Real pool was to expensive so i started playing virtual pool.
Since the stroke was perfect, i started playing possition and i got over 2000 rating very fast.
Now when i started playing real pool again when i got my table i just did a few days many hours stroke practice and after that i could easily run 9ball racks.
It might not be exactly the same in the game but if you know what is different and how things work its very easy to adjust.
You do have the feel for control after playing virtual pool.
Aiming is very different ( much harder in virtual pool )and the throw is very anoying.
Now that i have my table i actualy hate the game and never want to play it again :-) <hr></blockquote>

Now Malcolm you know we keep records in Virtual Pool. The highest ranking you have in VIP 9 ball is 1479 not close to 2000. 1479 is a respectable rating but the caliber of players you were winning matches from has a lot to do with it. Looks like your average win was worth about 20 points.
Far far from what you would gain for winning from the better players. If your GSA rating was 2000 in a very short time then again it depends on who you were playing.
I consider myself just an average player in Virtual Pool and many many times when playing race to 5 9 ball matches with the good players I do not get a shot. But again it is just a silly game on a computer and is of no consequence to anyone or anything. Why we are taking up bandwidth on an important and distinguished forum such as this is beyond me.

06-06-2002, 03:35 PM
It was my ingame 9ball rating i was talking about...
When i was playing a lot i went to over 2200.
You just gotta try to get good players to play you all the time on vip...
Most of the time there were only players rated under 1200 in gamespy.
You actualy get a much higher rating from playing high rated players because of the luck involved in 9ball.
A player that is rated way below you can easily beat you, same with you playing a much higher rated.
I always hated the impossible aiming and the throw in the game plus it just looks ugly, im not playing it anymore.
I actualy tried it again a few weeks ago, my aiming is totaly gone, i think id be under 2000 now.

06-06-2002, 03:44 PM
I didnt see you agreed with the getting more points from higher rated people thing.
Most people think the opposite you see...
I guess i didnt even read the words in that line, i just assumed... :-)
Whats your rating potog?
I dont think we ever played.
We did talk before tough, you came in my room sometimes, but i used different names.

TomBrooklyn
09-04-2002, 05:37 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: bigalerickson:</font><hr> people who must insult someone to attempt to make a point. satan has a special place in hell reserved for these people.<hr></blockquote>The following is from Paul L. at Bibleinfo.com

A new Bible question has been submitted.

Question: I read this: “Someone who insults someone to attempt to make a point. Satan has a special place in hell reserved for these people.”

Is this true?

Dear Sir:

Welcome to Bibleinfo.com.

No, it is not true that Satan has a special place for insulters in Hell. God is in charge of hell and not Satan. In fact Satan is going to be in hell himself with the lost of all ages and probably burn the longest.

There are two kinds of hell in the Bible. In the Old Testament the word hell in Hebrew is SHEOL and it always means GRAVE where the dead are put when they die. In the New Testament the word for GRAVE is HADES. They are both the same kind. The other kind found only in the New Testament is Gehenna which means HELL as the final destruction of the wicked including Satan in the Lake of Fire which God sets ablaze and puts out when all the wicked are burned up. Since this is a common question I want to share the subject of DEATH with you and what brought DEATH on, namely SIN. It follows:


Someone asked: Could you please explain what happens to a person when they die &amp; they are the following:
1. Unbeliever
2. Believer, repented &amp; baptized
3. Person on deathbed calls upon the Lord's name to be saved.

The short answer to all three of your points is the GRAVE. The long answer follows.

When people die - good or bad - they go into their graves until they are awakened at one or the other resurrection morning. The good at the beginning of the millennium and the evil at its close. Atheists are no different from the rest of the sinners. All have to face the JUDGE of the Universe and receive his reward - the good to eternal life and the evil to be cremated. I am going to give you a full explanation on the State of the Dead and where death came from next.

I am so happy you decided to ask about death as it relates to Heaven or Hell. Well I have good news for you. I realize most religions teach that we go to Heaven, Purgatory or Hell when we die, but such teaching is not Biblical. It began with Satan and Eve in the Garden of Eden and was perpetuated by mankind. Greek philosophers picked up on it and passed it on to the Romans and after Rome fell in AD 476, passed it on to the Roman Catholic Church from whence the Protestant enominations have perpetuated it to our day. We get this question frequently so I am going to copy a couple of responses to this question. I would be happy to dialogue with you regarding any future questions you may have. May this bring you comfort.

DEATH
To understand death we have to start at the beginning and trace it to our day. I will start with a standard answer and then comment specifically on some of the points you raise. (This was a reply I gave to someone else).

First, what is life? Genesis 2:7 says "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." Notice that the first man - Adam - became a soul, not had one. Through procreation you became a soul; I became a soul. As long as we are alive we are souls. What happens when we die? The mind, heart, and body together are the soul. No one has a soul in him because his whole person is a soul.

Second, what is death? "Then shall the dust (from which the body was made) return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (Ruwach in Hebrew, meaning breath) shall return to God who gave it" (Gen. 2:7; Gen. 3:19). Death is reversing life. Before birth we were nothing, knew nothing, and so again after we die.

Most religions teach that man is immortal, has an immortal soul. A profound error! It started when the serpent told Eve "Ye shall not surely die." (Gen. 3:4). And mankind has believed it ever since with few exceptions.

Look up these verses on the mortality of mankind: Job 4:17; Rom. 6:12; 8:11; 1 Cor. 15: 53,54. First the pagans and then the philosophers of Greece and Rome perpetuated the immortality of the soul and religionists took it from there until it is worldwide in its deception. That teaching has brought a lot of pain and misconceptions of God, His character, and the real truth.

Only God is immortal. See 1 Tim. 1:17 and 6:16. Why would Paul tell the Romans to seek for immortality if they already possessed it (Rom. 7). It will become the gift of God to believers in Him at Jesus' second Coming (Rom. 6:23). Immortality and eternal life are the same thing.

When our loved ones died, their breath returned to God who gave them life, and they went to their graves to sleep until the resurrection morning. The Bible teaches that death is a sleep (See the experience of Lazarus in John 11). We expect to wake up after we have our rest; so it is with the sleep of death.

We are brain-dead and heart dead when dead. The Bible says we know nothing when dead; have no feelings, not conscious of anything (See Eccl. 9:5,6,10). The dead do not praise God (Ps. 115:17). There is no communication, no memory, nothing (Ps. 6:5; Job 3:13; 14:12-15, 21;17:13). This should be a cause for relief for us. I cannot think of anything worse than having loved ones in heaven looking down on all the misery and pain of their survivors. Would not a parent be beside him or herself when there are divorce problems with their children; or drugs, or murder, felony, etc.?

The conclusion to death is the coming of Jesus. We call it the second coming. Very soon now he will come (Matt.24:30,31; John 14:1-3; Acts 1:9-11) and resurrect the righteous dead(1 Thess. 4: 16-18; 1 Cor. 15: 51-57) and take them to heaven(Rev. 20: 4-6) where they reign as kings and priests and review the cases of the lost (1 Cor. 6:2,3).
At the end of the 1,000 years (millennium) the wicked dead are raised to receive their sentence and punishment which will not be an eternally burning hell but incineration in the lake of fire (Rewv. 20: 9,14; 21: 8; Zechariah 14:12; Mattt. 25:41). When this has been accomplished, God creates a new Earth wherein dwells righteousness and righteous people (Rev. 21: 1-7; 2 Pet. 3:13; Isa.65:17). Love and happiness supreme will be the lot of God's people.

Everyone who has ever lived is a soul, a whole person. The next life will be no different than this life in one respect. In that we enter eternal life as whole persons with all our senses keen to enjoy the pleasures of Eternity with God.

No one has yet refuted this teaching of Bible truth although they have tried. The usual meaning of the word hell in the Bible is grave or pit from Sheol in Hebrew in the Old Testament and Hades from Greek in the N. T. also meaning grave. See Matt. 11: 23; 16:18. There is another word for hell in the N. T. Gehenna meaning final destruction in Mt. 5: 22,29.

I think I will give you a response to the question where did evil come from since it is the cause of death. It will be helpful to you.

SIN - ITS ORIGIN
No, God did not create evil. The origin of sin is inexplicable. To be able to explain it is to excuse it and we cannot blame a loving God for messing up His own universe. Only an outside intelligence could do that.

Remember that God created intelligent free moral agents with the power of choice. Had He made robots, there never would have been sin. But creatures with the power of choice could at any time choose to disobey God and that is what Lucifer did. The story of the beginning of evil and the course it has taken and it’s conclusion follow:

We need to start with the beginning of things to understand it perspectively. Go to Isaiah 14:12-20. There Lucifer is mentioned, his ambitions and fate. Compare that passage with another one in Ezekiel 28: 12-19. As you study it verse by verse, you will see that God made Lucifer perfect in the beginning (verse 15) and that one day sin was discovered in his heart and mind. We do not know definitively what caused this but we can conjecture. In verses 12 and 17 we have 2 possible causes - wisdom and beauty par excellence. To be the wisest and most beautiful created being in the universe could lead to pride, Then to be given the highest position in the universe - covering cherub - in God's presence (verses 13 and 14) would doubtless add to the pride factor. See verse 17: "Your heart was lifted up" suggests pride. And does not the wise man in Proverbs say: "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

Once pride controlled his heart and life (see his ambitions to overthrow God in Isaiah 14:13,14) he would set about to influence his fellow angels. They conspired and defected. In Rev. 12: 4 under the symbol of a Dragon (Lucifer turned Satan: Rev. 12: 9) took one third of the angels with him. Stars are a symbol of angels (Rev. 1:20). With the defection and rebellion growing God had to do something to stop it. So in verse 7 it came to warfare. But it did not last long. Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven to this earth, tragically for us.

Immediately after his arrival, Satan deceived Eve and led Adam and Eve into sin (Gen. 3). Sin came upon the whole human race (Rom. 5:12; 3:9,10,19,20,23). The antediluvian world corrupted itself) Gen. 6: 5,11-13) and God had to destroy all but Noah and his family. The post diluvian world with their short life spans have been bad enough. Most have refused to serve God but a minority have been His remnant people.

Then Jesus came, had a show down again with Satan, and bested him on the cross. Satan knew that one day he and his angels will be destroyed (Matt. 25:41). When that comes at the end of the millennium during which time he and his angels brood over their choices and activities in an unpopulated world (Rev. 20: 1-3). The righteous are in heaven (they go there at the second coming of Jesus: John 14:1-3; Matt. 24:27;30,31; Rev. 20:4,6). The wicked are all dead, destroyed by the brightness of Jesus' second coming for His people( 2 Thess. 1: 7-9; 2:7,8;
Rev. 19: 11-21; Isaiah 24:19-22; Jer. 4:23-26; 25:31-33).

After the millennium, the wicked dead are raised to life (Rev. 20:5,7,8) to receive their sentence and then are incinerated (verse 9,14; Zechariah 14:12; Ezekiel 28:18) and then Satan, sin and sinners will be no more. Heaven will be a perfect place to live forevermore. The wicked do not burn in an ever burning hell but die in a hell whose fire goes out when they are all burned up - root and branch (Malachi 4:1; Jude 7).

Then God creates the new heaven and earth (Rev. 21, 22; 2 Peter 3:13; Isaiah 65:17). And praise God they will live happily ever after!

I trust my answer is of help to you.

Cordially yours in the Master's service,
Pastor Paul

SpiderMan
09-04-2002, 06:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Scott Lee:</font><hr> It is RARELY a function of the alleged 90% mental game that you allude to...the misses for almost ALL players (even the pros) come from a physical error in the stroke!

Scott Lee <hr></blockquote>

Scott,

I'd like to discuss this sometime, maybe over the dinner I already owe you. By my own accounting, this majority is not apparently true for me, it's more like 25% unless you and I have different definitions of "physical error". For example, if I lean slightly (lazy) to adjust aim instead of moving my feet a little, and miss as a result, I categorize that as different from a "stroke" error. Likewise if I let my eyes wander from the object ball at delivery, I separate that from physical "stroke" error. I do classify it as a "physical error in stroke" when I "choke" the cue at contact. Actually, that causes me to miss shape more than miss the shot, but I still take note when I do it.

Obviously ALL misses are physical in the sense that the tip didn't hit the ball exactly right to create the desired results, but I like to subdivide it into categories that indicate why that happened so I can think about it and pay more attention to the root cause.

Are we on a different page entirely?

SpiderMan

Scott Lee
09-04-2002, 08:49 PM
Spiderman...I would catagorize any error that is not mental, as a stroke error...so perhaps we are playing a little bit of semantics here. I'd be happy to discuss/debate the differences in what we both think over dinner, and then some time on the table, to put into play the things we talk about! See you later this month.

Scott

SpiderMan
09-04-2002, 09:04 PM
Sounds great to me. BTW, I'd call my first two example errors "mental". It's not a matter of physical execution, it's just losing focus and doing something wrong when I really know better. A third mental error I sometimes make or catch myself about to make is playing imprecise position (shooting with only a general plan for the cue ball). Then the next ball or the one after is missed because of my inability to execute the ridiculous out-of-line shot I've left myself, but still the root cause was not a stroke issue but a prior mental error.

Actually, most of my problems appear to be mental. Duh, what was I saying?

SpiderMan

SPetty
09-05-2002, 07:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Scott Lee:</font><hr> I'd be happy to discuss/debate the differences in what we both think over dinner, and then some time on the table, to put into play the things we talk about! <hr></blockquote>Man, I gotta figure out a way to finagle myself into this dinner/table time somehow!

bluewolf
09-05-2002, 08:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Patrick:</font><hr> You don't need to travel anywhere for a pool school, I have created an online pool school. Click on this link for more information. <a target="_blank" href=http://vp3.0catch.com>http://vp3.0catch.com</a>

Patrick <hr></blockquote>

patrick, you are good at what you do but some need a hands on approach.

i bet if a person had money,they could schedule a two day class with scott.he spent four hours with me anyway.

bluewolf

bluewolf
09-05-2002, 08:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: whitewolf:</font><hr> "Remember the streaming video of yourself stroking on the computer table at home you sent me? Should I post it for all to see? I don't want to burst your bubble, but your stroke looks like you're sawing a log with the rhythm of Peewee Herman."

Chris, this is the funniest thing I have heard in months on this site!!!! Please post it so we all can see. Please Please Please!!! I am laughing so loud I am actually howling! Whitewolf. <hr></blockquote>

with all due respect, i have never heard you give a convincing howl, at least not one that a northern dog would recognize &lt;VBG&gt;

bluewolf

09-05-2002, 09:59 AM
Paul Potier, Alison Fisher, Gerda Hofstatter and Mike Massey host the week long "Pool School in Paradise" in Vancouver, Canada. There's a web site www.poolschoolinparadise.com. (http://www.poolschoolinparadise.com.)