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SecaucusFats
03-04-2005, 05:50 PM
Before you read this please understand that this is not about partisan politics. Left / right, liberal / conservative, it doesn't matter, we (all of us) Americans can equally share in a portion of the blame. The below is an excerpt from a recent article in the NY Times:

Is America still # 1?

* The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).

* The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

* Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).

* "The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78).

* Our workers are so ignorant and lack so many basic skills that American businesses spend $30 billion a year on remedial training (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). No wonder they relocate elsewhere!

* "The European Union leads the U.S. in...the number of science and engineering graduates; public research and development (R&D) expenditures; and new capital raised" (The European Dream, p.70).

* "Europe surpassed the United States in the mid-1990s as the largest producer of scientific literature" (The European Dream, p.70). * Nevertheless, Congress cut funds to the National Science Foundation. The agency will issue 1,000 fewer research grants this year (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004).

* Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28 percent last year. Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56 percent, Indians 51 percent, South Koreans 28 percent (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore.

* The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was]...37th." In the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less.

* "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a "developed" country? Anyway, that's the company we're keeping.

* Lack of health insurance coverage causes 18,000 unnecessary American deaths a year. (That's six times the number of people killed on 9/11.) (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005.)

* "U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

* Twelve million American families--more than 10 percent of all U.S. households--"continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves." Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004). Advertisement

* The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

* Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

* The leading cause of death of pregnant women in this country is murder (CNN, Dec. 14, 2004).

* "Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its workforce in the 1980s.... In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1 percent" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time.

* "Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69).

* "Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European.... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European.... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering and construction company is included among the world's top nine competitors. In food and consumer products, Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies...are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top ten. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.68).

* The United States has lost 1.3 million jobs to China in the last decade (CNN, Jan. 12, 2005). * U.S. employers eliminated 1 million jobs in 2004 (The Week, Jan. 14, 2005).

* Three million six hundred thousand Americans ran out of unemployment insurance last year; 1.8 million--one in five--unemployed workers are jobless for more than six months (NYT, Jan. 9, 2005).

* Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). <font color="brown">Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture. </font color>

* Sometime in the next 10 years Brazil will probably pass the U.S. as the world's largest agricultural producer. Brazil is now the world's largest exporter of chickens, orange juice, sugar, coffee, and tobacco. Last year, Brazil passed the U.S. as the world's largest beef producer. As a result, while we bear record trade deficits, Brazil boasts a $30 billion trade surplus (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

* As of last June, the U.S. imported more food than it exported (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

* Bush: 62,027,582 votes. Kerry: 59,026,003 votes. <font color="brown">Number of eligible voters who didn't show up: 79,279,000 (NYT, Dec. 26, 2004). That's more than a third. Way more. If more than a third of Iraqis don't show for their election, no country in the world will think that election legitimate.
</font color>

* One-third of all U.S. children are born out of wedlock. One-half of all U.S. children will live in a one-parent house (CNN, Dec. 10, 2004).

* "Americans are now spending more money on gambling than on movies, videos, DVDs, music, and books combined" (The European Dream, p.28).

* "Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

* "Nearly 900,000 children were abused or neglected in 2002, the last year for which such data are available" (USA Today, Dec. 21, 2004).

* "The International Association of Chiefs of Police said that cuts by the [Bush] administration in federal aid to local police agencies have left the nation more vulnerable than ever" (USA Today, Nov. 17, 2004).

No. 1? In most important categories we're not even in the Top 10 anymore. Not even close.

What a damned shame! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Cueless Joey
03-04-2005, 07:07 PM
We're in trouble.
I go to high schools frequently.
Kids are getting dumber by the day.
I blame MTV, Michael Jordan, Madonna, Britney Spears, our educators and parents.

PQQLK9
03-04-2005, 07:12 PM
Michael Jordan ???

Cueless Joey
03-04-2005, 08:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> Michael Jordan ??? <hr /></blockquote>
Sure, Michael Jordan.
How many kids spent $100+ for Air instead of saving that money for college? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
There was a special on tv about the Jordanizing of the youth in this nation. They could dribble opposite handed but were dumb as a doorknob. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PQQLK9
03-04-2005, 09:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> Michael Jordan ??? <hr /></blockquote>
Sure, Michael Jordan.
How many kids spent $100+ for Air instead of saving that money for college? /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
There was a special on tv about the Jordanizing of the youth in this nation. They could dribble opposite handed but were dumb as a doorknob. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Ugh ...ok, I thought maybe he had raped ,robbed, or killed somebody. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I bought a pair of the uglyest air jordans ever made. Course I ain't too smart either and never could dribble without looking. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

pooltchr
03-05-2005, 05:06 AM
I've seen you dribble when you are shooting pool. You really should keep a napkin nearby! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

JK, Nick....and for anyone who doesn't know Nick, don't believe that "not too smart" comment!

dbankjr
03-06-2005, 12:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> Before you read this please understand that this is not about partisan politics. Left / right, liberal / conservative, it doesn't matter, we (all of us) Americans can equally share in a portion of the blame. The below is an excerpt from a recent article in the NY Times:

Is America still # 1?

* The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).

* The United States ranked 28th out of 40 countries in mathematical literacy (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

* Twenty percent of Americans think the sun orbits the earth. Seventeen percent believe the earth revolves around the sun once a day (The Week, Jan. 7, 2005).

* "The International Adult Literacy Survey...found that Americans with less than nine years of education 'score worse than virtually all of the other countries'" (Jeremy Rifkin's superbly documented book The European Dream: How Europe's Vision of the Future Is Quietly Eclipsing the American Dream, p.78).

* Our workers are so ignorant and lack so many basic skills that American businesses spend $30 billion a year on remedial training (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004). No wonder they relocate elsewhere!

* "The European Union leads the U.S. in...the number of science and engineering graduates; public research and development (R&amp;D) expenditures; and new capital raised" (The European Dream, p.70).

* "Europe surpassed the United States in the mid-1990s as the largest producer of scientific literature" (The European Dream, p.70). * Nevertheless, Congress cut funds to the National Science Foundation. The agency will issue 1,000 fewer research grants this year (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004).

* Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28 percent last year. Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56 percent, Indians 51 percent, South Koreans 28 percent (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore.

* The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was]...37th." In the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less.

* "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a "developed" country? Anyway, that's the company we're keeping.

* Lack of health insurance coverage causes 18,000 unnecessary American deaths a year. (That's six times the number of people killed on 9/11.) (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005.)

* "U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

* Twelve million American families--more than 10 percent of all U.S. households--"continue to struggle, and not always successfully, to feed themselves." Families that "had members who actually went hungry at some point last year" numbered 3.9 million (NYT, Nov. 22, 2004). Advertisement

* The United States is 41st in the world in infant mortality. Cuba scores higher (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

* Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

* The leading cause of death of pregnant women in this country is murder (CNN, Dec. 14, 2004).

* "Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its workforce in the 1980s.... In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1 percent" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time.

* "Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69).

* "Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European.... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European.... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering and construction company is included among the world's top nine competitors. In food and consumer products, Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies...are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top ten. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.68).

* The United States has lost 1.3 million jobs to China in the last decade (CNN, Jan. 12, 2005). * U.S. employers eliminated 1 million jobs in 2004 (The Week, Jan. 14, 2005).

* Three million six hundred thousand Americans ran out of unemployment insurance last year; 1.8 million--one in five--unemployed workers are jobless for more than six months (NYT, Jan. 9, 2005).

* Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). <font color="brown">Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture. </font color>

* Sometime in the next 10 years Brazil will probably pass the U.S. as the world's largest agricultural producer. Brazil is now the world's largest exporter of chickens, orange juice, sugar, coffee, and tobacco. Last year, Brazil passed the U.S. as the world's largest beef producer. As a result, while we bear record trade deficits, Brazil boasts a $30 billion trade surplus (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

* As of last June, the U.S. imported more food than it exported (NYT, Dec. 12, 2004).

* Bush: 62,027,582 votes. Kerry: 59,026,003 votes. <font color="brown">Number of eligible voters who didn't show up: 79,279,000 (NYT, Dec. 26, 2004). That's more than a third. Way more. If more than a third of Iraqis don't show for their election, no country in the world will think that election legitimate.
</font color>

* One-third of all U.S. children are born out of wedlock. One-half of all U.S. children will live in a one-parent house (CNN, Dec. 10, 2004).

* "Americans are now spending more money on gambling than on movies, videos, DVDs, music, and books combined" (The European Dream, p.28).

* "Nearly one out of four Americans [believe] that using violence to get what they want is acceptable" (The European Dream, p.32).

* "Nearly 900,000 children were abused or neglected in 2002, the last year for which such data are available" (USA Today, Dec. 21, 2004).

* "The International Association of Chiefs of Police said that cuts by the [Bush] administration in federal aid to local police agencies have left the nation more vulnerable than ever" (USA Today, Nov. 17, 2004).

No. 1? In most important categories we're not even in the Top 10 anymore. Not even close.

What a damned shame! /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

<hr /></blockquote>


Yeah it is a damn shame..and it all started as being non political right?..no finger pointing at all right...

dbankjr
03-06-2005, 01:23 AM
I can't help it. Maybe I'll show my ass but I really don't care. But the day you couldn't make your child realize who was in charge our country changed. The people you see in the grocery store counting to their children when they misbehave, "one, two, three"...does it piss you off?..it does me! I was raised by the rod..and my opinion it's been spared way too much! In my opinion yes it is all of our fault, becoming too distant from our childrens lives, expecting that the school systems are going to teach our children all they need to know..no involvment which I am very guilty of myself..APATHY....But also not having to be accountable for your own actions. Too many people looking at the mailbox for their paychecks and the children seeing that is what life is. Then you have one party wanting that existense to survive for the vote. Rather than teaching them to fish...here's some cheese...and then saying well we meant well. Good intentions being their format but all the while wanting their vote, dumbing down requirements for qualifications into the same sector that more qualified individual might could have, should have had. Sorry if this seems hateful, its not meant to be..it's just my opinion.
The need for survival has been taken away and replaced with lack of individual responsibility....

pooltchr
03-06-2005, 06:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dbankjr:</font><hr> The need for survival has been taken away and replaced with lack of individual responsibility.... <hr /></blockquote>

So True!!! There is an attitude of Entitlement that is killing this country. "I'm entitled to that job because I am a woman, gay, Indian, black, unwed mother, polish, white middle class, unemployed, or whatever catagory you think makes you entitled".
When we can stop blaming others and accept responsibility for our own actions, maybe things will change. I sincerely hope so, but must admit I have my doubts. We must stop thinking we are "owed" something, and start trying to earn our way through life again.
Steve
(My above comment was not meant to offend anyone and was just used as an example, but I'm also tired of having to be so politically correct in everything we do or say. No one is entitled to go through life without being offended either!)

Popcorn
03-06-2005, 10:37 AM
I would blame most of that on our immigration practices. We seem to attract every dead beat looking for a hand out or opportunist from every country around the world. They come here and they figure into those numbers. A majority of Americans who have been here for generations would not figure in to that. We are becoming the trash heap of the world. I would like to deport a lot of those people. That report does not really reflect "Real" Americans.

Popcorn
03-06-2005, 10:44 AM
It is a problem because they live in a fantasy they will be basketball players or rappers instead of having real goals. When they realize the realities that life is not like that, for many it is too late.

SecaucusFats
03-06-2005, 12:05 PM
This is one of my favorite Country songs by Montgomery Gentry. I think it sums it up pretty well:

You Do Your Thing

Put me on a mountain, way back in the back woods
Put me on a lake with a biggin' on the line
Put me 'round a campfire cookin' something I just cleaned
You do your thing, I'll do mine

I ain't tradin' in my family's safety
Just to save a little gas
And I'll pray to God any place, any time
And you can bet I'll pick up the phone if Uncle Sam calls me up
You do your thing, I'll do mine

Hey, I'll worry about me
You just worry about you
And I'll believe what I believe
And you believe what you believe too

I ain't gonna spare the rod
Cuz that ain't what my daddy did
And I sure know the difference between wrong and right
You know, to me it's all just common sense
A broken rule, a consequence
You do your thing, I'll do mine

Hey, I'll worry about me
You just worry about you
And I'll believe what I believe
And you believe what you believe too

I'm gonna keep on working hard
Make my money the old-fashioned way
I don't wanna piece of someone else's pie
If I don't get my fill on life I ain't gonna blame no one but me
You do your thing, I'll do mine

You ain't gonna be my judge
Cuz my judge will judge us all one day
You do your thing, I'll do mine

Cueless Joey
03-06-2005, 12:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I would blame most of that on our immigration practices. We seem to attract every dead beat looking for a hand out or opportunist from every country around the world. <hr /></blockquote>
Pop, I would dare to say most of the foreigners on welfare come from one or two countries only.
I think it might be "poltically incorrect" to start taking stats who dips into the welfare system more than anyone but it might be just a fair thing to do.

Stretch
03-06-2005, 07:29 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I would blame most of that on our immigration practices. We seem to attract every dead beat looking for a hand out or opportunist from every country around the world. <hr /></blockquote>
Pop, I would dare to say most of the foreigners on welfare come from one or two countries only.
I think it might be "poltically incorrect" to start taking stats who dips into the welfare system more than anyone but it might be just a fair thing to do. <hr /></blockquote>

In Holland there is no Wellfare. If you can't or won't find work the government will put you to work and tell you where to live. It might not be the best job, or the nicesest place but you are contributing. Service in the Military is mandatory for everyone for two years at the age of 18, and Mothers are paid to stay home with young children.

Just a few of the more "enlightened" concepts ( i think ) of other Country's. St.

Gayle in MD
03-06-2005, 07:44 PM
Popcorn,
I was thinking the very same thing as I read the list....
"I like to be in America
Everything free in America
Okay by me in America
I like to be in A-mer-eeee-ka"

Something should be done about illegal aliens, protecting our borders, health and education, all the things which have fallen by the wayside due to the raging Bush deficit and this stupid war.

Also, those who have worked hard all their lives, paid into Social Security, as an insurance for their retirement years, shouldn't be deprived of the promise to reap the benefits of that just because we have been invaded by illegal aliens who are on the take.

Two biggest problems, illegal aliens, and George Bush!

Gayle in Md, wasn't touched by purple fingers in Iraq, would rather have our men back who died overthere, and for what?

nAz
03-06-2005, 08:37 PM
yeah them god damn fu@king immirgrants!! they are ruining this country!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

Cueless Joey
03-06-2005, 11:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nAz:</font><hr> yeah them god damn fu@king immirgrants!! they are ruining this country!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif <hr /></blockquote>
They're not in the white house, senate or congress though. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
03-07-2005, 07:16 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> ...Something should be done about illegal aliens, protecting our borders, health and education, all the things which have fallen by the wayside due to the raging Bush deficit and this stupid war.
<hr /></blockquote>

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Two biggest problems, illegal aliens, and George Bush!... <hr /></blockquote>

One trick pony

hondo
03-07-2005, 07:35 AM
Our EDUCATORS???


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> Michael Jordan ??? <hr /></blockquote>

hondo
03-07-2005, 07:36 AM
All that plus re-electing Bush.

SecaucusFats
03-07-2005, 07:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> I would blame most of that on our immigration practices. We seem to attract every dead beat looking for a hand out or opportunist from every country around the world. They come here and they figure into those numbers. A majority of Americans who have been here for generations would not figure in to that. We are becoming the trash heap of the world. I would like to deport a lot of those people. That report does not really reflect "Real" Americans. <hr /></blockquote>

I don't know what immigration has to do with any of these:

* "The European Union leads the U.S. in...the number of science and engineering graduates; public research and development (R&amp;D) expenditures; and new capital raised" (The European Dream, p.70).

<font color="blue">Are immigrants keeping anyone from pursuing science and engineering degrees? </font color>

* "Europe surpassed the United States in the mid-1990s as the largest producer of scientific literature" (The European Dream, p.70). * Nevertheless, Congress cut funds to the National Science Foundation. The agency will issue 1,000 fewer research grants this year (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004).

<font color="blue"> Did immigrants cause Congress to cut funding for the Natinal Science Foundation? Do they keep somehow prevent research, or stop researchers from publishing scientific papers? </font color>

* Foreign applications to U.S. grad schools declined 28 percent last year. Foreign student enrollment on all levels fell for the first time in three decades, but increased greatly in Europe and China. Last year Chinese grad-school graduates in the U.S. dropped 56 percent, Indians 51 percent, South Koreans 28 percent (NYT, Dec. 21, 2004). We're not the place to be anymore.

<font color="blue">What do immigrants have to do with Asians or other foreigners choosing not to study in the US? Could it be that new rules and regulations instituted after 9/11 have precipitated the drop in their enrollment rates? </font color>

* The World Health Organization "ranked the countries of the world in terms of overall health performance, and the U.S. [was]...37th." In the fairness of health care, we're 54th. "The irony is that the United States spends more per capita for health care than any other nation in the world" (The European Dream, pp.79-80). Pay more, get lots, lots less.

<font color="blue"> Again I fail to see a connection to immigration. Yes, illegal immigrants place a burden on healthcare, but that alone does not account for the problem. </font color>

* "The U.S. and South Africa are the only two developed countries in the world that do not provide health care for all their citizens" (The European Dream, p.80). Excuse me, but since when is South Africa a "developed" country? Anyway, that's the company we're keeping.

<font color="blue">Again what do immigrants legal or otherwise have to do with this issue. BTW, socialized healthcare is not the only way that the government could ensure universal availability of services. </font color>

* Lack of health insurance coverage causes 18,000 unnecessary American deaths a year. (That's six times the number of people killed on 9/11.) (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005.)

<font color="blue"> Recent immigrants and illegals account for a fair portion of the uninsured, but to be fair, native born Americans form the vast majority. </font color>

* "U.S. childhood poverty now ranks 22nd, or second to last, among the developed nations. Only Mexico scores lower" (The European Dream, p.81). Been to Mexico lately? Does it look "developed" to you? Yet it's the only "developed" country to score lower in childhood poverty.

<font color="blue"> To be sure, many immigrant children live in poverty, but again there are far more "white" and African American children living in poverty. </font color>

* Women are 70 percent more likely to die in childbirth in America than in Europe (NYT, Jan. 12, 2005).

<font color="blue"> How are immigrants to blame for this? </font color>

* The leading cause of death of pregnant women in this country is murder (CNN, Dec. 14, 2004).

<font color="blue">The majority are murdered by boyfriends or husbands. I know of no immigrant gang that specifically targets pregnant American women for execution, do you? </font color>

* "Of the 20 most developed countries in the world, the U.S. was dead last in the growth rate of total compensation to its workforce in the 1980s.... In the 1990s, the U.S. average compensation growth rate grew only slightly, at an annual rate of about 0.1 percent" (The European Dream, p.39). Yet Americans work longer hours per year than any other industrialized country, and get less vacation time.

<font color="blue"> Blame corporate America. They love to promote "productivity" (more work for less pay) while giving each other exhorbitant bonuses, and "golden parachutes". This has nothing to do with immigrants. </font color>

* "Sixty-one of the 140 biggest companies on the Global Fortune 500 rankings are European, while only 50 are U.S. companies" (The European Dream, p.66). "In a recent survey of the world's 50 best companies, conducted by Global Finance, all but one were European" (The European Dream, p.69).

<font color="blue">Gee, could this have something to with the management of these companies? </font color>

* "Fourteen of the 20 largest commercial banks in the world today are European.... In the chemical industry, the European company BASF is the world's leader, and three of the top six players are European. In engineering and construction, three of the top five companies are European.... The two others are Japanese. Not a single American engineering and construction company is included among the world's top nine competitors. In food and consumer products, Nestlé and Unilever, two European giants, rank first and second, respectively, in the world. In the food and drugstore retail trade, two European companies...are first and second, and European companies make up five of the top ten. Only four U.S. companies are on the list" (The European Dream, p.68).

<font color="blue">Again, how can this be blamed on immigrants? I don't know of any illegals running banks, industrial giants, or financial services giants. </font color>

* The United States has lost 1.3 million jobs to China in the last decade (CNN, Jan. 12, 2005). * U.S. employers eliminated 1 million jobs in 2004 (The Week, Jan. 14, 2005).

<font color="blue"> Yeah,it's a conspiracy by the immigrants to send jobs to China. </font color>

* Three million six hundred thousand Americans ran out of unemployment insurance last year; 1.8 million--one in five--unemployed workers are jobless for more than six months (NYT, Jan. 9, 2005).

* Japan, China, Taiwan, and South Korea hold 40 percent of our government debt. (That's why we talk nice to them.) "By helping keep mortgage rates from rising, China has come to play an enormous and little-noticed role in sustaining the American housing boom" (NYT, Dec. 4, 2004). Read that twice. We owe our housing boom to China, because they want us to keep buying all that stuff they manufacture.

<font color="blue">Immigrants forced Sam Walton to buy so much crap from China? Do they force everyone to buy the cheap Chinese junk they sell there too? Did immigrants force America to stop manufacturing consumer goods like TV's, electronics, microwaves, etc.? Did they force Detroit to manufacture poorly designed, crappy cars that nobody wanted to buy? </font color>

<font color="blue">Yes, there is a problem with ILLEGAL immigration, but when you start to generalize by painting all immigrants (and be honest you are couching your words here, you mean Latinos) as the source of all of the country's ills you are heading down a slippery slope my friend.

I am an immigrant and and American. I graduated college (Summa [censored] Laude), my sister is a college professor, my cousin is a very succesful businessman, my relatives (immigrants) include a Cardiologist, a Neuro-surgeon, a Bio-researcher and various skilled trades contractors.

<font color="blue">Latinos are overepresented in our military, they are out there fighting bravely and dying so that we can all be free here at home, does their immigrant status make them any less worthy of our admiration and respect?
</font color>
There are others here like myself who take great pride in our roots, our accomplishments, and our American citizenship. I take great umbrage at unwarranted pot-shots against immigrants in general.

There is a line in Deutoronomy which says: "Be kind to strangers, for ye were once strangers in the land of Egypt." </font color>

DickLeonard
03-07-2005, 08:20 AM
See Fats I knew you were hiding your intelligence behind a pool cue.####

Gayle in MD
03-07-2005, 08:49 AM
Hey Fats,
If only the influx of illegal immigrants were all like you and your sister, who are BTW, LEGAL...

Unfortunately, they aren't. Our schools are greatly affected by the influx of students who don't even speak English.

Health care and many other issues are also affected.

In the Washington D.C. area, crime has gone through the roof, and I am sorry to have to say this, but the names of the law breakers in the papers, and on the news, are largely Spanish/Mexican names. I don't consider myself to be at all racist, but really, it is very obvious what impact the illegal immigrants are having in the Washington D C area, and the suburbs in neighboring Arlington, Alxandria Virginia, and Montgomery County. Fortunately I am farther out, near the Bay, but I can tell you that although our great country was founded on immigration, the unchecked illegal immigration is helping Bush (The idiot) to destroy our country, as if he deeded any help !

58,000 died in Vietnam
What are we up to now in Iraq, over 150,000, and all for what? Where is the outrage????

Gayle in MD
03-07-2005, 08:55 AM
Pot Shot Sniper...

PQQLK9
03-07-2005, 08:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hondo:</font><hr> Our EDUCATORS???


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote PQQLK9:</font><hr> Michael Jordan ??? <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

Maybe you should get a new "Shoe" deal and reduce the price on your "Air Hondos" /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

DickLeonard
03-07-2005, 09:00 AM
Gayle I am in Boston and was reading the letters to the editor and an op ed piece. One letter from a 33 year Gillette employee whose retirement was being cut by P@G, the new owners while the President of the Co. who was there 4 years received 174 million to sell the company, and President Bush wants private accounts so the Smart can rob from the dumb. It is bad enuff that the Gov plays games with the powerless. All one has to do is read None Dare all it Conspiracy, the book is probably 25 years old up to that time no law [42753] had ever been passed to benefit a poor man.####

SnakebyteXX
03-07-2005, 09:04 AM
SecaucusFats -

Extraordinarily well written post.

Well said and well put.

Kudos to you, sir.

Snake

Cueless Joey
03-07-2005, 11:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]

* The United States is 49th in the world in literacy (the New York Times, Dec. 12, 2004).
<hr /></blockquote>
It's going to get worse.
A school I go to often has the second lowest test score in the district.
The teacher there told me some of her students don't read or write English. She has to have them sit to another student who speaks English.
The school does not turn these kids away b/c they want the funding. Nobody is left behind either.

Deeman2
03-07-2005, 01:31 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> 58,000 died in Vietnam
What are we up to now in Iraq, over 150,000, and all for what? Where is the outrage????
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> 1,500 </font color>

Gayle in MD
03-07-2005, 06:01 PM
Sorry, we have lost over 1500 lives in Iraq, I think it is now over 1,600, but we have over 150,000 of our men there, with no plan for leaving. How many years will our men be there, and how many will die all told?

So glad I didn't vote for Bush!
Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
03-07-2005, 06:14 PM
That is happening all over, too. Everything bush does, hurts the poor, and middle class Americans, and helps the rich to rob our country and our people.

The Republicans in the Congress and the Senate are up there this week fighting to avoid raising the minimum wage a measley dollar or two, but they didn't have any trouble raising their own salaries $28,000.

No child left behind is a miserable failure. This war is a joke, we have a raging deficit, all that isn't enough, he's got to destroy the best and only programs that helped senior citizens to make ends meet, and maintain their dignity.

I would be ashamed to have to admit that I voted for this idiot.

Gayle in Md.

SecaucusFats
03-07-2005, 08:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Sorry, we have lost over 1500 lives in Iraq, I think it is now over 1,600, but we have over 150,000 of our men there, with no plan for leaving. How many years will our men be there, and how many will die all told?

So glad I didn't vote for Bush!
Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

Our military will be in Iraq for as long as it takes to ensure the success of the mission, and not one day less nor one day more. As many will die as it takes to accomplish the mission. The men and women of our Armed Forces are volunteer professionals. War is what they train for, it is what they get paid for, they know that going in.

Enjoy this article:

Time for a dose of Dr. No
US News and World Report
John Leo

Dr. No, you have achieved superstar status in a very competitive field--negativity and pessimism. How have you achieved that, Doctor?

The way I see it, every silver lining contains a new cloud. You just have to look for it. Maybe you noticed that right after the Iraqi elections, when most people were euphoric, half the reporters in New York and Washington started waving around a 1967 news clipping, headlined "U.S. Encouraged by Vietnam Vote, Officials Cite 83 pct. Turnout Despite Vietcong Terror." It was all over the Internet, too. That was me. It was a twofer--deflating optimism and comparing Iraq to Vietnam, always a trump card in my profession. I also got Teddy Kennedy to demand an exit strategy right on the eve of the voting. When optimism threatens to break out, I usually look for Ted.

Good idea. I thought you did a nice job on the walk-up to the elections, about how the vote would be small and therefore illegitimate, the U.S. didn't have enough troops to guard the polls, mass violence would probably break out, and maybe we were headed for a theocracy or a civil war.

Thanks. Nobody works harder than us negativity professionals, though it's true that the actual voting turned out badly for us. The biggest blow was that the Arab press reported positively on the vote. As you know, previously the most recent positive reports in the Arab media were all in the eighth century. But we still had a big impact. I was particularly proud of one postelection newspaper report in New York, "Premature Jubilation as Iraqis Go to Polls." It complained that Shiites took voting instructions from their leaders, the Kurds had only one slate, and some association of Muslim scholars had declared the voting illegitimate. Everything that anybody could view as wrong was piled into one doom-and-gloom article. I loved it. Working to tamp down premature jubilation is what our profession is all about.

Tell us about some of your other efforts in Iraq.

Well, we recommended stressing the daily count of dead American soldiers. We also pioneered all those references to terrorist attacks as "the bloodiest since" some day or other--January 1, maybe, or any date picked at random, like Lincoln's Birthday or Groundhog Day. Nice. Nobody thought to make that "bloodiest since" comparison during World War II or Vietnam. It's been a big breakthrough. Now we're working on the theme that American soldiers murdered a lot of journalists in Iraq, but people tend to want evidence when you bring that up, so it's a problem. We've also generated two years' worth of claims that Iraqi women are no better off and in some cases worse off today than they were under Saddam. Of course under Saddam they were turned over to rape squads, sexually tortured, and beheaded. So we have some work to do there.

Weren't you afraid that the Iraqi vote would make Bush look good?

That's been a tough one. A lot of folks have been looking forward to a collapse in Iraq, so they could gloat over President Bush's failure. But rooting for your own country to lose a war doesn't seem to play well in the media for some reason. When the Soviet Union fell apart, to deny Reagan any credit, we pushed the idea that it would have happened anyway. Iraq has been a mess, but things seem to be going Bush's way, and we can't say he didn't shake up the Middle East just as he said he would.

So how are you handling things, given the uprising in Lebanon, the pro-election noises in Egypt and Saudi Arabia, democracy restored in Ukraine, restiveness in Iran, and the brightening prospect of a deal between Israelis and Palestinians?

Well, we're trying a bit of it-would-have-happened-anyway to keep from crediting Bush. We're also suggesting mixed press reports saying that, yes, there are signs of optimism, but disaster may be right around the corner. Just look at all the headlines that included "New Promise of Democracy and Threat of Instability" and "Iraq's Election, Its Outcome Murky, Is Seen as a 'Jungle of Ambiguity.' " "Future Looks Bright But Is Really Bleak" would be our ideal headline. We're taking our usual doom-and-gloom predictions and gluing them on the end of the optimistic reports. This is just an interim strategy, mind you. The Druze leader in Lebanon, Walid Jumblatt, said he had been cynical about elections in Iraq, but the democratic revolt is spreading. He said, "The Syrian people, the Egyptian people, all are saying that something is changing. The Berlin Wall has fallen. We can see it." So you can see what we're up against. We badly need a new infusion of pessimism. Maybe I should just call Teddy again.


I'm damned glad I voted for Bush!

Keith Talent
03-07-2005, 08:20 PM
Good posts, SF ...

But it seems to me anybody can point to a factor or two that's bringing down the country and be at least half-right, whether it's uncontrolled immigration, wild economic inequality, moral decline of all kinds, ignorance, laziness, whatever.

I think the bigger picture's hard to make out, but I think we've become more of a market than a nation. What are our core values? We don't even have a language. We're a great grab bag that has become the Mecca of Money. Anything that serves the piling up of big bucks, a majority of nitwits will bow down to. People like to say, That's how it is, life's tough, pal, blah, blah. Well, we've sure made it that way ... at least for the 95% of folks who aren't absolutely loaded.

eg8r
03-08-2005, 07:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The Republicans in the Congress and the Senate are up there this week fighting to avoid raising the minimum wage a measley dollar or two, but they didn't have any trouble raising their own salaries $28,000.
<hr /></blockquote> Whether or not they are giving themselves raises (which I generally don't agree with), I still don't agree with raising minimum wage. By using the word measley, it also shows you might not be thinking about the whole situation and all the ramifications of the increase.

[ QUOTE ]
This war is a joke, <hr /></blockquote> I have to admit, I just cut this portion out and hopefully not use it out of context...Your entire rant is a joke. When you make statements like the one I quoted above, you are making a perfect example of yourself as someone who refuses to open your eyes and see REALITY. The war has been far from a joke.

To me, the real joke was when you stated 58,000 died in Vietnam and 150,000 died in Iraq. Only, then does someone point out it has only been 1500. BIG DIFFERENCE. It also, shows the complete ridiculousness (is this a word) for even comparing it to Vietnam (58,000-1500). This is not the first time this sort of mistake has happened, so it leads me to wonder if the rest of your rant is as exaggerated.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
03-08-2005, 07:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Everything bush does, hurts the poor, and middle class Americans, and helps the rich to rob our country and our people.

<hr /></blockquote>

Would you please be more specific? Are you talking about the tax cuts? How does an across-the-board tax cut hurt the middle-class? I don't even include the poor because they don't pay income taxes.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
..... all that isn't enough, he's got to destroy the best and only programs that helped senior citizens to make ends meet, and maintain their dignity.
<hr /></blockquote>

Are you saying Bush wants to destroy SS? Why would you say such a thing? Where's the political payback for anybody to destroy SS? Have you ever heard one single politician come out and say he wanted to get rid of SS? Do you think anybody is that stupid?

PQQLK9
03-08-2005, 08:23 AM
Arrrgh politics again ??? Maybe I should reactivate the Word Association Thread. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Keith Talent
03-08-2005, 08:27 AM
Come on, Wally ... just cause Bush and the gang aren't dumb enough to say outright that they want to destroy SS, or to steal a good chunk of it, doesn't mean they aren't trying to do exactly that.

What do you righties say about the folks who want a little gun control? Yep, what they really want is to ban them altogether. And that's probably true. Same goes for what outraged feminists say about those who want to make it more difficult to get abortions ... most of that crowd would outlaw almost all of them if they had the chance.

The GOP's on a scary road these days ... rugged individualism's a fine thing out on the frontier, but in the burbs, or the city? Just sets everybody at war with one another ... we can't turn back the clock to the 1870s, no matter how bad they want to. Unless we're as stoopid as those stats in the article quoted above say we are.

DickLeonard
03-08-2005, 09:12 AM
Fats if you think a National Guardsman is qualified to fight a war, I am taking back your Intelligence Award. If GWBush wasn't qualified in the VietNam War and probably more than $100,000 was spent to train him as a jet pilot. No guardsmen should be fighting overseas.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-08-2005, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> Come on, Wally ... just cause Bush and the gang aren't dumb enough to say outright that they want to destroy SS, or to steal a good chunk of it, doesn't mean they aren't trying to do exactly that.
<hr /></blockquote>

Keith,

The proposition is to give you an option to invest 2% of your 15% SS contribution in a private account. And it's optional.

If you can contrue that as wanting to destroy SS then I guess I don't understand your thought process.

Did I mention it's optional ?

BTW your boys Clinton and Reid were making noise about the exact same thing back in the 90's.

DickLeonard
03-08-2005, 10:48 AM
I can excuse a typo and anyone who thinks Gayle meant 150,000 is a nit picker. Have you enlisted in the Service
so you can go over to Irag to help out. Age is no problem any more 60 year old N.G men are there fighting and dying.
A Reservist with 11 kids and one on the way was sent there.

What person in there wright mind would deploy that man his death would cost this country hundreds of thousands in SS
survivor benefits. ####

eg8r
03-08-2005, 11:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I can excuse a typo and anyone who thinks Gayle meant 150,000 is a nit picker. Have you enlisted in the Service
so you can go over to Irag to help out. Age is no problem any more 60 year old N.G men are there fighting and dying.
A Reservist with 11 kids and one on the way was sent there.

What person in there wright mind would deploy that man his death would cost this country hundreds of thousands in SS
survivor benefits. #### <hr /></blockquote> Does any of this have to do with what I posted (except for the mention of the 150k) or are you trailing off again? As far as the 150k, I understood it was a typo, and if you would concentrate on everything I wrote you would have understood that. Instead you were nitpicking a little portion. I was quite clear that I understood she meant 1500, and that was why the mention of Vietnam was ridiculous. Much like your reply. For once, take a second to read my post and try and understand what is being said before you make a reply the one you just made.

My post mentioned the comment that the war was a joke, and I disagreed. Get your head out of the sand and off your soapbox and at least reply to the subject matter of what I posted. The war has been far from a joke and has been quite successful. You are greatly ignoring the whole outcome of the war. I would call that being a nit.

eg8r

Keith Talent
03-08-2005, 11:42 AM
Wally,

Sure it's optional and it's only whatever percent it is ... now. But it's a way of getting a foothold .... years will go by, there be a whole bunch of spinning, the education system will work its wonders, there'll be changes in the law, and a lot of folks will end up way worse off when they retire than they do now. And it'll be the gov't who'll have conned them into it, not Vegas or Wall Street (only by proxy) ...

Wally_in_Cincy
03-08-2005, 12:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Keith Talent:</font><hr> Wally,

Sure it's optional and it's only whatever percent it is ... now. But it's a way of getting a foothold .... years will go by, there be a whole bunch of spinning, the education system will work its wonders, there'll be changes in the law, and a lot of folks will end up way worse off when they retire than they do now. And it'll be the gov't who'll have conned them into it, not Vegas or Wall Street (only by proxy) ...

<hr /></blockquote>

So do you have a better option?

Keep raising taxes and cutting behefits ad infinitum?

Keith Talent
03-08-2005, 02:19 PM
Wish I did, Wally ... then I'd have a cushy think tank job somewhere, preferably on the upper West Side.

But until we do come up with some better way of divvying up the pie -- the biggest one in the world -- delaying benefits for a few months, up to the age of 70 wouldn't be the worst thing. Lifespans are getting longer ... and who's actually retiring at 65 anymore? Compared with gambling on the market to keep up its pace of recent years, I'd rather see em patch it up for awhile.

DickLeonard
03-08-2005, 05:04 PM
Eg8r GWB start plotting the war on 2/15/01 having the Security agents looking for a reason to go to War with Irag.
WE spent nearly 400 billion to give Irag the right to vote and if the Blacks in Florida were given the right to vote GWB would not be President.

Everything about this mess stinks. Can you imagine getting 12,000 for losing your life fighting in Iraq. ####

catscradle
03-09-2005, 05:46 AM
“I have seen the enemy and it is us.”

Walk in Walmart and start looking at tags, almost everything says "Made in China".

I got an 9 on the break patch from the APA, on the back was a "Made in China" sticker. That would be the AMERICAN Poolplayers Association, I would guess 75% of it's members are working class people afraid of losing their jobs overseas.

We spend too much money we don't have. Both individually and collectively via the government.

We simultaneously spoil and neglect our kids.

We are incredibly selfish.

We may be still #1 because of we still have a big bankroll from the years when we were the #1 performer, but that bankroll is shrinking. Even when we blow all our manafacturing we'll still have the world's biggest bread basket, but that's being taken over by big global corporations. We'll still have a major portion of the world's natural resources, but that will also be controlled by major corporations.

I think the next generation will one day wake up and find they have a very tough row to hoe.

eg8r
03-09-2005, 06:09 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Eg8r GWB start plotting the war on 2/15/01 having the Security agents looking for a reason to go to War with Irag.
WE spent nearly 400 billion to give Irag the right to vote and if the Blacks in Florida were given the right to vote GWB would not be President.

Everything about this mess stinks. Can you imagine getting 12,000 for losing your life fighting in Iraq. ####
<hr /></blockquote> Whether you approve of the war is not the issue. Whether you have no proof the blacks could not vote was not the issue. Take your head out of the sand, open your eyes, and use your brain for a second. The war was not a disaster.

LOL, you are as bad as Q. You don't want to talk to the issue of the thread (at least this branch of the thread). You want to throw in other crap that has nothing to do with the thread so that you can divert attention away from the FACT that you have no intelligent defense of this war being disatrous/failure, or whatever the current slogan is from Gayle.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
03-09-2005, 06:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Everything bush does, hurts the poor, and middle class Americans, and helps the rich to rob our country and our people.

<hr /></blockquote>

Would you please be more specific? Are you talking about the tax cuts? How does an across-the-board tax cut hurt the middle-class? I don't even include the poor because they don't pay income taxes.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
..... all that isn't enough, he's got to destroy the best and only programs that helped senior citizens to make ends meet, and maintain their dignity.
<hr /></blockquote>

Are you saying Bush wants to destroy SS? Why would you say such a thing? Where's the political payback for anybody to destroy SS? Have you ever heard one single politician come out and say he wanted to get rid of SS? Do you think anybody is that stupid?

<hr /></blockquote>

I guess I'm a drive-by sniper because Gayle refuses to engage in a debate. She is much better at tossing out unfounded theories and insults and then refusing to back them up.

DickLeonard
03-09-2005, 08:33 AM
Eg8r I posted before anyone who posts in between the other persons post I don't read that post. I read the first paragraph and then stopped reading. ####

Gayle in MD
03-09-2005, 08:45 AM
Ed, for heaens sake, my point was, is, how many years did we fight in Vietnam? How long have we been in Iraq? How much longer will we be in Iraq? In my opinion, many more years, and many many more American men will die.

Maybe some of you are dumb enough to think that we will no longer be attacked by terrorists as long as we continue to practice pre-emptive, occupations and promote democracy at gunpoint, and that our mission as a so called peaceful Nation is to threaten other countries who are obtaining nuclear power with occupation and war, while retaining and/or increasing our own nuclear power, is the correct example and action for America to take, and to those Bush minded individuals I can only say, WHERE have YOU BEEN?

Does anyone remember the lessons of Vietnam?

In the Documentary, Fog of War, Robert McNamara puts forth principles of war, which are derived under the supposed historic facts of war, and the lessons which mankind SHOULD have come away with for future reference. You can take them one by one, and Bush has broken every valuable hard bought lesson and principle.

Have you seen it, Ed? Have you watched the documentary, "Bush's Brain" Have you seen, "Uncovered, the Truth about The War In Iraq" Did you, just out of curiosity of course, even take a look at Farenheight 911?

I don't know if you will answer truthfully, but I'd be willing to bet that you haven't seen any of them...why not check them out?

Bush is about protecting his rich Arab friends, creating a one party power, Republican, helping the rich get richer, and keeping us dependant on fossil fuel.... and this war is about oil and money and how to wheel and deal so that he and his rich friends can continue to run this country, and as much of the world as possible, period.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
03-09-2005, 09:14 AM
Walley,
Why is it that you can't discuss anything about the Idiot in the White House without bringing up Clinton?

Bush has put our economy into unchartered waters. If you compare our debt deficits and the interest on our debt, to our GNP, and the related interest, you will see that we haeve NEVER been in the situation we are in now. Never have foreign countries owned our debt as vastly as today.

As for SS, the costs of implementing the changes being promoted by Bush, and the republicans will increase our debt in the trillions.

Republicans want to put a republican face on the greatest program we have ever had.

We all know the numbers, and that changes must be made, and some realize that given our debt, our enemies, the volital nature of the stock market, the many many greedy crooks we have here and abroad, that last thing we want is to increase debt, exchange an insurance program over to a gamble, and particularly during a time when we are not in fact a rich country individually.

Bush raided the SS funds, and now he says it is urgent to fix it right away, and fix it by handing more of workers money over to the rich corporations, while republicans proceed to decrease our benefits.

Raise taxes for the rich, they won't even feel it. Look what they have enjoyed the last four years, compare number of extra dollars they get due to the tax cuts, to the number of dollars middle income America gets, and then add to that that these are the same SOB's who are selling American workers out for higher profits by sending jobs and money out of the country.

Gayle

Gayle in MD
03-09-2005, 09:59 AM
Ed,
Your post is very clear that you didn't see it as a typo!

Also, this war a far from a success!!! Massive bomgings today in Bagdad, over a year after Little Bushy jumped into his crotch straps and swaggered over to the podium yipping "Mission accomplished" What a JOKE!


Gayle

BTW, you could show a little respect to ####, why do you always have to be so curt toward other posters?

eg8r
03-09-2005, 10:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
BTW, you could show a little respect to ####, why do you always have to be so curt toward other posters? <hr /></blockquote> Has he done the same? Is he entitled some respect yet allowed to proceed without offering the same to others? That is how I view your request.

I really don't feel I am being disrespectful at all. I am not responding to him any different than I would any other poster here on the board.

eg8r

Gayle in MD
03-09-2005, 10:36 AM
Dick,
Don't pay any attention to him, he thinks he's the post police, /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle

Wally_in_Cincy
03-09-2005, 10:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Walley,
Why is it that you can't discuss anything about the Idiot in the White House without bringing up Clinton?
<hr /></blockquote>

I pointed out that Clinton. amongst other Dems, has been on record as advocating partial SS privatization. Do you think that is irrelevant to this discussion?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

Bush has put our economy into unchartered waters. If you compare our debt deficits and the interest on our debt, to our GNP, and the related interest, you will see that we haeve NEVER been in the situation we are in now. <hr /></blockquote>

For the record, the deficits, as a % of GNP, were larger during Vietnam, and way way larger during WWII and we somehow survived.

You will never convince me that Gore's deficit would have been smaller, given the same situation.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

As for SS, the costs of implementing the changes being promoted by Bush, and the republicans will increase our debt in the trillions.

<hr /></blockquote>

So what's the alternative? It's pay me now or pay me later.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

We all know the numbers, and that changes must be made, and some realize that given our debt, our enemies, the volital nature of the stock market, the many many greedy crooks we have here and abroad, that last thing we want is to increase debt, exchange an insurance program over to a gamble, and particularly during a time when we are not in fact a rich country individually.
<hr /></blockquote>

We are the richest country on the planet overall.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
Bush raided the SS funds, <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah you're right Gayle. Bush was the very first politician to spend the SS surplus. You are either blinded by hatred or incredibly ill-informed.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>

and now he says it is urgent to fix it right away, and fix it by handing more of workers money over to the rich corporations, <hr /></blockquote>

You are correct. We certainly don't want those rich corporations to have any of our money. Now that I think about it I'm going to sell all my stocks and put my money under my bed where those evil rich people can't get their hands on it.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
Raise taxes for the rich, they won't even feel it. <hr /></blockquote>

If you go to the well often enough eventually it runs dry. Besides, under what moral interpretation do you have the right to just take somebody's money solely because they have more than you?

eg8r
03-09-2005, 10:43 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ed, for heaens sake, my point was, is, how many years did we fight in Vietnam? <hr /></blockquote> Well, for heavens sake Gayle, why not just say that instead of hiding behind numbers that do not prove your point? I am not asking for much, but your posts lead us to think what we think you are saying and when we mention that you jump down our throats because you did not say it word for word. If you want to get a point across, do it clearly. I don't remember you ever mentioning years in Vietnam in comparison to Iraq, so what did you say, that I missed, that would lead me to believe this was your underlying reasoning?

[ QUOTE ]
...and that our mission as a so called peaceful Nation is to threaten other countries who are obtaining nuclear power with occupation and war ...<hr /></blockquote> Without bothering with the rest of this paragraph, I would like to hear your opinions on this portion of your post. I hope you don't mind me leading here for a second, but should we sit back and allow them to develop nuclear weapons? Would the world be safer (overall) if Iran, NK, and China developed nuclear weapons and pointed them at the US? If you bother to answer this question, please give some reasons why. Do you think we should move forward throughout the future from this point on and just chit chat with these countries? What is your definition of peace? Maybe if we get that out in the open we can understand what you are referring to.

[ QUOTE ]
Have you seen it, Ed? Have you watched the documentary, "Bush's Brain" Have you seen, "Uncovered, the Truth about The War In Iraq" Did you, just out of curiosity of course, even take a look at Farenheight 911?
<hr /></blockquote> Is there any GOOD reason to watch a perfectly biased program that has full intent on spinning the issues to make Bush look bad? Since you decided to mention the idiot Moore, I can throw out one from the right, have you read all of Ann Coulter's books? Don't ask me about whether I have read your biased books, if you refuse to.

[ QUOTE ]
and this war is about oil and money <hr /></blockquote> Care to offer proof.


eg8r

eg8r
03-09-2005, 10:46 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Eg8r I posted before anyone who posts in between the other persons post I don't read that post. I read the first paragraph and then stopped reading. #### <hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif If you would just stick to the topic, it would not matter when you posted.

eg8r

eg8r
03-09-2005, 10:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Dick,
Don't pay any attention to him, he thinks he's the post police, <hr /></blockquote> Is this the disrespect you were mentioning in another post? I asked him to stay on topic. Why is this such a tough request for you and some of the libs on this board.

eg8r

Wally_in_Cincy
03-09-2005, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
Maybe some of you are dumb enough to think.....that our mission as a so called peaceful Nation is to threaten other countries who are obtaining nuclear power with occupation and war, while retaining and/or increasing our own nuclear power, is the correct example and action for America to take..... <hr /></blockquote>

Quite frankly, in the case of Iran, we have no choice but to do just that. While you may not like it, because you carry around some sort of American guilt about our being the Big Dog on the planet, you better accept it.

Or would you prefer that our sworn enemies in Iran have a deliverable weapon that could be smuggled into NYC or launched via air at Israel?

You sound like John Kerry talking about research into bunker-busting nukes, "I'll shut that program down in a heartbeat"

Why?

Gayle in MD
03-09-2005, 11:23 AM
Tisk tisk tisk, Walley, Walley, get a grip.

Yeah, Walley, all of us who don't agree with the right, or the war, we just want to lie down and let the rest of the world trample over us.

There are problems to be solved, threats to be handled, no one says there are not. It is a matter of how they should be dealt with. Spreading hate and resentment towards our country is not the way. Statistics prove that our standing in the way the world views us has dropped since Bush has been in office, and in fact, is at an all time low, along with our surplus, our problem of debt is the worst ever, our country is more divided than ever, and apparently, Americans are dumber than ever, and I can prove it, they voted this idiot back into office, jeese!

Gayle

Gayle in MD
03-09-2005, 11:31 AM
Tisk tisk tisk, Walley, Walley, get a grip.

Yeah, Walley, all of us who don't agree with the right, or the war, we just want to lie down and let the rest of the world trample over us.

There are problems to be solved, threats to be handled, no one says there are not. It is a matter of how they should be dealt with. Spreading hate and resentment towards our country is not the way. Statistics prove that our standing in the way the world views us has dropped since Bush has been in office, and in fact, is at an all time low, along with our surplus, our problem of debt is the worst ever, our country is more divided than ever, and apparently, Americans are dumber than ever, and I can prove it, they voted this idiot back into office, jeese!

Do you really think that policing the world is going to protect us? I do not. I believe in building relationships with other countries, helping the starving millions, and the sick and dieing, using diplomacy instead of weaponry, and setting the example of restraint and resonable cooperation is far more valuable to the world peace than occupations and weapons.

Gayle

Gayle in MD
03-09-2005, 11:39 AM
Let me be perfectly clear. I am saying that republicans want to put a republican face on a successful democratic program that wouldn't have a problem if republicans would stop stealing from it and balance the G**damn budget!

AND, republicans want to tamper with it right now to help cover up the financial mess and resulting legacy they have made out of our financial circumstances!

Gayle

Gayle in MD
03-09-2005, 12:01 PM
Well Ed, the topic is, Is American still # 1...which could hardly be discussed without discussing Little Bushy.

If you would just stop telling everyone how to post, you'd be much happier!

Gayle in Md.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-09-2005, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Let me be perfectly clear. I am saying that republicans want to put a republican face on a successful democratic program that wouldn't have a problem if republicans would stop stealing from it and balance the G**damn budget!

AND, republicans want to tamper with it right now to help cover up the financial mess and resulting legacy they have made out of our financial circumstances!

Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

thanks

Wally_in_Cincy
03-09-2005, 12:13 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Walley, Walley,
<hr /></blockquote>


OK Gale.

"gale"

a. A very strong wind.

b. Any of four winds with speeds of from 32 to 63 miles (51 to 102 kilometers) per hour, according to the Beaufort scale.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-09-2005, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> ... Statistics prove that our standing in the way the world views us has dropped since Bush has been in office, and in fact, is at an all time low, along with our surplus, our problem of debt is the worst ever, our country is more divided than ever, and apparently, Americans are dumber than ever, and I can prove it, they voted this idiot back into office, jeese!

Gayle

<hr /></blockquote>

Bush Bush Bush Bush
Bush Bush Bush Bush
Bush Bush Bush Bush
Bush Bush Bush Bush
Bush Bush Bush Bush
Bush Bush Bush Bush
Bush Bush Bush Bush

LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Deeman2
03-09-2005, 12:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Tisk tisk tisk, Walley, Walley, get a grip.

Yeah, Walley, all of us who don't agree with the right, or the war, we just want to lie down and let the rest of the world trample over us. <font color="blue"> I agree that's what you want but can't for the life of me figure out why? </font color>

There are problems to be solved, threats to be handled, no one says there are not. It is a matter of how they should be dealt with. Spreading hate and resentment towards our country is not the way. <font color="blue"> Why do you equate popularity with our security in the world. At best in the past, we were disliked. Even in Clinton's time we were hated. </font color> Statistics prove that our standing in the way the world views us has dropped since Bush has been in office, and in fact, is at an all time low, along with our surplus, our problem of debt is the worst ever, our country is more divided than ever, and apparently, Americans are dumber than ever, and I can prove it, they voted this idiot back into office, jeese! <font color="blue"> So now, it's the left only that is smart enough to elect the right leader. Heck, you guys couldn't even pick a viable candidate. If everything you say about Bush is true, your next candidate, Hillary should have a breeze getting in. </font color>

Do you really think that policing the world is going to protect us? <font color="blue"> It seems to be working so far. </font color> I do not. I believe in building relationships with other countries, helping the starving millions, and the sick and dieing, using diplomacy instead of weaponry, and setting the example of restraint and resonable cooperation is far more valuable to the world peace than occupations and weapons. <font color="blue">May be, and I hope it comes to that one day. Now, it remains a pipe dream. Remember, the despots alway kill the leftists first. </font color>

Gayle

<hr /></blockquote>

Deeman

eg8r
03-10-2005, 11:03 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Let me be perfectly clear. I am saying that republicans want to put a republican face on a successful democratic program that wouldn't have a problem if republicans would stop stealing from it and balance the G**damn budget! <hr /></blockquote> Instead of being argumentative why not just state, POLITICIANS should leave it alone. Your post leads one to believe that only Reps have touched SS and that just is not true.

eg8r

eg8r
03-10-2005, 11:13 AM
Well Gayle, if for once you exhibited some understanding of topic I might be inclined to agree with you. Since this is not the case, I will continue to feel inclined to draw yourself and #### back to the topic just as much as I please. You really cannot do anything about it, except continue to stray but then you would be forced to reply in similar manner to your previous post. My guess is, you will wear out before I do and finally come full circle and stick to the topic.

Time will tell....

Besides all that, show a little respect for ####. He is a grown man and quite adept to answer for himself. I noticed you did not reply to my post in which I asked a few questions. Was arriving at a sensible, clear, answer too daunting a task? Oh nevermind, this has become a common trait for the liberal side of the board. If you are not answering the questions (to continue the debate) you are just changing the subject matter.

In a mild effort to make you feel comfortable to reply, how much longer in this thread will we go before you start attacking Condi? It is par for the course, right?

eg8r &lt;~~~oops, I might have been persuaded to assist in changing the subject matter. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
03-10-2005, 11:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Instead of being argumentative why not just state, POLITICIANS should leave it alone. Your post leads one to believe that only Reps have touched SS and that just is not true.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Whatever do you mean eg8r? Don't you know George Bush was the first President to raid the SS fund? Clinton and Gore had it in a locked box, under Tipper's bed.

This was all in Paul O'Neill's book. Don't you read books?

eg8r
03-10-2005, 11:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Whatever do you mean eg8r? Don't you know George Bush was the first President to raid the SS fund? Clinton and Gore had it in a locked box, under Tipper's bed.

This was all in Paul O'Neill's book. Don't you read books? <hr /></blockquote> Sure I read books, just not those of the liberal ilk. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif However, I do not remember Clarke mentioning any of this in the previous administration, so surely it NEVER EVER HAPPENED. Scouts honor. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Joking aside, it has been going on for quite some time. We all know it, except Gayle. The reason why it is rarely mentioned is because all sides are guilty.

eg8r

cheesemouse
03-10-2005, 02:40 PM
Ed,

I'm not sure if this is off subject or not...Sorry if it is Ed, I wouldn't want you to have a #hit connipsion. The origin of this thread and what it says about our America is the all out race to the bottom we are all taking part in. It is neither liberal or conservative; it is something else and it seems unavoidable..."Greece is Burning". Elect whoever you want it doesn't seem to make a difference...Now there is a downer attitude but founded in some reality....have a nice day.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Gayle in MD
03-11-2005, 07:51 AM
LMAO, well, that's the truth. You are curt with everyone who doesn't agree with your point of view. Tell me, is that a "Con" thing, as in neocon.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
03-11-2005, 09:29 AM
Oh, Okay, well then let me re-state the problem. None of the Presidents should dip into the Social Security fund.

AND, republicans should try to do what Clinton did, since you guys love to bring him up so much, and balance the budget.

Keep us out of War.

Make sure our armed forces don't sneak prisoners off where they can be tortured.

Avoid changing the Bankruptcy laws in a way that puts a burden on people who have suffered catestrophic illness and lost everything, or lost their jobs, and their health care from outsourcing, or are single mothers whose deadbeat husbands won't pay their child support, which amounts to a large number of the unfortunate folks who have to file for bankruptcy. Credit cards are one of the worst problems this country has. It is an industry which could use some investigatin for sure.

The tax "Reform" is UNFAIR to the middle class. 10% across the board does not allow for a simple principle of relativity, IOW, giving back $187,000.00 to a millionaire is a far cry from giving back $1,200.00 to a struggling family trying to just make ends meet, pay the bills and feed their kids.




This administration has turned us into a country who doesn't care about the Pharmaceutical industry bankrupting us with drug prices, the credit card industry bankrupting those in our society who are ill, and without health care, old, or trying as a single Mother to raise a family alone.

This administration doesn't care about Corporations sending our jobs overseas, putting people out of work, having our country overrun with illegal aliens, securing our borders, Hiring enough policemen to help protect us. Why the idiot cut down on the money to protect our borders!

He doesn't care about creating policy that would keep corporations from driving the rest of us into the ground by sending jobs out, avoiding taxes by maintaining corporate offices outside the US, firing folks who have worked for a lifetime and then just before they retire, no job, no pension, no healthcare, all these issues have been either neglected all together by your hero, or fueled by poor REPUBLICAN policy. Family falues my A##! The man should be impeached.

Oh, and by the way, instead of bringing up one democratic president as some sort of comparison for the idiocy being perpetrated by Little Bushy, take a good long look at what you folks have had in the White house over the years. Iran-contra, Watergate, secret arms deals, lies in front of the Senate and the UN, Now, go on and attack and say I am ranting and raving and I'll just sit here and wonder why republicans don't have enough sense to rant and rave!

This is the most arrogant, negligent, dangerous, anti-American, power hungry bunch of crooks to ever Steal the Whitehouse.

You right-wingers better get yourselves perched for a back lash which is well deserved. Your complacency is unfounded and your fantacy about Bush and his family values is enough to make the rest of us who can see behind his facade feel like barfing.

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

eg8r
03-11-2005, 12:32 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Oh, Okay, well then let me re-state the problem. None of the Presidents should dip into the Social Security fund.
<hr /></blockquote> I agree 100%.

[ QUOTE ]
AND, republicans should try to do what Clinton did, since you guys love to bring him up so much, and balance the budget. <hr /></blockquote> Clinton helped himself by dipping into SS. You get one or the other, allow them to dip in (like Clinton did to help balance his budget) or not, but you cannot have it both ways.

[ QUOTE ]
Keep us out of War.
<hr /></blockquote> Too vague, and you will only get buy-in from our enemies. I do agree with the idea, but sometimes it is a necessary evil.

[ QUOTE ]
Make sure our armed forces don't sneak prisoners off where they can be tortured.
<hr /></blockquote> Not sure what you mean, were there secret hiding places? I know that the torture mentioned in the news happened in prisons and they did not appear to be sneaking anything. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif As dumb as it is, they should get the Darwin award. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]
Avoid changing the Bankruptcy laws in a way that puts a burden on people who have suffered catestrophic illness and lost everything, or lost their jobs, and their health care from outsourcing, or are single mothers whose deadbeat husbands won't pay their child support, which amounts to a large number of the unfortunate folks who have to file for bankruptcy. Credit cards are one of the worst problems this country has. It is an industry which could use some investigatin for sure. <hr /></blockquote> 2 things here, the first is bankruptcy. How are the proposed changes hurting people. My limited understanding is that the changes would require the person to actually be bankrupt to apply. This is a great change and it does not hinder anyone.

Second point, credit cards. Why investigate the credit companies. They are not doing anything. There is nothing wrong with loaning money to people for a cost. By the way, this is a cost that is agreed to by the consumer when they sign on the dotted line. An investigation of the credit card companies is only removing responsibility from the consumer to control themselves. Look at it from the other side, what if banks were lending out so much money that they were going bankrupt. Would you call for an investigation on the consumers for wanting to borrow too much money, thus adding a burden on the banks to supply?

[ QUOTE ]
The tax "Reform" is UNFAIR to the middle class. 10% across the board does not allow for a simple principle of relativity, IOW, giving back $187,000.00 to a millionaire is a far cry from giving back $1,200.00 to a struggling family trying to just make ends meet, pay the bills and feed their kids.
<hr /></blockquote> Once again, cut out the entitlement crap. Would you propose the poorer of the two get the 187,000? They surely did not pay it in. The problem with your idea is that you are ignoring the participation of the two groups. The poorer group is only getting back what is rightfully theirs. They are not entitled to one penny more than they put in.

My argument is...If you were to give back 100% of all the money the poor family put in, thus remove their entire tax burden completely, they would still whine because someone else got more.

Be honest here, lets say you (for example sake, are the poor person) and some other lady (the rich person) both walk into a clothing store. The store is offering 25% off all items. Because you are not wealthy, you search the clearance racks. You find a nice dress for $20. The rich lady goes into the high priced designer section and finds a nice dress for $200. You both walk to a cashier and pay together. The cashier tells you that your savings is going to be $5. She then tells the other woman that her savings is going to be $50. Now tell me, will you start complaining that the sale is unfair and the store only cares about the rich? Would you begin grandstanding and marching in front of the store claiming they are giving $45 to the rich, while charging the poor $5?

You are right, the tax reform is unfair. The rich are paying too much.

[ QUOTE ]
This administration has turned us into a country who doesn't care about the Pharmaceutical industry bankrupting us with drug prices, the credit card industry bankrupting those in our society who are ill, and without health care, old, or trying as a single Mother to raise a family alone.
<hr /></blockquote> What kind of BS is this? If the beginning of that sentence made one bit of sense, then you would not be harping about it. It is quite obvious this is a country that DOES care, and that is why people like yourself speak out about it.

[ QUOTE ]
This administration doesn't care about Corporations sending our jobs overseas, putting people out of work, <hr /></blockquote> Yes, and people that make statements like this don't care about the companies that come here and set up shop and hire all of the Americans to work here. If you are so adamant against jobs going overseas, why are you NOT PRAISING ALL THE COMPANIES FROM OVERSEAS THAT SET UP SHOP HERE????? This is what I mean about the doom and gloom mindset. You only see the bad in everything that is going on. Nike did not decide to pull the mfg company out of the US during W's presidency, and there are millions of jobs that left before he got here. If you want any of your complaints to ever have merit or stand on any solid ground, at least be unbiased a little.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh, and by the way, instead of bringing up one democratic president as some sort of comparison for the idiocy being perpetrated by Little Bushy, <hr /></blockquote> Quite hypocritcal of yourself, don't you say? You equate the fall of Rome to W. One single Republican president. Do you best to act the part before you request others to join you.

[ QUOTE ]
This is the most arrogant, negligent, dangerous, anti-American, power hungry bunch of crooks to ever Steal the Whitehouse.
<hr /></blockquote> HYPOCRISY at its finest. Wow, a liberal calling someone anti-American. It does not get any funnier than that. This is one of the big arguments that libs have had, whining for years that the Reps call them anti-American. Then what do we get, a lib doing exactly the same thing. This is much like the Senator voting to make it illegal to to refuse a breathalyzer test, then instructing his teeny bopper wife to do just that.

[ QUOTE ]
You right-wingers better get yourselves perched for a back lash which is well deserved. <hr /></blockquote> Don't you think we are ready for just about anything? Surely the Democratic party which refers to itself as the "more intelligent party" should not be such a pitiful failure forever?

[ QUOTE ]
Your complacency is unfounded and your fantacy about Bush and his family values is enough to make the rest of us who can see behind his facade feel like barfing.
<hr /></blockquote> Who is complacent? So, let me get this straight, you complain about Bush being gung-ho and actually doing what he says, then when some time has passed and his efforts are looking very very positive, you call him complacent. With all your circular thought, how do you get anything done.

eg8r

hondo
03-11-2005, 01:09 PM
Ho hum. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZ

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Oh, Okay, well then let me re-state the problem. None of the Presidents should dip into the Social Security fund.
<hr /></blockquote> I agree 100%.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
AND, republicans should try to do what Clinton did, since you guys love to bring him up so much, and balance the budget. <hr /></blockquote> Clinton helped himself by dipping into SS. You get one or the other, allow them to dip in (like Clinton did to help balance his budget) or not, but you cannot have it both ways.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Keep us out of War.
<hr /></blockquote> Too vague, and you will only get buy-in from our enemies. I do agree with the idea, but sometimes it is a necessary evil.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Make sure our armed forces don't sneak prisoners off where they can be tortured.
<hr /></blockquote> Not sure what you mean, were there secret hiding places? I know that the torture mentioned in the news happened in prisons and they did not appear to be sneaking anything. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif As dumb as it is, they should get the Darwin award. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Avoid changing the Bankruptcy laws in a way that puts a burden on people who have suffered catestrophic illness and lost everything, or lost their jobs, and their health care from outsourcing, or are single mothers whose deadbeat husbands won't pay their child support, which amounts to a large number of the unfortunate folks who have to file for bankruptcy. Credit cards are one of the worst problems this country has. It is an industry which could use some investigatin for sure. <hr /></blockquote> 2 things here, the first is bankruptcy. How are the proposed changes hurting people. My limited understanding is that the changes would require the person to actually be bankrupt to apply. This is a great change and it does not hinder anyone.

Second point, credit cards. Why investigate the credit companies. They are not doing anything. There is nothing wrong with loaning money to people for a cost. By the way, this is a cost that is agreed to by the consumer when they sign on the dotted line. An investigation of the credit card companies is only removing responsibility from the consumer to control themselves. Look at it from the other side, what if banks were lending out so much money that they were going bankrupt. Would you call for an investigation on the consumers for wanting to borrow too much money, thus adding a burden on the banks to supply?

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
The tax "Reform" is UNFAIR to the middle class. 10% across the board does not allow for a simple principle of relativity, IOW, giving back $187,000.00 to a millionaire is a far cry from giving back $1,200.00 to a struggling family trying to just make ends meet, pay the bills and feed their kids.
<hr /></blockquote> Once again, cut out the entitlement crap. Would you propose the poorer of the two get the 187,000? They surely did not pay it in. The problem with your idea is that you are ignoring the participation of the two groups. The poorer group is only getting back what is rightfully theirs. They are not entitled to one penny more than they put in.

My argument is...If you were to give back 100% of all the money the poor family put in, thus remove their entire tax burden completely, they would still whine because someone else got more.

Be honest here, lets say you (for example sake, are the poor person) and some other lady (the rich person) both walk into a clothing store. The store is offering 25% off all items. Because you are not wealthy, you search the clearance racks. You find a nice dress for $20. The rich lady goes into the high priced designer section and finds a nice dress for $200. You both walk to a cashier and pay together. The cashier tells you that your savings is going to be $5. She then tells the other woman that her savings is going to be $50. Now tell me, will you start complaining that the sale is unfair and the store only cares about the rich? Would you begin grandstanding and marching in front of the store claiming they are giving $45 to the rich, while charging the poor $5?

You are right, the tax reform is unfair. The rich are paying too much.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
This administration has turned us into a country who doesn't care about the Pharmaceutical industry bankrupting us with drug prices, the credit card industry bankrupting those in our society who are ill, and without health care, old, or trying as a single Mother to raise a family alone.
<hr /></blockquote> What kind of BS is this? If the beginning of that sentence made one bit of sense, then you would not be harping about it. It is quite obvious this is a country that DOES care, and that is why people like yourself speak out about it.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
This administration doesn't care about Corporations sending our jobs overseas, putting people out of work, <hr /></blockquote> Yes, and people that make statements like this don't care about the companies that come here and set up shop and hire all of the Americans to work here. If you are so adamant against jobs going overseas, why are you NOT PRAISING ALL THE COMPANIES FROM OVERSEAS THAT SET UP SHOP HERE????? This is what I mean about the doom and gloom mindset. You only see the bad in everything that is going on. Nike did not decide to pull the mfg company out of the US during W's presidency, and there are millions of jobs that left before he got here. If you want any of your complaints to ever have merit or stand on any solid ground, at least be unbiased a little.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Oh, and by the way, instead of bringing up one democratic president as some sort of comparison for the idiocy being perpetrated by Little Bushy, <hr /></blockquote> Quite hypocritcal of yourself, don't you say? You equate the fall of Rome to W. One single Republican president. Do you best to act the part before you request others to join you.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
This is the most arrogant, negligent, dangerous, anti-American, power hungry bunch of crooks to ever Steal the Whitehouse.
<hr /></blockquote> HYPOCRISY at its finest. Wow, a liberal calling someone anti-American. It does not get any funnier than that. This is one of the big arguments that libs have had, whining for years that the Reps call them anti-American. Then what do we get, a lib doing exactly the same thing. This is much like the Senator voting to make it illegal to to refuse a breathalyzer test, then instructing his teeny bopper wife to do just that.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
You right-wingers better get yourselves perched for a back lash which is well deserved. <hr /></blockquote> Don't you think we are ready for just about anything? Surely the Democratic party which refers to itself as the "more intelligent party" should not be such a pitiful failure forever?

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Your complacency is unfounded and your fantacy about Bush and his family values is enough to make the rest of us who can see behind his facade feel like barfing.
<hr /></blockquote> Who is complacent? So, let me get this straight, you complain about Bush being gung-ho and actually doing what he says, then when some time has passed and his efforts are looking very very positive, you call him complacent. With all your circular thought, how do you get anything done.

eg8r
<hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
03-12-2005, 07:13 AM
Ed,

You're responses show me that you may not have thought about the results that will follow the policy changes that are in Bush's agenda.

The changes in SS for example will virtually wipe out the disability and survivor benefits, which amount to a sort of welfare for those who really need some help.

The credit card industry is behind the changes in the bankruptsy laws, which will have the most devastating effect on those who have been financially ruined by devastating health conditions, and lost everything to health costs endured in order to stay alive, and to those single mothers who are trying to raise their children alone, and hard working people who lose their jobs to downsizing, and general corporate greed.

Besides that, what can you say about a man who claims "Family values" to be his forte, and then shows that his policy favors credit corporations? Just what we need, more money in the hands of the credit companies? Our bankruptcty laws were meant to give those Americans who have had unfortunate circumstances befall them another chance, and allow them to maintain a roof over their heads. I guess that means nothing to you. Certainly it means nothing to Bush.

Veterans are now expected to pay for being wounded, housing cut out for the disabled, money cut for police protection, and environment regulations, protection for quack doctors from law suits, destroy the rail service as gas prices soar, fail to increase border patrol while we are being inundated with illegals, whose kids, BTW can get into a state college as in-state students, while the children of veterans from other states are expected to pay as out-of-state students.

The work of government should be to direct policy in a way which somewhat equalizes inequities of capitalism, not increase them. This, BTW, benefits all of society. Do you want to live in a country where the sick, the orphans, the disabled and unfortunate are living in the streets? Apparently, your president does, and is fine with the prospect as long as corporations and the rich can continue to rob the poor, and exploit American workers. Unchecked Corporate greed and political power is not a good thing. Without some protection from our law makers, we will be doomed by it.

Clinton's proposal, BTW, was not for private accounts, it was about the SS trusties investing in an indexed basket of stocks, and the republicans all voted against it.

Is America still # 1 really isn't the question IMHO, the question is, how can we save it from Bush. I never thought I would live to see the day when our own president, attorney general, and secretary of defense would be on the side of trying to shimey around the rules of war so that prisoners could be tortured.
That's not MY America.

Gayle in Md.

eg8r
03-14-2005, 09:40 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Besides that, what can you say about a man who claims "Family values" to be his forte, and then shows that his policy favors credit corporations?<hr /></blockquote> The two are completely independent of the other. If you would like to ask preposterous questions, why not give some beef to the reason behind the question. Making simple statements like, "which will have the most devastating effect on those who have been financially ruined by devastating health conditions" means nothing. There is no reasoning behind statements like these.

[ QUOTE ]
protection for quack doctors from law suits, <hr /></blockquote> Should doctors not be protected from quack patients?

[ QUOTE ]
destroy the rail service as gas prices soar, <hr /></blockquote> It is Bush's fault that the gas prices are rising ?

[ QUOTE ]
The work of government should be to direct policy in a way which somewhat equalizes inequities of capitalism, not increase them. <hr /></blockquote> To be quite honest, I don't think you would be able to make of this sentence to someone who did not know what you are talking about. The reason, it makes no sense. I really don't think you know what the supposed inequities are, let alone sit back and give them time to work themselves out.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you want to live in a country where the sick, the orphans, the disabled and unfortunate are living in the streets? Apparently, your president does, and is fine with the prospect as long as corporations and the rich can continue to rob the poor, and exploit American workers. <hr /></blockquote> This is absolutely not what your President wants, but your biased view has led you to believe only the negative with zero effort put forth to try and learn what positives could arise. You read all your books about what people think the future will be, and with each book that you have regurgitated, they all keep saying it will be bad. What happens if they were wrong? They don't offer any other solutions, and if you did not already know, hindsight is 20/20, so why do you place such high credibility to such one-sided thought?

[ QUOTE ]
Unchecked Corporate greed and political power is not a good thing. Without some protection from our law makers, we will be doomed by it.
<hr /></blockquote> The problem is that you don't for one second believe in the word "some". Your posts wreak of this. You want the government to have full control. Everytime there is a law that lessens the government control you freak out and say the world is going to end. Policies to help the coporations continue or grow HELP the people. Policies which raise minimum wage do not help.

eg8r

eg8r
03-14-2005, 09:41 AM
What's up duh?

eg8r

hondo
03-14-2005, 10:03 AM
Yawn. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Z
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ ZZZZZZZZZZ


<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> What's up duh?

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Rich R.
03-15-2005, 04:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>Also, those who have worked hard all their lives, paid into Social Security, as an insurance for their retirement years, shouldn't be deprived of the promise to reap the benefits of that just because we have been invaded by illegal aliens who are on the take.
<hr /></blockquote>
In order to receive Social Security benefits, you have to prove your citizenship and/or legal residency. Also, benefits are based on your past work and paying into the system.
Illegal aliens, "who are on the take", should not affect the Social Security system.

I don't know if it is the same for other entitlement programs and I can not comment on those.

Rich R.
03-15-2005, 04:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> BTW your boys Clinton and Reid were making noise about the exact same thing back in the 90's. <hr /></blockquote>
IMHO, it was a bad idea under Clinton, it's a bad idea under Bush and it will still be a bad idea under the next president, regardless of party affiliation.
It removes some of the protection that SS was meant to provide.

Gayle in MD
03-15-2005, 08:51 AM
Oh, lol. So I guess you don't think there is any impact on SS when you have
an influx of illegal aliens working under the table in this country and not paying into the SS fund? I suppose you also don't think that they utilize any of our welfare illegally?

They just rounded up a bunch of them in Silver Spring Md. yesterday, members of one of the worst crime rings/gangs in the country. My Aunt owned a Bowling lanes business near there for years, which she had to sell due to the changes in the area, crime,.... illegals standing right on her corner every morning waiting for construction day jobs. They would congregate out front and wait for people on their way into Washington D. C. to pick them up for a days work, under the table ofcourse, and drop them back off in the evenings, and then they stood around for hours waiting for whichever one in the group had an old junk car to pick them up. I won't bother with the rest of the story, rape and robery statistics, through the roof.

Gayle in Md.

Rich R.
03-15-2005, 09:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Oh, lol. So I guess you don't think there is any impact on SS when you have
an influx of illegal aliens working under the table in this country and not paying into the SS fund? I suppose you also don't think that they utilize any of our welfare illegally? <hr /></blockquote>
If you check, my only comment was about getting money from SS. That was the point I addressed.
Of course, anyone working, without paying taxes, is hurting SS, as well as a lot of other programs supported by tax money.
I also stated that I didn't know the rules of other entitlement programs.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> illegals standing right on her corner every morning waiting for construction day jobs. They would congregate out front and wait for people on their way into Washington D. C. to pick them up for a days work, under the table ofcourse, and drop them back off in the evenings, and then they stood around for hours waiting for whichever one in the group had an old junk car to pick them up. <hr /></blockquote>
You are making a few assumptions here, that are not necessarily true.

First of all, it is almost impossible to tell, from looking, whether these people were illegal aliens or not. Many construction companies have street corner pick-up sites for what are called "casual laborers". They pick these men up in the morning. The men put in a very hard days work and they are returned in the evening. Although some of these men may be illegal aliens, a lot of them are natural born citizens.

Also, the work is not necessarily "under the table", although it could be.
A certain number of these men will work every day for the same construction company and are on the regular payroll. They just happen to need transportation to the job, which the company provides.

Another possibility is, the company just hires them by the day and pays them, with all of the proper tax deductions.

Yet another possibility is, the company treats the day workers as private contractors. This is perfectly legal and the person is responsible for paying their own taxes, as a self employed individual. Now, if the person doesn't pay their self employment taxes, they are definitely in violation of the law.

Of course, it is always possible that one or more of these men are an illegal alien, but that can't be assumed.

Not everyone works a 9 to 5 and English is not everyone's first language, even if they are naturally born citizens.

Gayle in MD
03-15-2005, 12:10 PM
If you'll check, you'll see that I didn't say that they "got money from SS"....

Also, since the group I mentioned were arrested in a sting, and taken away in police vans, and according to sources in the neighborhood, (My cousin, who is a policeman) were then deported, I think I can "assume" that they were illegal aliens....

Gayle in Md.

"Because he's hiding..." - Bush, explaining why Osama bin Laden has yet to be captured. (Washington Post interview, Jan 16 2005

Rich R.
03-15-2005, 12:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> If you'll check, you'll see that I didn't say that they "got money from SS".... <hr /></blockquote>
You are correct. That is the point I made.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>Also, since the group I mentioned were arrested in a sting, and taken away in police vans, and according to sources in the neighborhood, were deported, I think I can assume that they were illegal aliens....
<hr /></blockquote>
I find it very hard to believe that the individuals waiting on the corner, to get a daily construction job, were the same individuals arrested for drug dealing, etc. Considering the money made from drug sales, they surely wouldn't have wanted to work as a laborer on a construction site.
Of course, I could be wrong. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Gayle in MD
03-15-2005, 12:39 PM
I was told, (By my cousin) they were arrested because they were here illegally, and because business owners in the area had complained, which had lead to a sting. There are, however, many many more (Illegal aliens) to take their place. Atleast that group, several of whom had also been involved in several robberies of 7/11's in the area, is gone. I think you must have assumed drugs were the reason, I never mentioned drugs.

Gayle

"With the campaign over, Americans are expecting a bipartisan effort and results. I'll reach out to everyone who shares our goals." - In Bush's first press conference after the election on Nov. 4, 2004.

SecaucusFats
03-15-2005, 11:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I was told, (By my cousin) they were arrested because they were here illegally, and because business owners in the area had complained, which had lead to a sting. There are, however, many many more (Illegal aliens) to take their place. Atleast that group, several of whom had also been involved in several robberies of 7/11's in the area, is gone. I think you must have assumed drugs were the reason, I never mentioned drugs.

Gayle

Here is a useful link.

http://www.ice.gov/graphics/news/newsreleases/articles/illegals031105.htm

I just want to say, that I thought you were better than that Gayle. Apparently I was mistaken. You are a racist and a bigot, you can try to justify it anyway you want but it is what it is. How does it feel to be Archie Bunker?

Gayle in MD
03-16-2005, 03:18 AM
I don't get it? Your link shows that in the DC area IC deported 1,391 Illegal aliens last year, of which 819 were criminals, and this proves to you that I am a racist? I think those statistics prove my point. This week they deported 37, 28 of which were criminals who had commited crimes of rape robery theft and assult,and you don't think crime is a problem with illegal immigrants?


The sting operation I spoke of in my last responses in this thread occured several years ago. The first one I spoke of happened recently.

I guess you think that we should throw open our borders and have no checks in place to deal with illegal aliens? Or is it that you think that people who break the law, and sneak across our borders are all law abiding citizens when they get here? My opinion is that after 911, and intelligence which indicates that alQaeda has future plans to come across the Mexican border, this is no time to be handing out amnesty.

Illegal aliens are a crime problem here in the Washington area. I stand by my original statement.

Think what you like, I can tell you this, I would never write a response to anyone like the one you have here.

Gayle

Rich R.
03-16-2005, 04:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I think you must have assumed drugs were the reason, I never mentioned drugs.<hr /></blockquote>
One of the reports I heard in the local media mentioned drug involvement. If that report was not accurate, I am sorry.

nhp
03-16-2005, 11:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
Whatever do you mean eg8r? Don't you know George Bush was the first President to raid the SS fund? Clinton and Gore had it in a locked box, under Tipper's bed.

This was all in Paul O'Neill's book. Don't you read books? <hr /></blockquote>


LOL you just reminded me of one of the funniest SNL's ever!!!!

"Two words, lock-box...."

SecaucusFats
03-16-2005, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I don't get it? Your link shows that in the DC area IC deported 1,391 Illegal aliens last year, of which 819 were criminals, and this proves to you that I am a racist? I think those statistics prove my point. This week they deported 37, 28 of which were criminals who had commited crimes of rape robery theft and assult,and you don't think crime is a problem with illegal immigrants?

<font color="red">Let me refresh your memory. This is from a previous post of mine:
I'm not sold on the proposed "Guest Worker" program or granting blanket amnesty to illegals.

A lot of people say that the illegals are only taking jobs that Americans won't do. I say: tell that to the union construction worker who used to make $20 an hour with benefits and can't find work because the contractors are now using illegal aliens working for $10 or $12 an hour without benefits. The same is happening to lots of other people in other industries.

Mexico also grants dual citizenship to Mexicans who obtain US citizenship. I say strip anyone of their US citizenship if they also claim citizenship elsewhere. To add insult to injury, Mexico is pushing for SS benefits for Mexicans who retire and return to Mexico. Hell we are going to have problems paying our own retirees, never mind Mexicans. If we give in to Mexico, the Salvadorans, the Hondurans, the Guatemalans, everybody and their uncle will demand the same. If left unchecked illegal immigration will destroy the middle class.

As I've stated in the past, I have no problem with folks who enter the country legally, but as to illegals ..enough is enough. I say end bilingual education, end the misguided multiculturalist policies. For the good of our nation, put American citizens first.

SF

Does that sound like someone who wants rampant illegal immigration to go unchecked?

I have no tolerance for criminals of any stripe. But when you paint an entire ethnic group as low-lifes and criminals, I'm sorry that is where I draw the line.

The vast majority of illegal aliens are not criminals they are desperately poor people who come to the US to work in order to support their families. Having said that, it does not excuse the fact that they are here in violation of our immigration laws. So fine, if they are caught they should be repatriated in a humane manner, and not treated as common criminals or thugs, (unless of course they are thugs), in which case they should be immediately deported after serving their jail sentences.

There are plenty of scumbags in this country, and they come in all shades of skin tone, religious beliefs or lack thereof, and ethnicities.

When I arrived in Manhattan as a little boy, my family moved into a blue collar Irish neighborhood. My sister and I were subjected to all types of slurs (spics, freaking greasy spic bastards), beatings and ridicule. We were shunned by all the other kids who in turn were encouraged by their parents. I could have grown up hating all Irish people, but I didn't.

Eventually we moved to another neighborhood in Yonkers, NY. The new neighborhood had it's share of Irish, Polish, Italian, Jewish, German, and yes, Hispanics. There I learned that what I had experienced in Manhattan was an aberration, a pathological fear and hatred of the "other" that permeated an insular and ignorant group.

Today my oldest and dearest friends are Polish-American, Irish-American, and Puerto Rican. My wife is Irish-American; and yes she's a redhead just like Lucy.

Let me ask you this. If you were robbed by an (insert ethnic group here) would you blame all members of that group? Are all Italians gangsters? Are all Irishmen drunks and wife beaters? Are all Polish people stupid and ignorant? Are all African-Americans lazy, shiftless, ignorant thugs? Are all Jews penny pinching, heartless, money grubbers conspiring against all non-Jews? Of course not! But when you make irresponsible blanket statements targeting an ethnically, racially, and culturally, diverse group whose one common element is a language, you are in fact being bigoted and irresponsible. I'm sorry if that hurts, can you not comprehend that? </font color>

Think what you like, I can tell you this, I would never write a response to anyone like the one you have here.

<font color="red">You have never been denied housing because of your ethnicity, you have never been beaten to a pulp for being what you are. Until you have walked down that path you will never, ever,understand. </font color>

<font color="red"> Hispanics BTW, are a core constituency of the Democrats, but they are starting to question their allegiance to a party which takes them for granted. If only 5% of Hispanic democrats switch allegiances, the Democrats will be gnashing their teeth and wailing for years and years to come.
</font color>
<hr /></blockquote>

Wally_in_Cincy
03-16-2005, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr>
LOL you just reminded me of one of the funniest SNL's
ever!!!!

<font color="blue">Yes. Yes it was. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

"Two words, lock-box...." <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD
03-16-2005, 01:59 PM
SF,
Do you really think anyone who is Italian could grow up in this country and never hear a racial slur?

If I pushed a button, believe me when I say I am sorry. I am trying to say one thing and one thing only, and that is that in Washington D C, illegal aliens are a crime problem, and particularly in the Silver Spring area where my Aunt and Uncle owned a nice family bowling lane.

I have three cousins who are policemen in Montgomery County, and I know a little bit about what goes on in that county regarding illegals.

I am way too old, and hopefully intelligent enough to realize that discrimination is wrong. I don't support it in any fashion. I would think that my posts, overall, would convey that I am against discrimination whether it is against gay people, women, or any ethnic group, but that does not erase that fact that there are areas around the country, usually urban areas, which attract the worst of the worst when it comes to illegal aliens, and others.

I have a few other things I will share with you personally at a later time when I have more time, but for now, I assure you, calling me a racist and a bigot is way off the mark. I am always on the side of the commom working man and family, and totally against discrimination for any reason.

Gayle in Md.

Again, I am sorry if I did not make myself clear.

DebraLiStarr
03-16-2005, 02:19 PM
http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/parodies/signs_of_the_times.jpg

SecaucusFats
03-16-2005, 03:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> SF,
Do you really think anyone who is Italian could grow up in this country and never hear a racial slur?

If I pushed a button, believe me when I say I am sorry. I am trying to say one thing and one thing only, and that is that in Washington D C, illegal aliens are a crime problem, and particularly in the Silver Spring area where my Aunt and Uncle owned a nice family bowling lane.

I have three cousins who are policemen in Montgomery County, and I know a little bit about what goes on in that county regarding illegals.

I am way too old, and hopefully intelligent enough to realize that discrimination is wrong. I don't support it in any fashion. I would think that my posts, overall, would convey that I am against discrimination whether it is against gay people, women, or any ethnic group, but that does not erase that fact that there are areas around the country, usually urban areas, which attract the worst of the worst when it comes to illegal aliens, and others.

I have a few other things I will share with you personally at a later time when I have more time, but for now, I assure you, calling me a racist and a bigot is way off the mark. I am always on the side of the commom working man and family, and totally against discrimination for any reason.

Gayle in Md.

Again, I am sorry if I did not make myself clear. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Apology accepted. I in turn apologize for the racist / bigot comment. Perhaps I did over-react, but it's just that it's an emotional issue for me. </font color>

Gayle in MD
03-17-2005, 06:32 AM
Apology accepted here also. I think people who have come over here and made a decent start for themselves should be allowed to stay, as long as they have been law abiding during their time here. But, I do think that this situation of illegal entry should be stopped, and that cutting the funds for our border patrols, and making it easier for those who come here illegally to get drivers permits, is a very bad step, since we know that the terrorists could never have pulled off 911 witbhout their false documentation.

Anyway friend, reading your posts show me that we think much more alike than differently.

I wish you well...

Gayle

theinel
03-26-2005, 06:21 AM
This is one of the ugliest threads I've seen here and with that said I don't want to be a part of it but the general theme that the upcoming generations are lacking in something or think that they are entitled is accurate and as a previous poster (one the first page; I gave up after that) mentioned I think we would solve a lot of our countries biggest problems by making everyone spend two years in the military. They would have no choice but to learn some discipline whether they liked it or not and they would learn why you need to vote. They would also learn that race, religion, wealth, and everything else that divides us is overcome by the things that unite us... education, tolerance, and democracy. I'm not saying the military would do this automatically beacuse it isnt all roses but if you can get through boot camp with people you might learn something important.

Stretch
03-26-2005, 09:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote theinel:</font><hr> This is one of the ugliest threads I've seen here and with that said I don't want to be a part of it but the general theme that the upcoming generations are lacking in something or think that they are entitled is accurate and as a previous poster (one the first page; I gave up after that) mentioned I think we would solve a lot of our countries biggest problems by making everyone spend two years in the military. They would have no choice but to learn some discipline whether they liked it or not and they would learn why you need to vote. They would also learn that race, religion, wealth, and everything else that divides us is overcome by the things that unite us... education, tolerance, and democracy. I'm not saying the military would do this automatically beacuse it isnt all roses but if you can get through boot camp with people you might learn something important. <hr /></blockquote>

That was me about the manditory Service /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif I Stayed out of this debate because i am not an American Citizen. However 2 years for your country (doesn't matter which) is not an unreasonable proposition. Just think of the benefits to be able to mobilize a trained civilian force of this size. Not only in times of War, but for homeland security, natural disasters and local projects, peace keeping, you name it. Everyone would learn to work together regardless of race, religion, or economic station. When your two years are up you can do your own thang, the better for it. St.

Troy
03-26-2005, 10:12 AM
One of the biggest contributors, IMHO, is the lack of ethics in our youth. For example, nearly everyone in the +/- 25 year old range expects a paycheck but does NOT feel the need to actually work for that pay.
Every day I hear "That's not my job", or "I'm NOT going to do that because I'm off in 10 minutes and it will take 15 minutes for me to do it"... And the list goes on...
I think these kids have been spoiled... Sad, but true.

Troy