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SplinterHands
03-11-2005, 02:51 PM
I play in local nine ball tournaments on a regular basis. There are some local pros who I've always had trouble competing with. The fact that they play well and a combination of "playing the name and not the game" has led to many losses for me. Recently, I've been beating them about fifty percent of the time. Last night I knocked off a well known pro and had to play another one the next round. Before we flipped the coin he asked if I wanted to put $20 on the match. I have played this guy many times and he's never asked to play for money. Do you think he was trying to throw my game off my doing this? Later that night I was thinking this was some kind of ploy because maybe he felt threatened. Well, his tactic worked and I lost the match. Not saying I would've won if there was no money involved, but I did feel a little tighter while shooting. I wish I would've refused the offer, but didn't want to be a coward. Anybody ever experience something like this? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman2
03-11-2005, 03:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SplinterHands:</font><hr> I play in local nine ball tournaments on a regular basis. There are some local pros who I've always had trouble competing with. The fact that they play well and a combination of "playing the name and not the game" has led to many losses for me. Recently, I've been beating them about fifty percent of the time. Last night I knocked off a well known pro and had to play another one the next round. Before we flipped the coin he asked if I wanted to put $20 on the match. I have played this guy many times and he's never asked to play for money. Do you think he was trying to throw my game off my doing this? <font color="blue"> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Maybe he was trying to make $20...</font color> Later that night I was thinking this was some kind of ploy because maybe he felt threatened. Well, his tactic worked and I lost the match. <font color="blue">It must have worked. </font color> Not saying I would've won if there was no money involved, but I did feel a little tighter while shooting. I wish I would've refused the offer, but didn't want to be a coward. Anybody ever experience something like this? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <font color="blue"> No more than a hundred or so times. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

mike_in_iowa
03-11-2005, 09:07 PM
local pros? What does that mean? That they don't have jobs? Just because they don't have jobs doesn't make them a pro. Now the reason the player asked you to bet 20 was he thought maybe you would say yes. I don't ask players to gamble unless I thought they played good enough to bet. You look like a complete ass asking a non-player/non-gambler or a player that you outclass to bet something. Consider it a compliment that you were worth the effort to ask. Now the real question is- how good are these local pros? And why wouldn't you bet 20 bucks if you can "play" at a pro level? What was the race to? What is you apa rating? Do you have a glove? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike in Iowa

Sid_Vicious
03-12-2005, 05:43 AM
Many of the local hot shots around here growl "Well, you wanna gamble with me and see what you can do!!!" when they lose to a lesser player, especially in 9-ball where luck plays a role. They also jack the bet at any chance trying to get your stress level up as well. I'd say you might have a valid point, and he was just wanting to steal some of your money with this reaction. I guess I am different, but I don't see these guys as "offering me something good" when money gets brought up during a non gambling venue.

Same question though...just what in your mind ranked these guys as pros? OOPS, I see you answered this now. sid

SplinterHands
03-12-2005, 05:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mike_in_iowa:</font><hr> local pros? What does that mean? That they don't have jobs? Just because they don't have jobs doesn't make them a pro. Do you have a glove? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Mike in Iowa <hr /></blockquote>

I'm talking about Howard Vickery and Tony Mougey. Not sure if they have jobs or not, but they certainly play at the pro level. Anybody out in Iowa ever heard of these guys? And no, I don't have a glove. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

jjinfla
03-12-2005, 06:34 AM
Howard Vickery?

He just wanted to make an easy $20.00.

Scared of you? I seriously doubt it since the pros don't scare him. In fact didn't he just win the Senior's tournament?

And that beard of his - each hair represents a tournment he won.

Jake

SplinterHands
03-12-2005, 09:27 AM
I guess what I'm saying is that when these guys know you aren't scared to play them anymore, they add something like a small wager to throw you off. It makes beating you easier, I guess. I've read that one of the biggest aggravations of people who try to make a living playing pool is that the local banger (me) is no longer afraid of them. True? Maybe scared is the wrong word. Aggravated is better. Like a little dog nipping at their leg. How about that?

recoveryjones
03-12-2005, 09:48 AM
Only he knows his true intentions and everything else is just speculation on your part and on our parts.Some people just like to gamble as it makes the game more interesting to them.

Next time someone asks you to put $20 on a tournament match and you think they are doing it to shark you......tell them, let's make it $40 and shark them right back...... then watch their game go for a $hit....Only joking. RJ

Popcorn
03-12-2005, 09:49 AM
I think he just wanted to win $20.00. I doubt he was looking for any added edge. You say it was Howard Vickery in your other post and from what you divulge regarding your speed in the thread you started "Coughing the Last 3" He can most likely beat you very easily anyway. I have seen him playing in ring games with local-yokles at tournaments who couldn't make a ball, so he has no problem with taking money from weaker players. I wouldn't read too much into it, he wanted your $20.00.

SplinterHands
03-12-2005, 10:01 AM
It was Mougey who wanted to gamble. Either way, it's probably the same. By the way, I think I did cough the last 3 at least once. Maybe next time.

mike_in_iowa
03-12-2005, 01:15 PM
I love it- somebody who bites back. Yeah I think somebody in bumfu** Iowa has heard of those guys. Matter of fact Howard beat me at the DCC 3 years ago so you must play better than me. But I still dont think those guys are scared of you.

Mike

DickLeonard
03-12-2005, 03:55 PM
Splinterhands I think 20 is a cheap pool leason but if your going to play you might use the experience to develop your money game. You know the feeling that takes over your body now you have to learn how to control your emotions. Slow your body movements, control your breathing, play the shot in your mind and where you want the cueball to land, then execute the shot. Control the table instead of turning the table over to your opponent, if you must give up the table control the leave, so your opponent never gains control.

Once you start to develop this part of the game opponents will be hesitant to play you for money. I don't know anyone who became a great money player who didn't crawl before they walked.####

Popcorn
03-12-2005, 04:24 PM
I have another comment regarding playing good players. Good players enjoy a certain status they sometimes don't like challenged. Thats why they often won't play for nothing. To them, they actually are playing for something, their reputations. You play a guy for fun and have him beat you, he will have no problem bragging about it. If he loses it doesn't matter since he was not expected to win anyway. You have everything to lose and nothing to win. This may seem childish but it is however true. Small local tournaments really give the weaker players who would never play you, a shot at you cheap. I remember Big Bob playing a guy in a tournament and losing. The guy was insufferable after the win. Bob got tired of hearing it and walked over and asked him he would like to play some for real now, he could have the 6-ball. The guy got real quiet. You don't mind losing but you also don't like to have to hear about it for an hour, especially from a guy who would not bet five cents even if you gave him the nuts. Just some other thoughts on the matter as to why some players may react as they do.

jjinfla
03-12-2005, 04:57 PM
Popcorn,

So true - I have heard that quite often. Makes sense to me.

Jake

SplinterHands
03-12-2005, 05:01 PM
Popcorn, I'm glad you see where I'm coming from. I never make a big deal out of beating anyone at this level because I know over the long run I'll get hammered.

Dick Leonard, Thanks for the advice. I definitely let my emotions take over in a very cheap set.

tateuts
03-12-2005, 05:09 PM
The context of how it was said will tell you your answer. If it was loud in front of people, he was trying to humiliate you or call you out for some reason. If it was proposed in a serious way, he wanted some side action.

However, does your local tournament allow gambling? This could be considered unsportmanlike conduct - possibly even grounds for DQ or foreit the match out here. If I thought someone was trying to shark me this way I would warn them LOUDLY that you are here to play in a tournament, not to gamble, and that you consider this unsportmanlike conduct.

If you scream it at them and step forward at the same time, they might get a little sharked themselves.

Chris

MrLucky
03-12-2005, 08:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Splinterhands I think 20 is a cheap pool leason but if your going to play you might use the experience to develop your money game. You know the feeling that takes over your body now you have to learn how to control your emotions. Slow your body movements, control your breathing, play the shot in your mind and where you want the cueball to land, then execute the shot. Control the table instead of turning the table over to your opponent, if you must give up the table control the leave, so your opponent never gains control.

Once you start to develop this part of the game opponents will be hesitant to play you for money. I don't know anyone who became a great money player who didn't crawl before they walked.#### <hr /></blockquote> <font color="red">Excellent advice! You certainly can't learn much from those that know less than you!!! as far as the local "pros" are we talkin' as in pool or were you on 42nd street? </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

tateuts
03-12-2005, 09:50 PM
Splinterhands,

Real curious. Did Gary Abood and Howard Vickery match up much? If so, how did they play and what happened?

Chris

JDB
03-13-2005, 12:28 AM
I don't gamble much and have never had a "pro" ask me to gamble, but I do find it funny to be asked in a tournament situation. Although I usually say no because I don't gamble much, when I do win those matches it is that much sweeter.

kirk7665
03-13-2005, 12:58 AM
Guarantee you Tony just wanted something to sweat. Tony and I try to make sweat bets with each other all the time. We usually don't because we're both wanting to bet the same way.LOL IIRC, I think every time we've played league against each other we've sweated a twenty every time. Tournaments / league are boring and the twenty just gives a little motivation.

Kirk- former GM at Cornfed's

BTW, who are you?

SplinterHands
03-13-2005, 07:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tateuts:</font><hr> Splinterhands,

Did Gary Abood and Howard Vickery match up much? If so, how did they play and what happened?
Chris
<hr /></blockquote>

I've never heard of them matching up. He's back in town now so I'll ask him. Personally, I think Abood would bust him.

bankrollD
03-14-2005, 08:13 PM
Last time I played Vickery in a race I beat him hill-hill. This was a pretty good upset because Vick was the #1 horse in tourney. I've known Tony for years. If he was the one who asked you he was probably needing another Bud.

Chris Cass
03-14-2005, 10:11 PM
LOL,

Hi Mike, I seen Howard at the U.S.Open 2003. He played on the table next to me. Can't remember what he was playing with as far as a cue goes. I also don't think he was scared competeing in that event either. LOL He's probably traveling more than he's staying in one spot now days. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif


Regards,

C.C.~~doesn't think SplinterHead really was serious about that at all.

Ralph S.
03-16-2005, 03:29 PM
Iowa? I thought Howard Vickery was out of the Colombus, Ohio area. Atleast that is what I have been told by some of the Colombus shortstops that having been coming to our weekly Sunday nineball tourney as of late.

Ralph S.
03-16-2005, 03:39 PM
Hi tateuts! I thought Gary's last name was spelled Abu? Anyhow, if we are thinking of the same person from Colombus, the guy shoots a helluva game.

SplinterHands
03-16-2005, 05:59 PM
Hey Ralph,
Gary had been going to some tournament in Indiana where he said the break and run contest was at $11,000. I think some local guys bought a huge amount of tickets and won it. Ever hear of it? I think it was Saturday night, though.

Ralph S.
03-16-2005, 09:25 PM
That is my weekly tourny and yes the break and run pot was that big. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif