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littleCajun
03-15-2005, 09:31 AM
I just found this new Cue Joint. Just wanted to know if anyone has hit with one of these yet. What is your thoughts about it.

http://layanicues.com/en/conicaljoint.htm

ChuckR
03-15-2005, 09:40 AM
Interesting concept. I also would be curious as to what report of the hit the player feels back in his hand. It will be interesting to see the coments of someone that has hit with this.

MrLucky
03-15-2005, 09:48 AM
Call me OLD School but just give me the old tried and true properly executed Wood to wood joint and be done with it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rich R.
03-15-2005, 10:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> I just found this new Cue Joint. Just wanted to know if anyone has hit with one of these yet. What is your thoughts about it.

http://layanicues.com/en/conicaljoint.htm <hr /></blockquote>
This is not really a "new cue joint".
Layani cues has been using this joint for a number of years now and they make excellent cues.
BTW, Thierry Layani was a regular poster on the CCB for a while and I wouldn't be surprised if he is lurking. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Rich R.
03-15-2005, 10:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr> Call me OLD School but just give me the old tried and true properly executed Wood to wood joint and be done with it! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
MrLucky, don't knock it, if you haven't tried it.
I can't explain the physics of the joint, but it transfers the energy of the hit very efficiently.
You may also want to look at the "Ultra Joint" used by Mike Lambros.
Although these two joints look very different, I believe the physics involved are very similar. However, you will have to find someone a lot smarter than me to explain it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

MrLucky
03-15-2005, 10:25 AM
Sorry did not mean to sound like a knock! I as you stated could not do that since I haven't used one, but isn't a true Wood to Wood considered a true "solid" hit? I thought the idea was to emulate the physical characteristics of a one piece well made wood cue with a two piece joint! Please correct me if I am wrong here! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SpiderMan
03-15-2005, 11:54 AM
How much do the components of this joint weigh?

I also wonder about the contact area. It would be interesting to use layout dye and see if it really touches everywhere simultaneously.

SpiderMan

Rich R.
03-15-2005, 11:56 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr> Sorry did not mean to sound like a knock!
<hr /></blockquote>
I really didn't take it as a "knock". I was just using the old cliche. Sorry.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr>I as you stated could not do that since I haven't used one, but isn't a true Wood to Wood considered a true "solid" hit? I thought the idea was to emulate the physical characteristics of a one piece well made wood cue with a two piece joint! Please correct me if I am wrong here! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>
I think that the wood to wood joint is theoretically a true solid hit. However, once you cut the wood, a lot of stuff comes into play, when putting it back together and trying to make it feel solid again. I think all the different joints being used, by all the different cue makers, are just variations and personal preferences, on how to make the wood feel solid again. None are perfect, but then, who wants to carry around a 5' long cue case, with a one piece cue. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

If you ever get the chance, I highly recommend trying either the Layanni conical joint or the Lambros "Ultra Joint".

LARRY_BOY
03-15-2005, 12:33 PM
I wonder if the amount of surface area, from a scientific point of view, would be a big advantage? A person could, in theary, use a larger diameter cue if he wanted "more" surface area. Just food for thought....

SecaucusFats
03-15-2005, 12:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ChuckR:</font><hr> Interesting concept. I also would be curious as to what report of the hit the player feels back in his hand. It will be interesting to see the coments of someone that has hit with this. <hr /></blockquote>

I shot a rack with Thierry Layani's own personal cue at an ASP-RSB event in CT.

The Layani conical joint produces a very nice hit indeed. I plan on getting a Layani to add to my collection as soon as I can convince my wife that eight cues are not enough. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

MosconiJr
03-16-2005, 05:57 AM
It seems like I remember seeing a cue made by Mike Lambros which had a similar "conical" type joint in the mid 90's. Not quite so pronounced, but a conical type of build to it. Just wondering if anyone else had seen this type of Lambros cue.

MosconiJr

Thierry Layani
03-16-2005, 07:37 AM
The weight of our joint is the same as a standard stainless steel joint, so there's no extra weight in the front. Of course compared to a phenolic or wood joint you might feel the balance is more forward, but then again I've seen the opposite also.
Of course we've made the test many times to make sure of the purcentage of correspondance between the cones. In theory a good fit between two cones is somewhere around 50% (from a machinist point of view). Right now we are getting over 75%. Considering the surface of contact for our joint is nearly 5 times the surface of a standard joint that is very good. Of course to achieve this with a standard joint, you'd have to make the joint as large as the buttcap so that would be a bit absurd. What is fascinating with this type of joint is that the actual working diameter is .750" (where the 2 cone meet right below the gap). So the real diameter of this joint is .750". No cuemaker would think of making a joint at this diameter because the cue would be very weak at the joint. But the conical configuration compensates for the small diameter and feels actually very strong (there is very little vibration at the joint when you tap it on the side with your hand).
To make the correspondance test we have used the blue marker like most machinist use but we also had a company specialized in machined tolerances verify the cones with a laser type of technology. This is how we know that the fit is around 75%.
The problem with making this joint is that it is time consuming to a point where it's nearly as long making a shaft than building a butt, so if there wouldn't be any difference in terms of feel and play I'd leave that aside right away, trust me.

Thierry Layani
www.layanicues.com (http://www.layanicues.com)

Thierry Layani
03-16-2005, 07:39 AM
Hi Rich, indeed you can see through me. Will I see you in Valley Forge. I'm leaving today and I'll be playing in the Amateur open like last year. Take care.

Thierry

Rich R.
03-16-2005, 07:41 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MosconiJr:</font><hr> It seems like I remember seeing a cue made by Mike Lambros which had a similar "conical" type joint in the mid 90's. Not quite so pronounced, but a conical type of build to it. Just wondering if anyone else had seen this type of Lambros cue. <hr /></blockquote>
That is the Lambros "Ultra Joint".
See my other posts in this thread.

KGeeED
03-16-2005, 07:52 AM
According to physics there are only 3 points that can make contact at any one time. Think of a tripod. The puzzle becomes what planes do you want these contact points to be in? I think this is also brought up in Lambros' website.

I own a Layani. It is a very well make cue, and has a nice solid hit. Would recommend buying one. Does the joint make me play better? Not really! Still missing shots that I should make. So I can honestly say that it is not the magical cue that will make you a winner but can improve you game by giving you a consistant hit.

MosconiJr
03-16-2005, 11:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr>
That is the Lambros "Ultra Joint".
See my other posts in this thread. <hr /></blockquote>
Sorry Rich,

Yep, I had a buddy who played with one of the Lambros cues. He is an excellent player, and liked the hit of the cue very much. I hit balls with the cue, but could tell no noticeable difference than other joints, but at the time I was using a steel joint cue.

MosconiJr

SpiderMan
03-16-2005, 12:15 PM
Thierry,

Have you tried using stainless for the "cup" and a more deformable material for the "cone"?

SpiderMan