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View Full Version : Outer limits of draw ?



Snyder1
03-21-2005, 11:03 AM
I came across a shot recently - a ball was close to a corner pocket & I needed to draw the full length of the table for shape (cue ball located about a foot off the opposite rear rail). I practiced this shot until I broke a sweat - could not for the life of me draw the table full length due to the cue ball being almost 9 ft from the object ball). I tried full follow through draw & snap draw & neither could get it done. Just curious if this is a realistic shot for those with better technique, or is it asking too much from a physics standpoint (NOTE: The object ball was dead straight - no way to use follow & couldn't cheat the pocket) .. thx.

John

MrLucky
03-21-2005, 11:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> (NOTE: The object ball was dead straight - no way to use follow &amp; couldn't cheat the pocket) .. thx.

John <hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif outside high English to come back off the rail? The friction alone of the cloth makes a 9' or really rail to rail draw IMO impossible to pull off but a tip right or left high follow should have allowed the cue to divert enough to miss the pocket and come back off the rail! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <font color="brown">perhaps illustrating it on the RSB Table might make this easier to answer! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott Lee
03-21-2005, 11:17 AM
Snyder1...There could be many reasons why you're unable to shoot this shot. Start with, IT'S A DIFFICULT SHOT, you ninny (j/k)! LOL Top players have to concentrate to do table length draw shots with consistency...and that is under premium playing conditions. If the cloth is dirty and/or the balls are dirty, that can make it much more difficult to do any kind of extreme draw, regardless of the quality of your stroke. Humidity plays havoc with directional spin, and draw will wear off that much quicker! However, with all that taken into account, I'm going to go out on a limb, and ask you to take a closer look at your pre-shot routine, your grip, and completing the stroke. Those are the three most likely culprits in denying you this shot! Shooting it until you are frustrated doesn't help either! Concentrate on using the weight of the cue and timing, to deliver the speed of the swing!

Scott Lee

Bob_Jewett
03-21-2005, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> I came across a shot recently - a ball was close to a corner pocket &amp; I needed to draw the full length of the table for shape (cue ball located about a foot off the opposite rear rail). I practiced this shot until I broke a sweat - could not for the life of me draw the table full length due to the cue ball being almost 9 ft from the object ball).... <hr /></blockquote>
I've seen Mike Massey draw the ball over two table lengths on a similar shot.

Wax the cue ball. I'm serious. Your cloth may be seriously sticky, and the wax will temporarily fix that part of the problem. A good hard paste wax or a silicone spray (like ArmorAll) will work. If that works, start lobbying for new cloth on the table.

The next thing is that you have to start within your range of confidence and competence. Move the cue ball to only two diamonds away from the object ball and still draw back to the far end rail. If you make that shot, move it another half diamond away. If you miss a shot, make the next shot easier.

For other draw drills (and other drills), see the free "Basics" handout on http://www.sfbilliards.com

JohnnyP
03-21-2005, 11:43 AM
DannyK put new cloth on two of the tables in his place. It's so slippery, I was able to make that shot on my first try. It makes you look like a pro. Impossible for me to do it on the tables with worn 860.

I asked if the new cloth was 860, and he said no, they are trying a new product, but he didn't mention the brand. It looks like it might be that Brunswick Scotchguard stuff.

Wally_in_Cincy
03-21-2005, 11:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JohnnyP:</font><hr> DannyK put new cloth on two of the tables in his place. It's so slippery, I was able to make that shot on my first try. It makes you look like a pro. Impossible for me to do it on the tables with worn 860.

I asked if the new cloth was 860, and he said no, they are trying a new product, but he didn't mention the brand. It looks like it might be that Brunswick Scotchguard stuff. <hr /></blockquote>

I think it's called Brunswick Centennial cloth (teflon-impregnated so maybe there is a reason it is slick /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif )

Stretch
03-21-2005, 11:59 AM
All great answers! Bob that really works cleaning and waxing the cue ball. It makes a HUGE difference. As far as game conditions go i know that snooker players routinely ask that the cue ball is cleaned. I never see this in billiards (unless there's a big hair growing out of it or something) but hey ya, make sure your cue ball is buffed up for a shot like that and you'll make your job a lot easier. Second, as far as technique goes i cue low with a good firm looped bridge, but at a downward angle. The idea is to snap the cue ball that hard that it's actualy airborn or very slightly skimming the cloth on route. This saves the back spin. That and a perfect nose hit (helps to use a fine aiming point like where the ob sits on the cloth).

Great point about building up to this shot with that progressive drill. Fact is, this shot is too tuff for most poeple to try in a game unless you already have a great draw stroke. There are much better options here. Haveing said that it's a beuty to see though. St.

Billy_Bob
03-21-2005, 01:48 PM
In the past 15 minutes, I have improved my draw stroke 100%!

My secret... I read Bob Jewett's post above and tried it. It works! I cleaned my cue ball and sprayed silicone on it. I can draw quite a bit further now.

I've noticed I seem to be able to draw further when there is new cloth on a table. And some old pitted cue balls are difficult to draw. I guess it is an equipment thing so far as these exceptionally long draw shots go. Those pros have new cloth and clean balls. (They don't do that for my small local tournaments) /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Keith Talent
03-22-2005, 02:32 PM
Keep at it, with a smooth and long acceleration through the ball, stay down, and it'll come ... I'm a pretty average player and can make that shot, though it's no cinch for me. If I haven't hit a couple of long draw shots already that day, I'm likely to jab at it and knock one or both of the balls right off the table! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Snyder1
03-23-2005, 05:42 AM
Thanks all ... I practiced the shot again &amp; can draw about 3/4 table length to the cue on the rail &amp; all the way back. Very tough to get nice shape though - takes so much force to bring the ball back from that far away...

Jonh

dave
03-23-2005, 08:34 AM
Another thing that is infered by Scott's post, and the title of the thread, is developing your ability to push the outer boundaries of where your tip hits the cueball. In this case, how far toward the bottom edge of the cueball can you hit with consistency? This is a function of the quality of your stroke. The more controled and consistent your stroke, the further out toward the edges you can go without the risk of miscue. This can be done with either a very low tip placement and the stick parallel to the table or, as Stretch says, a higher tip placement with an elevated butt. You can't bring wax or silicone to the tournament so I'd spend my time working on the shot and perfecting my stroke mechanics and tip placement. One other piece of advice, stroking too hard can cause the cueball to be sliding so much that the english does not have an opportunity to take effect resulting in something more like a stun shot. Back off the speed a little and work on getting further out/down toward the edge of the ball.

Scott Lee
03-23-2005, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> Very tough to get nice shape though - takes so much force to bring the ball back from that far away...

Jonh <hr /></blockquote>

John...Very true. This shot has to be stroked with break speed to accomplish with any accuracy. That alone, makes the shot 10x more difficult. Be sure you're not gripping the cue too tightly!

Scott Lee

Rackin_Zack
03-24-2005, 11:25 AM
It's definitely possible. With the ball in the pocket it makes it difficult to draw the ball straight back but I can execute the shot about 10-15% of the time. To give you an idea of my draw ability: With the ball cue ball on the spot and the object ball two diamonds from the pocket I can typically draw the ball back to the rail and out to the center of the table plus or minus a diamond on full draw shots. Of course, with newer cloth it goes farther.