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Stretch
03-28-2005, 06:49 AM
This was just a small Sat. night 15 dollar entry 9 ball tourney. These guys usualy just flip for the break. But in a race to 5 A-side, and race to 3 B-side, the break is pretty darn big. So here i am in the finals of the A-side, i walk up to the table and this guy already has his hand covering the coin on the table and "orders" me to call it. Right away i didn't like his additude so i say "i wanna lag". He rolls his eyes and say's "just call it". I say no way this is nine ball, if i have to lag, you gotta lag. So this dude is absolutely NOT going to lag and we get into it over the stupid situation. FINALY after i give up on reasoning and am about to poll the entrents for anybody else who knows the rule (TD was just a bar manager and not a pool player) he concedes and we lag. I win the lag and the match 5-0. He didn't shake hands after (didn't expect it given our opening tiff) but was delighted to see him go down 3-0 in the B-side finals. Guess i ruined his night. I thought he was going to foam at the mouth when me and the guy that just beat him started our final. Again i was asked to call heads or tails. So with buddy watching i chearfully called tails and won LOL. Buddy stormed out of the Hall at this point. I don't know why i piss people off.....It's a talent i guess /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So what's your take on this. Do you go for the flip or the lag when asked to choose? St.

Keith Talent
03-28-2005, 06:56 AM
I was once asked to lag and said, sure, what the hell? Won the lag, lost the match.

I think the rule here in local tourneys is that if there's a disagreement over that, you've got to flip for the choice. So, after great thought while nodding off on the N train one morning on the way to a tourney, I decided that means you might as well flip for it, considering that if you win, you break, but if yer flippin just to see who gets to lag ... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif .... then again, you could lose the first flip and win the second ... any smart person want to calculate these odds?

Rich R.
03-28-2005, 07:11 AM
Although, most of the time I play, we just flip the coin, when someone wants to lag, I have no problem with it. In fact, I make a point of saying, "It doesn't matter to me", so the other player knows he is not getting into my head by insisting on the lag.

In reality, it doesn't really matter to me, because I probably stand a better chance of winning the lag than the flip. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SplinterHands
03-28-2005, 07:22 AM
Nothing like zapping a punk 5-0 after you have a spat. I'm not sure why being asked to lag would fluster someone. I'd rather rely on skill versus luck. For some reason, it seems like I only win 30% of coin flips. Go figure.

Barbara
03-28-2005, 07:25 AM
Stretch,

Flipping a coin is a chance situation. Lagging is talent. I always go for the lag.

Barbara

DickLeonard
03-28-2005, 07:46 AM
Stttrrrreeeettttcccchhhhh. Never but never flip a coin on the table, if it lands straight up it can cut the cloth.#####

Scott Lee
03-28-2005, 08:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Stretch,

Flipping a coin is a chance situation. Lagging is talent. I always go for the lag.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

EXACTLY, Barbara!...a coin flip is 50/50 at best! You can win a lag 85-90% of the time...IF you practice it. The lag also respresents a very soft stroke, pocketing an OB so that it just rolls off the end of the slate...an invaluable skill in some situations, and a necessary skill for all players.

Scott Lee

BigRigTom
03-28-2005, 08:38 AM
You are not the only one that gets other's going, I also have a nack for it.
I would definitely lag given the choice, I probably win a little more than 50% percent of the lags while I get a little better every time I do it. The coin toss will always be a 50-50 at best and there is no way of ever improving those odds short of down right cheating.
Some people stage an outburst like that to get in your head, some people just like to argue, some want to take control of the match that way, some people are just idiots. Regardless which type you ran into there you did the right thing by insisting on the lag. Good Job! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

MrLucky
03-28-2005, 08:55 AM
tournaments I would think the rule would be decided by the person running it! In APA the LAG takes precedence in a dispute ! only if both agree to flip that will rule! I learned this esoteric LOL! rule in a city play off after I contested my opponents desire to "only" lag for break! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

landshark77
03-28-2005, 09:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> Again i was asked to call heads or tails. So with buddy watching i chearfully called tails and won LOL. Buddy stormed out of the Hall at this point. I don't know why i piss people off.....It's a talent i guess /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

<hr /></blockquote>

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I knew I liked you. Believe it or not I share your same talent, lol.

As far as the lag/ flip..it doesn't matter to me...what ever the other wants. I do argee with Barabara, but my lag skills suck so I have a better chance with the flip. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Popcorn
03-28-2005, 10:03 AM
Quote
"These guys usualy just flip for the break."

If they had been flipping for the other matches you should have flipped the coin. Why would you expect him to change what has been the norm just for you?

nAz
03-28-2005, 10:46 AM
I only lag at 3C billiards, like pool you need a really smooth long stroke.
BTW i think you did the right thing making him lag out. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Stretch
03-28-2005, 10:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Quote
"These guys usualy just flip for the break."

If they had been flipping for the other matches you should have flipped the coin. Why would you expect him to change what has been the norm just for you? <hr /></blockquote>

I was lagging all night with success, he new that. Plus he plays in enough Ranking (by the book) tournaments to know the score anyway regardless of what the other regulars do there. Call it a kneejerk reaction to a direct challenge the way he greeted me. I guess you'd of had to be there. Good question though. St.

Fasteddy7
03-28-2005, 11:29 AM
shoot Scott, the way you teach it, its more than 85-90%. I'd say 95-98% if you know the table.......

Bob_Jewett
03-28-2005, 11:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> This was just a small Sat. night 15 dollar entry 9 ball tourney. ... <hr /></blockquote>
If there are no rules, I guess it's according to who is more convicing. But what if he brings the rules authorities, Smith and Wesson, next time? The written rules are specific about lagging at nine ball.

cheesemouse
03-28-2005, 12:14 PM
Stretch ,

You mentioned your innate ability to piss people off; this is'nt nessessarily a bad thing, is it? LOL I mean if you can get under a guys skin before the match starts you just won the first little battle and that's got to be a postitive, I would think...

In regards to the flip/lag...in my area I would say it is a flip over 90% of the time. Now this may get the goodie two shoes upset but what the hell....I have done this before just to check and see if my opponent is paying attention or not: You lose the flip but you just walk to the break end and look at the guy like he should be racking. Just act natural and see what happens...you'd be amazed at how many times they just shrug their shoulders and then rack the balls...LOL Yes, I know that is a nasty, deceptive thing to do, but hey, it just part of a game right....PAY ATTENTION.....

Now if the guy busts you doing this just play dumb and ask him if he wants you to break...after all, he won the flip and he gets his choice doesn't he.....In my defence I only do this with proven jerks....I could careless if my opponent likes me or not....

/ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Plummerbutt
03-28-2005, 09:59 PM
Around here its all flip for the break. There is alittle trick to it. If your opponent is doing the flip, and you see the quarter before he flips it, chances are that coin will land on the same side that was facing up before the flip. I had a magician tell me this many years ago and I use it. When I do the flip, I'll hold the edges of the coin in one my left hand and hold it over my right thumb. If the quarter is showing its face and my opponent calls heads, I'll tip the coin when I make the movement to flip it (try and flip with the same spin all the time). The quarter will land on its shown side about 75% of the time. I do this all the time and end up breaking about 75% of my games. Only works with quarters. I do prefer to lag, but like I said, around here its all flip.

Troy
03-28-2005, 10:20 PM
It doesn't matter to me.
However, please only use a penny... Dimes have sharp edges, nickels (and anything larger) are heavy. There's a good chance of damaging the cloth if it's correctly tight.

Troy

theinel
03-29-2005, 03:37 AM
This is a good thread.

I think that in tournaments if time is not an issue a lag should always be used but if time is an issue quick coin tosses are the better option. In personal matches it should be up to the players agreement with a lag taking place if one of the players doesn't like the toss.

On the cloth damage issue I have to say that I have seen thousands and thousands of coin tosses in my day, with everything from pennies to Eisenhower dollars, but I have never seen the cloth damaged by it. I know it's kind of sad but coin tossing is a popular late night habit at some of the places I hang out and I have often seen groups of five or six highly excited guys aggressively flipping one, two or three quarters for hours at a time with more damage to the flippers than the equipment.

GeraldG
03-29-2005, 05:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Plummerbutt:</font><hr> Around here its all flip for the break. There is alittle trick to it. If your opponent is doing the flip, and you see the quarter before he flips it, chances are that coin will land on the same side that was facing up before the flip. I had a magician tell me this many years ago and I use it. When I do the flip, I'll hold the edges of the coin in one my left hand and hold it over my right thumb. If the quarter is showing its face and my opponent calls heads, I'll tip the coin when I make the movement to flip it (try and flip with the same spin all the time). The quarter will land on its shown side about 75% of the time. I do this all the time and end up breaking about 75% of my games. Only works with quarters. I do prefer to lag, but like I said, around here its all flip. <hr /></blockquote>

Speaking of this, I know a guy who has two quarters...one will ALWAYS land on tails, the other will always land on heads. The guy is like a magician..he can palm these two quarters so that you only know he has one in his hand. He will get you to call before he flips the coin and he can switch to whichever one he needs and you'll never know it. They are beveled on the edge to make them fall whichever way they need to, but it's hard to tell unless you look real close at them. I think he only uses them as sort of a novelty thing...but I don't know that for sure. He is a very talented road player...most of the time all he needs is to get the opening break.

I always insist on lagging.

ras314
03-29-2005, 09:35 AM
Troy, as you and #### said the coin can damage the cloth. In my younger days I've been in pool halls where that would get you run out of the place. Nowadays nobody seems to care much if the cloth is messed up anyway.

Barbarella
03-29-2005, 10:26 AM
Lag, Lag, Lag! As Barbara says, lagging is a talent, a pool stroke, a part of the game.

Who came up with flipping over a pool game anyway? I never understood that.

Pool competition is all about a player's abilities, talent and where they stand in their pool community. The lag is a part of the game.

I always ask for the lag even though my lag is only at about 60%. It's a stroke I have put on my training schedule because it does take practice. My goal is to accomplish a smooth soft stroke that hits the near short rail and stops over 80% of the time! Back to the drawing board!

Stretch
03-29-2005, 10:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> Troy, as you and #### said the coin can damage the cloth. In my younger days I've been in pool halls where that would get you run out of the place. Nowadays nobody seems to care much if the cloth is messed up anyway. <hr /></blockquote>

I here you there. There's a place in Town that just set up 8 lovely 4x8's, new cloth rails everything. It was HEAVEN! That was last year. But the tournaments, leagues and the drunks and everything in between has already taken it's tole. Last time there i was hitting dead rails, watching balls fall off line a half a diamond, dings and dents everywhere with well defined break streaks and those were "good" tables haha. You have to do a lot of adapting from one place to the next. One thing i know is my game goes hayyyyyyyyy up on great playing tables. Dirty balls and slow cloth is too much like work lol St.

Stretch
03-29-2005, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Plummerbutt:</font><hr> Around here its all flip for the break. There is alittle trick to it. If your opponent is doing the flip, and you see the quarter before he flips it, chances are that coin will land on the same side that was facing up before the flip. I had a magician tell me this many years ago and I use it. When I do the flip, I'll hold the edges of the coin in one my left hand and hold it over my right thumb. If the quarter is showing its face and my opponent calls heads, I'll tip the coin when I make the movement to flip it (try and flip with the same spin all the time). The quarter will land on its shown side about 75% of the time. I do this all the time and end up breaking about 75% of my games. Only works with quarters. I do prefer to lag, but like I said, around here its all flip. <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Plummer, well you sold me lol I'm going to start working on the flip, why not eh? St.

Eric.
03-29-2005, 12:52 PM
I'm bored, OK?


Eric

One
03-29-2005, 04:24 PM
If a guy wants to flip the coin, it would mean he sucks at pool and you would win easily. No need to make him upset, just accept the coin toss.