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SpiderMan
03-29-2005, 09:04 AM
I know this was discussed briefly last year, and someone said the factory "inside scoop" was that there is no difference, but I swear the old stuff works better for me!

Last night I did a side-by-side comparison of "old" (non-flag) and "new" (flag) blue master chalk. I'd use one, then clean my tip with a napkin and use the other. I probably re-chalked 10 times, each time examining the results with an eye loupe.

The non-flag stuff seemed to coat the tip easier and more evenly. By comparison, the flag chalk seemed to leave "thin coverage" spots on the tip. No matter how much I tried to get an even coat, I often reached a point where the "flag chalk" was falling off and making new bald spots before I got the tip covered.

For reference, I never pik my tip, only slighly re-shape maybe once every two weeks. So this is a test of chalk's ability to coat a fairly hard and slick surface. If the tip were pikked and scuffed to a rough texture, there might be no discernable difference in the chalks.

Not sure about performance, as there are a lot of variables when you try to repeat shooting experiments. Certainly my confidence was improved when I thought the chalk coated my tip better.

SpiderMan

Wally_in_Cincy
03-29-2005, 09:24 AM
Did you find the pre-flag chalk to be of a lighter color?

ras314
03-29-2005, 09:25 AM
I have the impression that the NTC blue chalk coats a slick hard tip more evenly than the "flag" Masters blue.

Unfortunately I have a gross of the new Masters. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

SpiderMan
03-29-2005, 09:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> Did you find the pre-flag chalk to be of a lighter color? <hr /></blockquote>

No, my "regular" appeared a little darker (on the tip) than my "flag". Maybe this is because it was coating better.

SpiderMan

Deeman2
03-29-2005, 09:37 AM
Spiderman,

I found a difference as well. After I bake and cover with a Deeman wrapper, it seeems to coat just fine.

Deeman

SpiderMan
03-29-2005, 09:48 AM
So, do you think the older chalk was processed differently, perhaps baked or dehydrated in another manner?

I actually felt that the newer chalk was more dry, but I'm not sure why I had that impression. It's just that the old stuff seemed to "paint" on, and the new stuff seemed more powdery. I would have thought that would be exacerbated by further drying in an oven, but maybe I'll have to try it myself.

SpiderMan

Deeman2
03-29-2005, 10:03 AM
Not sure, but I had the same situation as you and the flag chalk seemed to miss spots on the tip while baked coated more evenly. I I might add that the flag chalk seemed to work well in Thailand where the humidity was through the roof. Maybe it's all in my head but that's where i play most of my pool anyway....

Deeman
not Patrick or even One....

Wally_in_Cincy
03-29-2005, 10:25 AM
This may be destined to be a mystery that will never be solved.

Many folks have said there is a difference. It seems that way to me too, although the difference is very slight IMO. But Scott Lee says he talked to Skip Nemecek who owns Tweeten and Skip said there is no difference. So what do you do?

You can't really get the old stuff so I have learned to accept the new stuff. I just keep my tip a bit fuzzy and it works fine.

Deeman2
03-29-2005, 11:01 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> This may be destined to be a mystery that will never be solved. <font color="blue">Those are always the best kind... </font color>

Many folks have said there is a difference. It seems that way to me too, although the difference is very slight IMO. But Scott Lee says he talked to Skip Nemecek who owns Tweeten and Skip said there is no difference. <font color="blue"> Skip would say that. Maybe there is a conspriacy... </font color> So what do you do? <font color="blue"> Shake and bake... </font color>

You can't really get the old stuff so I have learned to accept the new stuff. I just keep my tip a bit fuzzy and it works fine. <font color="blue"> They make an ointment for that.. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

cheesemouse
03-29-2005, 11:28 AM
I think you are all wacked out of your skulls...... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman2
03-29-2005, 11:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cheesemouse:</font><hr> I think you are all wacked out of your skulls...... /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> We are.....</font color>

recoveryjones
03-29-2005, 01:22 PM
I started a thread on Master chalk last year when I had heard through the grape vine that the old was better than the new.Some people totally swore by the old stuff.

Being the bloodhound that I am, I went on a search for answers as to why.Apparently the make up of the master chalk (old and new)is totally identicle in ingrediants except for one thing.

The old chalk used a lead based coloring dye,while the newer chalk uses an unleaded coloring dye.The lead was apparently banned because of underlying health reasons.

The questions is:

Was that ingrediant of leaded dye of any help in making the old master chalk better? Some swear it does, whilst others say that the notion of that is total insanity.

As for me I'd still like to aquire a piece of the old masters and see for myself.If the color and covering helps a player physically or pyschologily, it's worth the experiment.
I've learned that if you want to find out something, the best way is to test the results for your self because when it comes to this game, it's "different strokes for different folks." RJ

GeraldG
03-29-2005, 01:31 PM
I have about 2 dozen cubes of the "pre-flag" blue Masters Chalk left. Bids? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

MrLucky
03-29-2005, 02:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote recoveryjones:</font><hr>
The old chalk used a lead based coloring dye,while the newer chalk uses an unleaded coloring dye.The lead was apparently banned because of underlying health reasons.

<hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif <font color="red"> I thought so!!!!! Damn! now I got to go get my lungs tested !</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Scott Lee
03-30-2005, 08:18 AM
Wally...Yep, I did talk to Skip, and he did tell me there is no difference. He also said this...Tweenten only produced a few runs of the 'flag' embossed chalk. There is no "new Master" and "old" Master (unless it is VERY old chalk from 20 yrs ago). It's all the same, whether there is a flag on it or not.

Scott Lee

Deeman2
03-30-2005, 08:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Wally...Yep, I did talk to Skip, and he did tell me there is no difference. He also said this...Tweenten only produced a few runs of the 'flag' embossed chalk. There is no "new Master" and "old" Master (unless it is VERY old chalk from 20 yrs ago). It's all the same, whether there is a flag on it or not.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Scott,

Not that it makes any difference (unless you are a bliever) but my old masters is about 27 years old. I have a half dozen from then. It's just me, but I like them better. </font color>

Deeman

SpiderMan
03-30-2005, 08:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Wally...Yep, I did talk to Skip, and he did tell me there is no difference. He also said this...Tweenten only produced a few runs of the 'flag' embossed chalk. There is no "new Master" and "old" Master (unless it is VERY old chalk from 20 yrs ago). It's all the same, whether there is a flag on it or not.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Scott,

Not that it makes any difference (unless you are a bliever) but my old masters is about 27 years old. I have a half dozen from then. It's just me, but I like them better. </font color>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>
Dee,

Mine is not so old, maybe 5-10 years or so, and I think I see/feel a difference also. Probably the flag has nothing to do with it, but I still feel there is a dividing line between old/new. I was assuming that the change in packaging coincided with the change in characteristics, but perhaps that was a bad guess.

Of course, from a marketing point of view, it benefits Tweeten to insist there has never been a change. Especially if they are forced to make a change such as switching away from lead-based dye, as pointed out by another respondent.

Scott, could Skip have been saying that the "flag" new is no different than the "non-flag" new, while conveniently sidestepping the "old" vs "new" issues? What did he say regarding the lead-based dye? Was there a change, or are they still using lead?

SpiderMan

MrLucky
03-30-2005, 09:36 AM
Good Questions! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Rich R.
03-30-2005, 09:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote GeraldG:</font><hr> I have about 2 dozen cubes of the "pre-flag" blue Masters Chalk left. Bids? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif <hr /></blockquote>
You may be able to get a bid from Johnny Archer.
I read somewhere, that he prefers the old chalk and always carries his own to tournaments.

Scott Lee
03-31-2005, 02:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Scott, could Skip have been saying that the "flag" new is no different than the "non-flag" new, while conveniently sidestepping the "old" vs "new" issues? What did he say regarding the lead-based dye? Was there a change, or are they still using lead?

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Spiderman...I never asked him about chalk from 20+ yrs ago. All I asked was whether the flag chalk was something special. He said no, he just wanted to do something patriotic after 9/11. So he printed the flag on a few runs of chalk. He said it was not permanent, and would eventually run it's course. He was adament about the formula for the chalk remaining unchanged, including binding ingredients.

Scott

Fred Agnir
03-31-2005, 05:57 AM
I interviewed Skip last year and I touched briefly on the chalk. It's the same chalk recipe. Any slight change in recipe gets a new name. Therefore, Tweetens has different chalk brands.

The "old" vs. "new" stems from the switch in color dye that affected the entire manufacturing industry. To the best of my recollection, that was red. Maybe another also, but I don't believe it affected blue. But that's only what I recall.

Basically, I addressed just about every half-baked rumor out there, and all but the color dye change were false.

Fred

onepocketchump
03-31-2005, 06:53 AM
And here is the INSIDE scoop. The Flag Chalk was produced for my customers who wanted to be sure to be getting GENUINE Tweeten chalk. The Flag was added to the design to differentiate it from the counterfeit chalk being sold in Asia. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the chalk based on the design of the covering. There may or may not be a difference in the formulation from batch to batch. Knowing Tweeten, I doubt that there is any difference in the way the chalk is made now than when it was first introduced. Also, Triangle chalk is EXACTLY the same as Masters. Triangle is a brand created for the British market.

John

Scott Lee
03-31-2005, 01:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote onepocketchump:</font><hr> And here is the INSIDE scoop. The Flag Chalk was produced for my customers who wanted to be sure to be getting GENUINE Tweeten chalk. The Flag was added to the design to differentiate it from the counterfeit chalk being sold in Asia.

John <hr /></blockquote>

John...From what you said, it would appear that ALL Master chalk is now being manufactured with the flag on the packaging. Is that correct, and if so, how do you know that, since that is different than what Skip told me.

Scott Lee

ChuckR
04-01-2005, 06:02 AM
I think you have hit on something very important. Perhaps its not a difference in manufacturing techniques but the aging process. Maybe just like wine, chalk needs to cure and age. We may be on the edge of a new marketing breakthru. Vintage chalk. Let's see. I would like a piece of Masters say 1979 please. Less filling, tastes great. Perhaps we could have a "born on date" printed on the side. We'll sell no chalk before its time. ChuckR

SpiderMan
04-01-2005, 08:20 AM
OK, it seems as if we almost have a consensus that the "flag" packaging is uncorrellated to any supposed composition change.

What about the lead vs no-lead issue? Since there seems to be agreement that billiard chalk once contained lead, and that it now probably does not, when did this change occur? And could this change be noticeable in play characteristics? And if Tweeten says there is absolutely no change, does this mean that their chalk still has the original lead content?

SpiderMan

PQQLK9
04-01-2005, 08:34 AM
Hey Spidey, what kind of Chalk do you think looks like Drugs? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif


Conviction in Dallas fake drug case

01 April, 2005 by mandeep

A jury Thursday convicted a former Dallas police officer on a charge of fabricating evidence in one of dozens of fake drug cases four years ago.

Mark Delapaz was accused of misusing a crooked confidential informant in one of the cases that sent dozens of innocent Mexican-Americans to jail. The informants admitted that they used crushed billiard chalk to set up the victims.

Jurors deliberated less than an hour before finding Delapaz guilty in the case, the Dallas Morning News reported. The punishment phase of the trial begins Friday. He could face up to 10 years in prison.

Paul Coggins, the ex-officer's attorney, said he was disappointed in the verdict, and he still believes Delapaz was innocent of the charges.

In closing arguments, special prosecutor Dan Hagood described Delapaz as a reckless officer who knew he was working with crooked informants, lied to supervisors and disobeyed orders.

Fred Agnir
04-01-2005, 09:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote onepocketchump:</font><hr> And here is the INSIDE scoop. The Flag Chalk was produced for my customers who wanted to be sure to be getting GENUINE Tweeten chalk. The Flag was added to the design to differentiate it from the counterfeit chalk being sold in Asia. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the chalk based on the design of the covering. There may or may not be a difference in the formulation from batch to batch. Knowing Tweeten, I doubt that there is any difference in the way the chalk is made now than when it was first introduced. Also, Triangle chalk is EXACTLY the same as Masters. Triangle is a brand created for the British market.

John <hr /></blockquote>I think your memory is fading, my friend. I just got off the phone with Skip (owner of Tweeten) to confirm my notes. Here are the words from him:

Triangle vs. Masters

These are different chalks and have always been different. Triangle has been around for over 40 years, as Skip's grandfather owned the company (Keikeffer?) before they merged with Tweeten Fibre. The biggest difference between Masters and Triangle is in their binder. Without a binder, the chalk fall apart like the sand it is. The Triangle chalk can be described as "harder" than Masters. It seems to be more popular in the snooker world.

Lead

There is no lead in any of the chalk. There used to be when the pigments available at the time had them. The most lead was in the yellow pigment. But no chalk today has lead nor can you get the lead-based pigment.

The change came over 15 years ago. I don't want to go into more detail, but the amount of lead-based pigment in blue Masters was so minute, I think it would be fair to say that it had less than .05%. You probably get more lead in you by walking outdoors on a humid day. Bottom line, the change in pigment still had to meet their quality standard on the final product.

Flag

The flag was Skips idea for 911. It was not intended to deter the counterfeiting. Counterfeiting is going to happen no matter what. But, if his product gets counterfeited, the U.S. Flag has to be put on it. And that's not a bad consequence, considering that he put the flag on it for the sole purpose of being patriotic.



Fred

onepocketchump
04-01-2005, 09:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote onepocketchump:</font><hr> And here is the INSIDE scoop. The Flag Chalk was produced for my customers who wanted to be sure to be getting GENUINE Tweeten chalk. The Flag was added to the design to differentiate it from the counterfeit chalk being sold in Asia.

John <hr /></blockquote>

John...From what you said, it would appear that ALL Master chalk is now being manufactured with the flag on the packaging. Is that correct, and if so, how do you know that, since that is different than what Skip told me.

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>


All I can tell you is what happened in response to my customer's concerns about making sure that the chalk was genuine Tweeten. I cannot vouch for what Skip told you. Since I purchased nearly two million pieces of chalk I can only surmise that our request for the packaging to be changed to reflect that the chalk really was Tweeten's was honored for us rather than a 911 tribute. As for the packaging running out, I would only guess that it's because we are no longer requesting it. Whatever the "official" reason for the flag design the original question of whether it is different chalk or not from the pre-flag design stuff has been answered.

John

Wally_in_Cincy
04-01-2005, 10:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>

...I just got off the phone with Skip (owner of Tweeten) to confirm my notes. Here are the words from him:<hr /></blockquote>

OK, mystery solved. Thanks.

Now, what is the significance of "TK-6" ?

TIA

SpiderMan
04-01-2005, 10:49 AM
I heard that this was crushed from a cone of hand chalk, to look like "nose candy".

SpiderMan

Fred Agnir
04-01-2005, 12:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
OK, mystery solved. Thanks.

Now, what is the significance of "TK-6" ?

TIA <hr /></blockquote>

What is "TK-6"?

It's the offical document name for the revision of the screen play.

It's stands for "Tom Cruise 6," meaning his sixth real movie.

It's the common abbreviation for "take six," as in the sixth take.

It's the top 6 surfing sites in the world, The Killer Six.

It's the thymidine kinase heterozygote cell line..

TK is the name of the company Eddie Felson owns. That caddy is #6.

It was a premonition of Tommy Kennedy's winning of the US Open.

It was the original model number for the Balabushka Cue.

It marks the ever gaining popularity and strenghth of the Government of Tokelau.

It's a clue for those that seek the Holy Grail.


HTH,

Fred

Voodoo Daddy
04-01-2005, 12:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>It's a clue for those that seek the Holy Grail.
HTH,

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

What is the wingspan of a sparrow?

Eric.
04-01-2005, 01:36 PM
You "Lunatics from New England" are too wild.


Eric &gt;just teasing /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Deeman2
04-01-2005, 01:50 PM
Nice ones, Fred. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman

Barbara
04-01-2005, 03:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>It's a clue for those that seek the Holy Grail.
HTH,

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">
What is the wingspan of a sparrow? <hr /></blockquote>

Bridgekeeper: What is your name?

Arthur: It is Arthur, King of the Britons.

Bridgekeeper: What is your quest?

Arthur: To seek the Holy Grail.

Bridgekeeper: What is the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

Arthur: What do you mean? An African or a European swallow?

Bridgekeeper: Er...! I don't know that ... aaaagh!

Bridgekeeper is cast into the gorge</font color>

Barbara /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

onepocketchump
04-01-2005, 04:16 PM
Must be - it's not important enough for me to dig up the emails with the specific questions and answers relating to this thread.

There you go folks - Fred's the man. I was wrong.

Do you need to see the invoices for the two containers full of chalk as well?

John

BlindPlayer
04-01-2005, 06:33 PM
Barbara,

Walla! That is my favorite all time scene...and....I've seen a lot of movies since 1962.

BlindPlayer