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View Full Version : Clarity of BCA rules (or lack thereof)...



Billy_Bob
03-30-2005, 12:34 PM
I frequently notice that players have trouble understanding the BCA rules.

You can hear them say... "Well it says this here, but it says that there, so I'm not sure." Then someone else will find another section which mentions the problem/foul/whatever and say. "Here is another rule for it."

Recently I read the Texas Express rules for 9-ball and noticed that they were very well written. Everything was clearly spelled out and understandable.

If anyone is connected with BCA, might want to look at the way the Texas Express rules clearly define everything and consider making the BCA rules more clear in the same manner.

Note: I read these rules at texasexpress.com, but the web site seems to be down right now.

littleCajun
03-30-2005, 01:04 PM
The same person who wrote the Texas Express Rules, is also head of the BCA Rules committe.

Could you provide an example of the confussion. It could be a interptation problem or use of words could cause confussion.

I can pass the info along.

Bob_Jewett
03-30-2005, 01:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> The same person who wrote the Texas Express Rules, is also head of the BCA Rules committe. <hr /></blockquote>

To the best of my knowledge, there is no BCA Rules Committee and there has not been one for about four years. I was on the Committee when the BCA decided it was no longer useful.

Billy_Bob
03-30-2005, 01:25 PM
Well let me try to remember....

I think one thing was touching an object ball with your cue stick (8-ball). I think there were several different references to this, a couple saying not a foul, and yet another saying it was a foul if the object ball was in motion. We had three people looking at their rule books and it took about 15 minutes to find the answer.

What actually happened was a player touched an object ball while it was in motion from his shot, so it was in fact a foul.

Seems to me rules such as this could be easier to find and more clear if all references to the rule were placed under the same heading/topic rather than being burried under three different topics.

Perhaps call it: Touching of object ball with cue, hand, or other object. [Then all rules applying to this subject].

Double hits, and push shot rules are not very clear.

Basically the Texas Express rules spell out everything in great detail. So there is no confusion. Also have more specific topics for various situations. So easy and quick to read just the topic headings and find the rules which apply.

theinel
03-30-2005, 01:32 PM
I agree that there are lots of spots in the WPA/BCA rules that could use clarification. I've seen mention in other threads that Bob Jewett is currently working with the WPA/BCA on revising the rules. Do you have an update for us on that Bob?

I would also love to see something published similar to "Decisions on the Rules of Golf" which the USGA publishes that is full of interpretations of specific cases and rulings that have been made over the years.

Billy_Bob
03-30-2005, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> To the best of my knowledge, there is no BCA Rules Committee and there has not been one for about four years. <hr /></blockquote>

BTW - Would there now be 3 different rules organizations?

-BCA
-BCA League
-ACS

(I recently played in a tournament which went by "ACS rules". I asked how these rules were different from BCA rules, and was told that for now, they are still the same as BCA. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif)

randyg
03-30-2005, 01:40 PM
BILLY_BOB: The Texas Express group thanks you for the compliment. The late John McChesney, Robin Adair and Randy Goettlicher certainly changed the face of 9-ball.

Bob Jewitt was on the BCA Rules Committee after the changes took place. He is perfect for the Committee right now. I spent close to 20 years on the BCA Rules Committee. Many Texas Express ideas were incorporated into BCA rules, with our permission. I sure wish I knew what was going to happen to the BCA Rule Book.......SPF-randyg

Deeman2
03-30-2005, 02:14 PM
I have a rules question in 8 ball. When I entered the SWEL BCA league, I was told by an opposing team that power breaks were not allowed (hitting the second, third ball in the rack). Last week a guy broke against me wiht that break and we could not find a rule that prevented this.

Is there a rule I am missing in SWEL?

Deeman

Barbara
03-30-2005, 02:35 PM
Deeman,

You been had! I suggest you go find that team that gave you the bad info and let them know you won't fall for their lies anymore!

There is no BCA rule that prohibits you from hitting the 2nd or 3rd ball in the rack.

Barbara

dr_dave
03-30-2005, 02:46 PM
FYI, I have a concise summary (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/rules_summary.pdf) of the BCA rules posted on my website (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/).

Dr. Dave

randyg
03-30-2005, 03:29 PM
DEEMAN: SWEL has another rule. "He who doe's not know BCA Rules gets shafted."......SPF-randyg

SpiderMan
03-30-2005, 03:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> To the best of my knowledge, there is no BCA Rules Committee and there has not been one for about four years. <hr /></blockquote>

BTW - Would there now be 3 different rules organizations?

-BCA
-BCA League
-ACS

(I recently played in a tournament which went by "ACS rules". I asked how these rules were different from BCA rules, and was told that for now, they are still the same as BCA. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif)
<hr /></blockquote>
Possibly for reasons involving pride, ACS representatives insist we are playing by "world standardized rules", not "BCA rules".

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
03-30-2005, 04:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> I have a rules question in 8 ball. When I entered the SWEL BCA league, I was told by an opposing team that power breaks were not allowed (hitting the second, third ball in the rack). Last week a guy broke against me wiht that break and we could not find a rule that prevented this.
Is there a rule I am missing in SWEL?
Deeman <hr /></blockquote>
Dee,

I know of no BCA rule specifying which balls can or cannot be hit on the break. No "power break" rule either, except that you must drive four balls to the rail.

APA rules specify that you must hit the first or second ball. APA also requires that you break "hard". No quantification given of what "hard" means, in APA. That's probably the silliest rule I found in all the APA handouts.

SpiderMan

Wally_in_Cincy
03-31-2005, 06:07 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> ...APA rules specify that you must hit the first or second ball. APA also requires that you break "hard". No quantification given of what "hard" means <hr /></blockquote>

APA also specifies that 4 balls must be driven to a rail.

Don't remember reading the "hard" thing. I bet 50% of the folks in my league are incapable of breaking what I would consider "hard".

Deeman2
03-31-2005, 06:53 AM
Thanks everyone,

Last night I started breaking hitting the second ball and was called on it but, of course, it was not in the book so I am now breaking as I want.

I do normally know all the rules of the league/tournament that I play in but with so many different formats to contend with I had let this one slide. The team that had told me had been in BCA for two years so I just assumed they were knowledgable players. It was just not a big deal until I hit a dry spot making balls on the break. Last night, I cured that.

Deeman

littleCajun
03-31-2005, 07:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> The same person who wrote the Texas Express Rules, is also head of the BCA Rules committe. <hr /></blockquote>

To the best of my knowledge, there is no BCA Rules Committee and there has not been one for about four years. I was on the Committee when the BCA decided it was no longer useful. <hr /></blockquote>


Bob, Sorry I ment to use past instead of present tense.f

SpiderMan
03-31-2005, 09:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> ...APA rules specify that you must hit the first or second ball. APA also requires that you break "hard". No quantification given of what "hard" means <hr /></blockquote>

APA also specifies that 4 balls must be driven to a rail.

Don't remember reading the "hard" thing. I bet 50% of the folks in my league are incapable of breaking what I would consider "hard". <hr /></blockquote>

Wally,

Two years ago, "hard" was in the handouts we were given for singles competition in 'Vegas. At the time, they did not specify number of balls to the rail. It seemed incredibly vague for tournament competition.

Are you sure the 4-ball rule you quoted is national APA material, or is it a local by-law of your league? I haven't played APA for a couple of years now (didn't like the serial format that keeps you there all night with nothing for a non-drinker to do unless there's karaoke).

SpiderMan

Barbara
03-31-2005, 09:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>
Are you sure the 4-ball rule you quoted is national APA material, or is it a local by-law of your league? I haven't played APA for a couple of years now (didn't like the serial format that keeps you there all night with nothing for a non-drinker to do unless there's karaoke).

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

It's in there for 9-ball.

Barbara

SpiderMan
03-31-2005, 09:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>
Are you sure the 4-ball rule you quoted is national APA material, or is it a local by-law of your league? I haven't played APA for a couple of years now (didn't like the serial format that keeps you there all night with nothing for a non-drinker to do unless there's karaoke).

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

It's in there for 9-ball.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

But not 8-ball? I guess I should have specified, I went to the 8-ball singles. Never played APA 9-ball.

SpiderMan

SPetty
03-31-2005, 09:53 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> It's in there for 9-ball.<hr /></blockquote>But not 8-ball? <hr /></blockquote>The APA rules are on line here: http://www.poolplayers.com/8-9-ball-Rules.pdf

For 8-ball, it states:
3. Breaking - To be a legal break, players must break
from behind the head string, the head ball or second
ball must be struck first and at least four object balls
must be driven to the rails or a ball must be pocketed.

Deeman2
03-31-2005, 10:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> Never played APA 9-ball.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">I played APA nine ball last year and really liked the format better than BCA. You played one match, each ball counted a point with the nine worth two. Coaching was allowed so low hanidcapped players learned a lot but, alas, there was no prize money at the end, just trophies. They are trying to start APA here now but the lack of prize money has it doomed. </font color>

Deeman

Barbara
03-31-2005, 10:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I went to the 8-ball singles. Never played APA 9-ball.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Trust me, it's different. You play for points, you don't win by sinking the 9.

This will be the first week I'll be playing at the same S/L level as the week before. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Barbara~~~was on an S/L rollercoaster ride for 8 weeks...

Bob_Jewett
03-31-2005, 11:05 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>... The APA rules ...... the head ball or second ball must be struck first ... <hr /></blockquote>
Clearly a rule that is not needed.