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SnakebyteXX
04-01-2005, 08:10 AM
31 Mar 2005 23:33:55 GMT

By David Schwartz

PHOENIX, March 31 (Reuters) - The dusty Arizona city known for the Earps and Clantons, Doc Holliday and a famous shoot-out at the O.K. Corral is about to become the setting for a showdown over the border state's most hotly contested political issue: illegal immigration.

Hundreds of volunteers are expected to rally on Friday in Tombstone, Arizona, to begin a month-long project organizers say will help spot illegal entrants coming from Mexico, but opponents say raises fears of vigilantism.

Backers say the Minuteman Project, named after militia that fought during the American Revolution, wants to focus national attention on the long U.S.-Mexico border. They express frustration with what they see as the federal government's failure to stop a flood illegal newcomers.

"This is a good, old-fashioned political protest," said Chris Simcox, a project organizer. "That seems to be the only way to get our government to pay attention to this serious domestic issue."

Opponents say such efforts detract from a serious discussion of comprehensive immigration reform and interfere with existing border patrol efforts. Critics are also wary about the potential for violence and vigilante-style justice.

Mexican President Vicente Fox said this month his government would use legal means against such groups, known in Mexico as "immigrant hunters."

"Let's all hope it doesn't spin out of control and become ugly. It certainly could fan the flames of what is a very volatile issue," said Doris Meissner, former commissioner of the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service.

"This project is a horrendously dangerous waste of time," said Jennifer Allen, executive director of the Border Action Network, formed to protect human rights along the border. "We need comprehensive reform so that immigrants don't need to risk their lives to come to this country."

The Minuteman Project comes as Arizona has emerged as the spotlight state in the debate about illegal immigration.

560,000 CAUGHT CROSSING

Border Patrol agents nabbed nearly 560,000 illegal immigrants on the roughly 350-mile (563-km) stretch of Arizona's border with Mexico last fiscal year, more than in any other state. Still more die in the scorching desert heat -- 180 people last fiscal year.

Arizona voters last year approved "Proposition 200," an initiative that attempts to crack down on illegal immigrants.

The measure blocks illegal immigrants from receiving certain public benefits and makes government workers who fail to report their cases subject to a fine and jail time.

The law, now under court challenge, also requires individuals to prove U.S. citizenship when registering to vote and show identification when casting a ballot.

Last week, Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano for the second time send an invoice to the federal government seeking some $196 million to cover the costs of housing immigrant inmates in the state's prison system.

"Arizona taxpayers carry an enormous burden for the federal government's lack of operational control of the border," said Napolitano, in a prepared statement.

Others point to the drain on the state health care and education systems.

Bruce Merrill, a pollster and Arizona State University professor, said his research has shown a growing public dismay about the immigration issue.

"There is no question that as the economy has gotten tougher, there has been more concern about illegal immigration," he said. "There's a perception that these people are coming here and taking away jobs. Then it becomes emotional, whether it's true or not."

Efforts like the Minuteman Project tap into a deep well of public frustration on the U.S. side of the border, he said.

"As the issue escalates, it becomes a high visibility issue and you would think that it has to get the federal government's attention in the long run," he said.

www.minuteman project.com

link (http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N30194755.htm)

9 Ball Girl
04-01-2005, 08:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Immigrants<hr /></blockquote>
This whole country is made up of immigrants. I hate that word.

[ QUOTE ]
"There is no question that as the economy has gotten tougher, there has been more concern about illegal immigration," he said. "There's a perception that these people are coming here and taking away jobs. Then it becomes emotional, whether it's true or not."<hr /></blockquote>
What jobs are being taken away from people? Humf!

eg8r
04-01-2005, 09:37 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This whole country is made up of immigrants. I hate that word. <hr /></blockquote> The subject heading is much clearer, Illegal immigrants.

[ QUOTE ]
What jobs are being taken away from people? Humf! <hr /></blockquote> While I don't approve of illegal immigrants being here, I really get tired of hearing the mantra of jobs being taken away. What most people continue to ignore is that having a job is not a right. A business man needs work to be done, so he offers a position for a specific wage. Take it or not. These people or not too high or mighty to work for the low wages, so they accept these positions. Then you have unions and politicians complaining that jobs are being taken away. It is complete BS.

eg8r

9 Ball Girl
04-01-2005, 09:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>The subject heading is much clearer, Illegal immigrants.<hr /></blockquote> Duh. I missed that one! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr>I really get tired of hearing the mantra of jobs being taken away. What most people continue to ignore is that having a job is not a right. A business man needs work to be done, so he offers a position for a specific wage. Take it or not. These people or not too high or mighty to work for the low wages, so they accept these positions. Then you have unions and politicians complaining that jobs are being taken away. It is complete BS.<hr /></blockquote>I completely agree. Also, if you don't speak the language, it's extremely difficult to get far in this country and you have to take the lower end jobs to be able to live day by day. Unfortunately, there are people who have the advantage of being schooled here in this country and make nothing of it. I see this a lot.

SpiderMan
04-01-2005, 11:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
While I don't approve of illegal immigrants being here, I really get tired of hearing the mantra of jobs being taken away. What most people continue to ignore is that having a job is not a right. A business man needs work to be done, so he offers a position for a specific wage. Take it or not. These people or not too high or mighty to work for the low wages, so they accept these positions. Then you have unions and politicians complaining that jobs are being taken away. It is complete BS.
eg8r <hr /></blockquote>
There is always the element of BS, but it is not complete. Both sides always use hyperbole. But regarding your statement of offering a specific job at a specific wage, take it or leave it .... if I have trouble filling a position, I must raise the offer or the work goes undone. If I am swamped by a sea of job-seekers, I can pay less and still fill my positions. It's supply and demand, simple economics. More workers, legal or otherwise, means more demand for the available positions. Good for some businesses, bad for some individuals.

SpiderMan

theinel
04-01-2005, 03:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr>560,000 CAUGHT CROSSING

Border Patrol agents nabbed nearly 560,000 illegal immigrants on the roughly 350-mile (563-km) stretch of Arizona's border with Mexico last fiscal year, more than in any other state. Still more die in the scorching desert heat -- 180 people last fiscal year.<hr /></blockquote>
560k caught in Arizona alone in just one year? How many got through in Arizona? How many along the entire border? I live in Florida and know that the problem is bad but i had no idea that it was that bad. Is that number correct?

SnakebyteXX
04-01-2005, 04:22 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Is that number correct? <hr /></blockquote>

I have no reason to doubt it. The last time I checked there are allegedly over eleven million illegal immigrants currently residing in this country.

SpiderMan
04-01-2005, 04:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SnakebyteXX:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Is that number correct? <hr /></blockquote>

I have no reason to doubt it. The last time I checked there are allegedly over eleven million illegal immigrants currently residing in this country.
<hr /></blockquote>
Approximately half that number may be found on any Saturday afternoon, at Rack Daddy's Abrams (in Dallas). They'll be on one of the back tables playing Mexican Bang-a-Ball (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=140875&amp;Foru m=All_Forums&amp;Words=mexican%20bang-a-ball&amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;O ld=allposts&amp;Main=140875&amp;Search=true#Post140875) . Just look for the crowd, woofing and chattering around a table covered with white hand powder.

SpiderMan

nhp
04-03-2005, 04:39 AM
I see that game played all the time out here.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-03-2005, 06:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I've never seen this game outside of Texas.


<hr /></blockquote>

We happened by a joint called Sportsman's in Columbus OH a few months ago and that game was being played. I've not seen it in Cincy.

SecaucusFats
04-03-2005, 11:28 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I've never seen this game outside of Texas.


<hr /></blockquote>

We happened by a joint called Sportsman's in Columbus OH a few months ago and that game was being played. I've not seen it in Cincy. <hr /></blockquote>

The game in question is popular in different countries throughout Latin America. In Cuba it is called "Chicago", in Mexico, Central America, and Colombia it is called "Pool Armado" and / or "Billas" (bee-yas), Chileans call it "Jardinera" (Har-dee-neh-rah).

I played the game once, about ten years ago and I don't remember the rules. But if I recall correctly, it is a rotation game.

I lived in Puerto Rico for seven years but last pocket 8 ball, 9 ball, and to a lesser degree, straight pool, are the favorite games there. I never saw Chicago played in PR.

It's pretty popular in the local taverns that cater to Mexicans and Central Americans here in North Jersey, but is rarely seen in places that have a more mixed clientele.

I don't frequent the Mexican/ Central American joints because they have a quaint custom of getting snot-flinging drunk on paydays and celebrating with hellacious bar fights (complete with the occasional stabbing). All it takes is one "Chinga tu madre guey!" /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

9 Ball Girl
04-03-2005, 01:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SecaucusFats:</font><hr> All it takes is one "Chinga tu madre guey!" /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
<hr /></blockquote>Que trancas ese, que onda? Al rato, guey... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wendy&lt;---mejor me chupo una chela...

SpiderMan
04-04-2005, 02:27 PM
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&amp;cid=2026&amp;ncid=2026&amp;e=1&amp;u=/latimests/20050404/ts_latimes/aroadblocknotabarrierformigrants

"Although only about 200 activists have shown up, their efforts have already had a dramatic, if perhaps short-term effect.

This vast desert border just west of Douglas, Ariz., is the busiest illegal crossing point in the nation. Enriquez said more than 400 people a day walk these harsh trails. But news of the Minutemen's arrival, combined with media hype in Mexico, has cut the traffic to a few dozen a day."

SpiderMan