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SpiderMan
06-04-2002, 12:03 PM
Ever get a "dead tip" amongst all the good ones in a box? A dead tip is one that makes a little different sound, and usually seems to "absorb" a little too much of the action off the tip?

This weekend I got my first-ever "dead" triangle tip. I had postponed changing my tip until after APA and BCA nationals, to avoid having to get accustomed to any new equipment. Saturday afternoon I put on a new triangle. Sunday I trimmed it and went to play. It was a dead tip. When I got home I cut it off and replaced it, but first I looked at it under a magnifier. I could see the slightest beginnings of sponginess in the leather. I couldn't grab and pull it, but if I put sideways pressure on it I could see it move more than I expect from a tip of that hardness.

Furthermore, I began wondering if I caused the problem by getting in a hurry on the lathe, taking too deep a cut when trimming the sidewalls. I was running late ....

Anyway, I'm now thinking that the "dead tip" phenomenon might just be an early precursor of the spongy tip, and that it might be a function of the installation rather than quality control at the factory. I've heard other tip guys complain about certain tips having more "dead ones" in the box than others. I believe some tips are more prone to installation damage than others (re Blackheart's recent Talisman thread), and these guys are causing slight damage without realizing what they've done. The tip sounds and acts a little dead, and they blame quality control at the manufacturer rather than look at it closely to see the damage.

SpiderMan

BLACKHEART
06-04-2002, 04:44 PM
HI SPIDERMAN, how's your game. I kind of wanted to interject something that relates to your post. If you reread my posts about the installation of Tallisman tips, I NEVER blamed the tips or their manufacturer. I only said, that of all of the layrered tips, I have put on, I only have problems with the Tallisman tips. In my posts I asked for anyone who could help me & tell me what I'm doing wrong. Since there are a lot of people useing them, it must be something that I don't do right. In the thread I had several posts that said they didn't know what the problem was because, they have been useing Morri or some other layered tip for years & never had this problem. I don't have any problems either, except with this particular tip. Obviously I just don't know something that I should. Thanks & good luck with the new tip...JER

SpiderMan
06-04-2002, 04:55 PM
Jerry,

I wasn't meaning to imply that you blamed the tips, I just used your thread as an example (because people would remember it) to show that certain tips are more sensitive to installation. Sorry if it came out wrong. Although, in the case of the Talismans, it seems that the tips might actually be partly to blame for being so easily damaged.

I was just saying that I think I might have created my own problem with the triangle, and putting that out for comments. It's the first time that I've encountered a dead triangle, and I wondered what others would think of my deduction that (1) Dead tips are actually a lesser case of spongy or broken-down tips, and (2) Dead tips may have been killed during installation, not manufacture.

Still wondering if I'm correct.

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: BLACKHEART:</font><hr> HI SPIDERMAN, how's your game. I kind of wanted to interject something that relates to your post. If you reread my posts about the installation of Tallisman tips, I NEVER blamed the tips or their manufacturer. I only said, that of all of the layrered tips, I have put on, I only have problems with the Tallisman tips. In my posts I asked for anyone who could help me &amp; tell me what I'm doing wrong. Since there are a lot of people useing them, it must be something that I don't do right. In the thread I had several posts that said they didn't know what the problem was because, they have been useing Morri or some other layered tip for years &amp; never had this problem. I don't have any problems either, except with this particular tip. Obviously I just don't know something that I should. Thanks &amp; good luck with the new tip...JER <hr></blockquote>

BLACKHEART
06-04-2002, 11:48 PM
No offense taken. In my area the softer tips have become very popular. I put on a ton of these &amp; indeed some of them have come back, in short order, as being "spongy". I replace them free of charge &amp; write it off as a learning tool. The soft tip especially will not fair well to a lot of scuffing or shaping. Even so, I only have a small number of these. As far as a harder tip like yours, all I can say is that it does happens, but very rarely. Good luck &amp; stick with the tip, it's one of my favorites...JER

Chris Cass
06-05-2002, 12:24 AM
Hi Spiderman,
Speaking of the nonlayered tips. What some might call a bad batch. If the leather is defective it usually spungy on the side of the tip. I'm thinking of the leather becoming moist and something like dry rotted. I've had LePros like this.

I've known for sometime that when the side walls of a tip become cut by a leathe or any other means it becomes weaker. That's when the tip needs burnishing, to seal the leather. I took a LePro and wet it. Then crushed it in a vice. Needless to say after I took it out of the vice from overnight. It became spongy and the leather was seperating within the middle. So, That's what I'm thinking happened.

Regards,

C.C.~~degree'd leather mini skirt expert.

TonyM
06-05-2002, 01:11 PM
Dead tips are common amongst some of the one-piece varieties. Elk masters, Lepros etc. are prone to this problem. And yes, sometimes it is an installation problem. The tip can be damaged by excessive side force due to dull tooling, or incorrect speed/feeds etc.

However, I still feel that the problem is mainly due to the nature of a 1 piece leather tip. It is impossible to control the quality (it is after all a natural product) to completely eliminate this problem.

This is why the laminated pigskin tips are more consistent. It is unlikely that all of the laminations will be dead in a given tip. For this reason alone (not any perfomance consideration) the laminated tips are an improvement over the 1 piece tips.

Tony
-still likes 1 piece tips, it's just harder to find a really good one......