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Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 04:20 AM
Julie Fran and Karen are charging $150.00 for their 5 hour Pool Workshop, do you think this is a good deal?
Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sid_Vicious
04-07-2005, 04:36 AM
What's the class size Gayle???sid

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 04:42 AM
As I understand it, my friend, the size of the class will be limited, in order for the students to get concentrated attention.

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Sid_Vicious
04-07-2005, 04:57 AM
That's the way it ought to be IMO. Limited still leaves a lot of power to crank up the class size though and still call it "limited." The 150 for 5hrs doesn't sound bad to me if the class size doesn't baloon into double digits. Jm2c...sid

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 05:21 AM
I don't think that will be allowed to happen in this case. As I understand it, there will be a cut off point once the numbers reach so many per instructor. I'm glad I got my pre-registration in early.

Also, there are to be some give-away's and refreshments, and a question and answer period.

Sounds like a very casual, but intense workshop though!

Really looking forward to it!

Love,
Gayle /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wally_in_Cincy
04-07-2005, 06:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Julie...<hr /></blockquote>

can julie teach me her stroke?

Wally &lt;~~ in all seriousness, would love to get a lesson from Fran.

Barbara
04-07-2005, 06:48 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
Wally &lt;~~ in all seriousness, would love to get a lesson from Fran. <hr /></blockquote>

In all seriousness Wally, you should take a lesson from Fran! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Barbara

Wally_in_Cincy
04-07-2005, 06:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> In all seriousness Wally, you should take a lesson from Fran! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

So what are you saying Barbara? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

You have seen me shoot. But I'll have you know, at CCB III I did not get a chance to warm up, the pockets were too tight, I was hung over, blah blah blah /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 06:57 AM
Are you sure you want to learn it? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif Something tells me that that stroke wouldn't work for most of us, LOL.
Gayle in Md.

Barbara
04-07-2005, 06:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr>
So what are you saying Barbara? /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

You have seen me shoot. But I'll have you know, at CCB III I did not get a chance to warm up, the pockets were too tight, I was hung over, blah blah blah /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

I knew you were going to read it like that!

Nothing personal, Wally. It's just that I think Fran is a top-notch instructor.

Hey! I shot like crap at the CCB III, too! I just could not get going!

Barbara

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 07:12 AM
Man, don't you just hate that, when you are shooting around folks from the CCB, and you just can't get it together! Then you always want to say, "But No, really, I CAN shoot atleast better than THIS! And you know they'll never beleive you, LOL, when does that stuff go away? then there are other times when you are so on that it would even matter if Allison was watching you, just can't miss, course, those days are rare for me, LMAO!

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 07:15 AM
Hey Walley, won't be any better time than this. If you come, I'll buy your lunch! I'll even wear my fake "I voted for Bush" button, LOL.

Gayle in Md., would love it if Wally came too!

Brian in VA
04-07-2005, 08:00 AM
Gayle,
So far I'm 3 for 3 shooting like that in the CCB tourneys. Look like I've never had a cue in my hands. I'm going to make myself play better this time around.

Brian in VA

Wally_in_Cincy
04-07-2005, 08:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr>
I knew you were going to read it like that!

Nothing personal, Wally. It's just that I think Fran is a top-notch instructor.
<hr /></blockquote>

I knew what you meant. I just couldn't resist the chance to make a funny. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 08:47 AM
Hi Brian,
It's the darndest thing isn't it? CCBitis, LOL we can add that to the Pool disease list! Everytime Scott Lee comes to visit, I get struck down with it! He never believes me when I try to tell him how much better I shoot when he isn't here, LMAO!

Gayle in Md. Sure to get a relapse of CCBitis in NY at the workshop!

SpiderMan
04-07-2005, 08:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Julie Fran and Karen are charging $150.00 for their 5 hour Pool Workshop, do you think this is a good deal?
Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Depends on the class size, and who is covering expenses.

If the instructors aren't saddled with overhead such as their own private facility, I'd say it's OK as long as there are no more than 4 or 5 people in the class. Otherwise, it's group instruction and the price is out of line with some really good private tutoring.

Once you reach a 6-person class, we're talking about every instructor grossing $300 for only a half-day's work.

SpiderMan

Popcorn
04-07-2005, 09:03 AM
Not really for 5 hours of group instruction. If you can get instruction for say $50.00 an hour one on one, it would be a much better and you would learn more. The biggest problem is the different skill levels all in the same class, it just doesn't work, someone is being left out. It could be fun but I don't see someone coming away seeing any major improvements as you would find with several lessons spread over time with a one on one instructor. It could be fun though but not really worth it in my opinion.

9 Ball Girl
04-07-2005, 09:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr>If you can get instruction for say $50.00 an hour one on one, it would be a much better and you would learn more. <hr /></blockquote>Tony Robles!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Wendy&lt;---I know, I know. It's a shameless plug... /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

landshark77
04-07-2005, 09:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 9 Ball Girl:</font><hr>

Wendy&lt;---I know, I know. It's a shameless plug... /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Please don't be trying to get this thread deleted!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif LMAO!!

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 09:27 AM
Wendy, you're a scream, too funny! I'd love to meet you while I'm in NY. And, I do want some lessons from Tony, I just sent Carol a message about that this morning! LOL.

I do think this will be an intense workshop though, according to the information I have. I'm really looking forward to it!

Gayle in Md., Wendy's a riot

Scott Lee
04-07-2005, 09:40 AM
Gayle...What are the specifics on this class? Is it being done at Corner Billiards in Manhatten (Fran's home room), or somewhere else? Five hours for $150 is very reasonable, even for a group lesson with a top flight professional instructor, and two world-class tournament players. I disagree with Popcorn that different ability levels could not benefit from this kind of class experience. Everyone benefits from shared knowledge...evem expert players.
When exactly is this class Gayle?

Scott

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 09:58 AM
Hi Scott,
Well the format involves a question and answer period, where students will be allowed to ask one on one questions, and also questions in front of the group. Also, instruction at the table in small groups, with one instructor, Karen, Julie or Fran, overseeing each group. The goal, as I understand it, is to have a casual atmosphere, with intense attention from the instructors.

Yes, it's going to be at Corner Billiards in New York, which is the home of Frans "Americanbilliardschool".. and the date is Sunday, April 24th, from 11:00 am until 4:00 pm. I also think this is a great price, since it also includes some give aways, digital pictures with Karen and Julie, and some refreshments! How can you beat that?

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

ps, Guess what, I'm finally going to meet my dear friend, Dick Leonard, I am thrilled!

Barbara
04-07-2005, 09:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Not really for 5 hours of group instruction. If you can get instruction for say $50.00 an hour one on one, it would be a much better and you would learn more.

<font color="blue">Popcorn, you can't get any one of these instructors for less than $100 an hour.</font color>

The biggest problem is the different skill levels all in the same class, it just doesn't work, someone is being left out. It could be fun but I don't see someone coming away seeing any major improvements as you would find with several lessons spread over time with a one on one instructor. It could be fun though but not really worth it in my opinion.

<font color="blue">I disagree with the "left out" part. I went to RandyG's traveling Pool School where there were 16 students (15 after the first day) and 4 instructors and none of us were left behind for a student that needed more attention.</font color> <hr /></blockquote>

I think if it's limited to 12 persons, 3 per instructor, that is not an overload at all, especially if they give each student their due. And if they see a flaw and need to make a correction, as long as they can convey clearly to the student what needs to be done, then I don't see how anyone would suffer from lack of attention.

Barbara

Popcorn
04-07-2005, 09:59 AM
Quote
"I disagree with Popcorn that different ability levels could not benefit from this kind of class experience."

Maybe, but that is too vague an answer to my comments. You could have someone there who can't even make a bridge next to someone wanting to improve their draw stroke and position play all waiting for their turn to get attention. The beginner may get little or nothing out of it since they may even be intimidated by being the worst players in the group and will never speak up or ask what they might be afraid would be perceived as a stupid question. It can be fun but is not a real venue to actual improvement. One on one is the best way and best use of ones money. Group instruction may work if it is specific to the needs of a particular group or subject such as a seminar on a subject, but if it is just general, it would be hit and miss if anyone would get anything out of it. Someone may rationalize it by saying, "If I learn one thing I can use it would be worth it". I venture to say, if they invested the money in several lessons one on one with a good instructor, they would defiantly learn more the one useful thing and it would not just be chance. Having said that, I don't see anything negative about it if someone wants to go.

Popcorn
04-07-2005, 10:12 AM
It can be fun as I said but is not the real way to get instruction for someone wanting to learn the game.

Scott Lee
04-07-2005, 10:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr>

Maybe, but that is too vague an answer to my comments. You could have someone there who can't even make a bridge next to someone wanting to improve their draw stroke and position play all waiting for their turn to get attention. The beginner may get little or nothing out of it since they may even be intimidated by being the worst players in the group and will never speak up or ask what they might be afraid would be perceived as a stupid question. It can be fun but is not a real venue to actual improvement. One on one is the best way and best use of ones money. Group instruction may work if it is specific to the needs of a particular group or subject such as a seminar on a subject, but if it is just general, it would be hit and miss if anyone would get anything out of it. Someone may rationalize it by saying, "If I learn one thing I can use it would be worth it". I venture to say, if they invested the money in several lessons one on one with a good instructor, they would defiantly learn more the one useful thing and it would not just be chance. Having said that, I don't see anything negative about it if someone wants to go. <hr /></blockquote>

Popcorn...This is your opinion, and you're certainly entitled to it, however misinformed you might be. I might agree with the "absolute" beginner you mentioned. However, if the instructors take the time and effort to point the beginner in the right direction, the beginner student would gain a lot from the experience. As far as them feeling like the 'worst player there', that is the job of the instructors to make that person feel comfortable. It CAN be done...we do it all the time. In the pool school Randy and I did in Iowa last January, we had beginners who had NO clue what a stroke was, and we had expert players like Chris Cass (and people in between)...all in the same group, and it worked perfectly. EVERYONE was happy, satisfied, and came away with lots of new information. I do agree with you, that one-to-one instruction is most likely preferable to group instruction, for many people.

Scott

Popcorn
04-07-2005, 10:30 AM
I think it's greatest value may be that it will wet someone's appetite to pursue further instruction. They will see it's value and how it is a better way to learn then personal trial and error. My original comments were directed at the original question and I think my answer was correct as to the value. You may get something out of it or you may not. With a personal instructor you are all but guaranteed results. $150.00 will buy you three hours of one on one instruction with most instructors and is a better use of the money then a 5 hour group session in my opinion. That was the original question.

Scott Lee
04-07-2005, 10:38 AM
Popcorn...We'll just have to agree to disagree! LOL I think either way is an appriopriate method of securing instruction. What I read in your post, was more of a negative psychological effect, for the lesser skillod participant, which I totally disagreed with. It's up to the teacher to make the student feel welcome and comfortable to participate. As a competent instuctor myself, I recommend to my students that they get lessons from as many qualified teachers as they can. Then they can pick and choose what they learn, for use in their own personal games. However, things like fundamentals and mechanics are always going to be relatively the same, even though they may be taught using different styles and terminology.

Scott Lee

Sid_Vicious
04-07-2005, 10:40 AM
Scott...I think you've heard my recap during one of your early Dallas trips concerning an experience a female friend of mine had in one of these schools, her being told once, "You should have taken a beginner's class first, you are holding back the class", and that was where it was left, very little gained, especially self-esteem. This lady happened to be a real question asker in her personal nature, which is good, right!? I will leave out the school name out of respect, but the point is that even the most prominent schools teaching groups are very weak to different levels of players. Jm2c...sid

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 10:47 AM
Hi Popcorn, how's it going friend.
I can see you point, but you never know, I had an expierience with one instructor, not one from CCB BTW, but someone who had been in the top levels for sure. I was paying $50.00 an hour. I went three or four times, and got one good thing out of it. This person got stuck on teaching me one issue that I had some trouble with, and just wouldn't go on to anything else. Communication skills were not good, and the person said the same phrase about the same issue over and over. I really think it made me so umcomfortable, I probably couldn't have learned from that individual. I play well enough that we could have moved on to something else, but it was as if this instructor thought that that one thing had to be right, before we could go any further, and it had nothing to do with stroke or stance, which I was told was perfect, it was an aiming thing, LOL.

Anyway, others who frequented that particular room came up to me afterwards and told me that they too had taken lessons, and dropped out for the same reason.

Some folks who can "DO" can't teach, while others can do both. It is always a chance involved when you purchase anything. In this case, the person knew so many people there, we were also constantly interrupted by friends who kept comming over to chat with the instructor during my lesson. I gave it several shots, liked the individual as a person, but the value of the lesson, and time spent, couldn't begin to compare with what I get from time spent with Scott. I'm just pointing out that one on one can be disappointing also. This person was highly recommended to me too...win some lose some, I guess, but you have to keep at it I think...
Gayle in Md.

CarolNYC
04-07-2005, 10:48 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Tony Robles!!! <hr /></blockquote>
GREAT PLUG-Go Wendy! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Carol

Scott Lee
04-07-2005, 10:56 AM
sid...This is an old story, and yes I have heard your version of it, as well as the other side. There are ALWAYS two sides to any story or issue. I'm not going to get into this one, as I was not there. But there are viable points on both sides, imo. This was also several years ago, and the classes continue to be upgraded and improved almost every time they do another school. The Cue Tech manual is in a constant state of replacing things, adding to, or finding a better way to communicate something in writing!
Just so you know, every former student is welcome to audit another pool school, at NO CHARGE!

Scott Lee

Wally_in_Cincy
04-07-2005, 11:04 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr>
...In this case, the person knew so many people there, we were also constantly interrupted by friends who kept comming over to chat with the instructor during my lesson....
<hr /></blockquote>

That was one thing I liked about my lesson with Scott Lee. He did not get distracted from the program and did not go off on tangents like so many teachers (of all subjects) tend to do. I got more than my money's worth.

Scott Lee
04-07-2005, 11:21 AM
Thanks Wally! The check's in the mail! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif LOL

Scott

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 11:36 AM
Me too, ofcourse, when he comes here, I lock the door, and keep him prisoner. I do go and shove a little food under his door at night, that is after he collapses from exhaustion, LMAO! He's a great instructor, and I've heard that same of Fran. One great thing about Scott, is that he encourages his students to check out other instructors, also.

Gotta go check my mailbox now....LOL

Gayle in Md.

Tom_In_Cincy
04-07-2005, 11:40 AM
Yeah Wally,
We stuck you guys in the 'back corner' of the pool room, away from every one else.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

eg8r
04-07-2005, 11:46 AM
If the groups are not large, then certainly. There is a wealth of knowledge there and if you can afford it, and you feel you get something from it, then it was worth it.

You will only know if it is a good deal after the fact. Let us know how the workshop went. One of these days, I will be in NYC and hope to have enough time to fit in a lesson with Fran. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 12:24 PM
I'll let you know Ed. Fran's reputation, and Scotts, Randy's, Tony's, all great instructors I am sure. I want lessons from all of them. I think it is going to be really interesting to delve into the aspects of snooker shooters, and how they conformed their stroke, stance etc, which will be one of the subjects discussed.

I have a feeling that this will be an extremely valuable and interesting day, more than worth the money.

Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

pooltchr
04-07-2005, 12:59 PM
Gayle,
You might get the opportunity. Randy may be coming to Charlotte this fall if we can get enough interested students...and if I can talk Scott into swinging through the area about the same time, it might turn out to be a great opportunity. Will keep you posted as things develop.
Steve

Sid_Vicious
04-07-2005, 01:29 PM
As you may already be able to tell, I am more in Popcorn's corner with this group teaching phylosophy. I find it much like taking a Microsoft class, such as Exel or Powerpoint...if you happen to be a struggler, the proficient, more experienced students seem to absorb more of the teacher(s) attention. All in all, I would much rather find a one-on-one lesson at an hourly rate rather than try and get any good stuff by trying to find an open teat when it appears. Timidness can be created simply by the nature of the arena, this being 3 instructors managing more than 2 students apiece. At $150 it ain't that bad, but take a price like 600 and then you have a real chance of being screwed...sid

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 01:59 PM
Well, there's a lot of truth to what you are saying, friend. I recently took classes to renew my Real Estate License, and there was one gal who could relate every single law, and example to something in her own life. The teacher allowed her to monopolize the whole classroom with her stories. After a while, it actually got funny, and some in the class would actually burst into laughter when she started up. It didn't phase her though, lol.

The teacher is responsible for directing the class, but just look what happened to me in the scenario I described to Popcorn, it was one on one, but the teacher still didn't take control of the classroom, which was a poolroom, but still, she could have excused herself, and told her friends she was teaching, and would speak with them later.

I think really that those instructors mentioned in this thread are so good because they are totally dedicated to the function of teaching, and seeing the "OH WOW" process right before their eyes. That is what makes a really good teacher.

I will say this though, you're friend, with the bad experience, really should have asked for her money back, IMHO. I don't want to get into where it was, doesn't matter really, but if you pay your money out, and really come away feeling that you got gyped, then you should ask for a refund, and anyone who didn't give you your money back, would be creating a bad name for themselves.

Gayle in Md.

Gayle in MD
04-07-2005, 02:04 PM
Well, you know, he's going to be here in Md., also, in June, I think. Been looking into that also. Thanks...
Gayle in Md.

Harold Acosta
04-07-2005, 09:34 PM
Hey Barbara and Wally!

The CCB III field was pretty much leveled. At one time, a little birdie told me I was leading the pack, but I couldn't hold on. Needless to say it was just plain fun. Too bad I didn't take more time to be with all of you. Maybe this year?

CarolNYC
04-08-2005, 02:51 AM
Hey Gayle,
Ive read these posts and would like to say this:
As you know, I have been friends with Fran and have attended MANY of her workshops!She is very dedicated and takes great pride in her teaching-this is HER academy and I know, each student will be given the proper attention, no matter what caliber(beginner,advanced,intermediate_-because I've been there-I seen it!She will NOT let a student walk away saying "I learned squat" ya know what I mean?
No teacher would want that!
Being that, I've been with her when she was the sole teacher, I can only imagine that,with Julie and Karen assisting, it can only be an absolute intense and great learning experience!
And as far as this "5 hour" time period, there is no time period-unless EVERYONE has learned something, she goes the extra mile, no matter how long it takes!
If I dont have a tournament, I'll meet you up there!
Carol

9 Ball Girl
04-08-2005, 07:30 AM
Are you going to make it to VA this year with the rest of the PR contingent, Harold?

Gayle in MD
04-08-2005, 08:32 AM
Hey WOMAN! That would be great! A chance to spend a day with Fran, you, Dick leonard, Karen Coor and Julie Kelly, I'll think I've died and gone to heaven!
You know I would love to see you friend.

Hey Carol, I could always tell that Fran was a great teacher just by reading her posts. When certain teachers express themselves here, their intense dedication to the process of teaching is evident in their words. I know you've known Fran for a long time, and know what a great teacher she is.

Man, I sure hope you make it that day!

Love,
Gayle

howard23
04-08-2005, 06:46 PM
what is a pool workshop?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Troy
04-08-2005, 07:52 PM
Lessons with plenty of hands on time.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote howard23:</font><hr> what is a pool workshop?
/ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Harold Acosta
04-08-2005, 08:55 PM
I have been offered a free trip to the Open again this year; however, I have to attend the CPB General Assembly in May 2005.

I'm also in the middle of preparing our National Tournament this coming Sunday to select the Players that will go to the Panamerican Championships in May. The Panamerican is a qualifier for the World Pool Championships. If we qualify any player at the CPB, we have to also try to get them to the World Championships in July. I will need several days to get the sponsorships.

Then we will have a Gran Prix in Curacao in August, and I have to already start preparations for our own Gran Prix in October. This means that I will be exhausting a several days of annual leave at work.

I don't know if taking leave in May, July, August and October will leave any days for me to go in September to the Open. We will just have to wait and see.

If we could only secure sponsorships (several K's) before September, I may be able to make it to the Open.