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JimS
06-05-2002, 06:00 AM
I'm having problems with this site and no others. It's taking forever for things to load on this site while other sites are working normally.

Anyone else having this problem? It started yesterday. Any ideas what's going on? It's slower than mud!

I changed preferences to show a week only instead of all posts and we have cable not dial-up. What's up??

cheesemouse
06-05-2002, 06:10 AM
JimS,
I noticed the same problem Jim and I'm on cable broadband. Once I clicked a thread and it sent me to the home page of BD. I'm beginning to think there server is cutting there pipes down or BD is getting more hits and have'nt increased the size of their pipes. The AZ board loads in a blink of the eye but then it has little traffic. I guess I'm spoiled and expect everything now. /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Doctor_D
06-05-2002, 06:13 AM
Good morning:

I am experiencing the same problem and I have a dedicated T1 line (1.54 Mbps) which I use to access the Internet. Looks like Billiards Digest has a problem !!!

/ccboard/images/icons/frown.gif

Dr. D.

06-05-2002, 06:40 AM
Good morning and yes, i have been having the same problem since yesterday late afternoon with broadband cable just from this site too... Q-BALL

BLACKHEART
06-05-2002, 06:52 AM
I thought it was just me, but I'm having the same problems with this site, too...JER

WaltVA
06-05-2002, 07:25 AM
Yep, same here. Thanks for the post - thought it was my computer.

Walt in VA

ccboard_admin_back
06-05-2002, 08:58 AM
We are currently experiencing 50% packet lost on any pages on this site. Our ISP has informed us of this problem and currently working to correct. We will keep you updated as to the progress and apologize for the inconvenience this is causing on the board.

JimS
06-05-2002, 11:16 AM
Welp, I have no idea what 50% packet loss means but that's ok. I appreciate you noticing my post quickly and makeing your reply....that's what counts in my book.

I also noticed that the posts I've read are no longer highlighted as having been read...part of the same problem I suppose?

Thanks for your help. I TRULY appreciate having the ccb available. It has enriched my life.

Barbara
06-05-2002, 05:28 PM
Jim,

Computers send packets, or datagrams, over the Internet. These packets are sent in a "best effort" delivery system. That is, they are sent from one host to another and the packets can go different routes to end up at the same destination. There is no way for the receiving host to know if all the packets they requested (such as viewing a post) showed up, or for that matter, whether they showed up in the correct order.

50% loss means that somewhere, some router is not doing its job.

Barbara~~~hopefully I'm right on this or I'd better go and hit the books for the midterm coming up....

06-05-2002, 05:32 PM
Well, you were incorrect on the "There is no way for the receiving host to know if all the packets they requested (such as viewing a post) showed up, or for that matter, whether they showed up in the correct order." part.

That's what TCP is for. For the receiving host to know if all the packets showed up, and to put them in the right order before passing them up the IP stack. The site has a 50% packet loss, so it is loading slowly. But it is loading. And correctly. It's just taking a while to do so. That's because the receiving host (your client computer) can know, based on the TCP sequence numbers, which packets haven't arrived, and what the correct order is. If it wasn't for that, the page would not load at all or would not retain the original information that was sent.

06-05-2002, 05:42 PM
I'm only 30 and I feel like an old IT guy now! I just cracked open a TCP/IP book that I bought when I first got into the business. I haven't opened the book in a LONG time. I wanted to take a look back through it, just to see how my perspective on the stuff within has changed over the years. It has this in it...

"...the initial sequence number normally starts at 1 and is incremented by 64,000 every half-second and every time an active open is performed." Wow. Can you say "TCP sequence prediction attack"? That's a really old one.

Doctor_D
06-05-2002, 05:52 PM
Good evening:

As a bean counter, who has been working to turn around a financially distressed telecommunications firm for the last 15 months, I have learned more about IP, VoIP, DS1s, DS3s, OC3s, OC12s, OC48s, Ciscos, Lucents, lit fiber, dark fiber, DIDs, DODs, RBOCs, etc., then I would have ever had a desire to learn. WOW, it was like learning a new language!

Dr. D.

cheesemouse
06-05-2002, 05:59 PM
Mine just kicked back into highgear. That's nice........

Barbara
06-05-2002, 06:27 PM
Mike,

We've only touched lightly on the TCP protocols and we haven't gotten into the fields' range of values or variables.

So what you're telling me is that because the system is slow, the "time to live" field in the packets are counting down to 0 and the packet gets thrown away. And if a fragmented datagram loses some of its packets, the whole datagram can't be reassembled. Therefore, no data.
Okay, so back to the books!! /ccboard/images/icons/wink.gif

Barbara~~~actually thinks this is neat stuff!! (I told you Babs was the fun one!)

Doctor_D
06-05-2002, 06:39 PM
Good evening:

Disregard all I said before. This stuff is all Greek to me...

Dr. D.

Doctor_D
06-05-2002, 06:41 PM
Good evening:

I'll take Debits and Credits and Negative Amortization over Tech Talk any day !!!

Dr. D.

Barbara
06-05-2002, 06:45 PM
Dr. D,

You should have seen some of the looks on the kiddies' faces yesterday in class when the teacher talked about the 5 classes if IP addresses and asked us to calculate the highest and lowest network ids in each class.

I do believe he lost half of them.

Barbara~~~can manipulate bits and bytes with the best of them...

ccboard_admin_back
06-05-2002, 07:26 PM
The site should be back and running normal. The problem was with an edge router in Qwest's backbone and has been corrected.

After reading some of these posts it looks like we have some real network guru's here.

JimS
06-05-2002, 07:41 PM
All I know is that losing 50% of my packets would mean that I'm in deep doo doo and that it might be painful! Sounds like a personal problem!!. I'm just glad it works now. Thanks all for the education. WAY more than I could process in my old 286 pre-pentium processor of a brain. Hell I still do all my word processing on MS Works version 1.0!

Doctor_D
06-06-2002, 04:38 AM
Good morning CCB Administrator:

Qwest, < grrrrr > now I understand why you have been experiencing so many problems. We have Two (2) OC48s from Qwest and they are one big headache!

Dr. D.

bigalerickson
06-06-2002, 04:53 AM
Feed me amortization. depreciation. federal taxes. time value of money. calculus. but pretty please don't tell me how the internet works. I blow a fuse.

BigAl - loves that his computer works - loves that he has no idea why - loves that its okay he has no idea why

heater451
06-06-2002, 09:53 AM
Not that anyone asked, but. . . .

Imagine that you are in a new pool hall, with, say, ten pool tables. You are assigned to table #9, and the rack-boy/girl escorts you.

The table number, in this case, represents it's IP (Internet Protocol)address, so the rack-person knows where to go with the balls. The IP address of the front desk will be 1 for this example's puposes, so the balls would go from #1 (the server) to #9 (your computer). (This is a weak analogy, I'm really more interested in explaining the TCP part, next.)

Now, lets say that the rack-person is a bit clumsy, and drops 50% of the balls on the way to the table. The dropped balls roll everywhere, and cannot be picked up, so the rack-person heads back to the front desk. Luckily, the balls are numbered (this represents TCP-Transmission Control Protocol), so you can tell which of the balls need to be replaced. The person makes the return trip to the table, starting with eight balls, but dropping another 50% on the way (4 balls). This cycle continues: person returns for 4 more balls, drops 2; goes back for the next 2, drops 1; finally returnes with the last ball, and you can play.

The whole time that you are waiting to play, while the balls are being brought, is analogous to the time you sit at your PC, waiting for the all the requested datagram packets to reach your computer, and display through the browser.

See how simple that was? /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

JimS
06-06-2002, 10:27 AM
Soooooo.......I guess what you are saying is that somebody out there in cyber-land is a clumsy sumbitch! NOW I see!

By cricketty I think ahm gettin a handle on this computer stuff!

06-06-2002, 10:48 AM
It's like looking at a diagram of a rat colon or reading Latin. Don't try to explain it to me, my feeble brain will expolde leaving grey matter (most everything between my ears is grey) on my screen. So ppppllllleeeeaaassssseeeee stop hurting me.

Kato~~~computer idiot

06-06-2002, 10:50 AM
It's not actually a TTL (Time To Live) thing. TTL doesn't actually refer to time. It refers to hops. It is decremented by one every time it goes through an IP router. You will usually see TTL expiration issues when there is a routing loop. Such as routers pointing to each other as the destination for a subnet. The packet will go back and forth between them until the TTL expires.

What I am saying is that with the packets being lost (based on the description of "50% packet loss", I am guessing that it is a transport (not the OSI model transport layer, but referring to physical network transport infrastructure) issue), the receiving machine will, based on the data in the TCP headers, request those that didn't arrive to be sent again. The receiving machine will know that there were packets sent that it didn't receive.

06-06-2002, 10:54 AM
Wow! That is a great analogy! I'll have to remember that one! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

Rod
06-06-2002, 12:00 PM
Heater, my person never gets all the balls to my table, or in this case packets. They get lost somewhere. Just kidding that was a good explanation. When CCB experienced 50% packet loss, I had and still do sometimes lose 20 to 50%. With that combo it's hard to go anywhere.

I've been over this with my ISP and they correct it sometimes. My latest is when it's hot, and this happened last year, connection is terrible. It seems to be a heat issue. During the day it's terrible, but after 9 pm or so it works well into the early morning of the next day, say 10 AM. Then it cycles over again.
I'm not looking for answers here, but My ISP is going to replace the line from the pole to my house. I asked them to do this last summer when I had the same problem, but they must have thought I had a screw loose. They just switched nodes and called it good. During the cool season there is rarely a problem. Well thats enough BS on this, it's just that when I hear ISP's packet loss etc, my pulse gets revved up. /ccboard/images/icons/mad.gif
Of course the good part, when it is working I'm at well over 2 MB.

06-06-2002, 01:32 PM
Then one day the rains came and washed all the crops away..

Mama just looked at me and said..

Packets I'm dependin' on ya' son
to pull the family through....

Sincerely,


Clarence Carter

Barbara
06-06-2002, 02:52 PM
That was a great analogy! I was going to try one with sending several postcards each containing a letter of the word "hello" on it through the mail, but my other half wanted to watch the final episode of "The Shield" that we taped Tuesday night, so I didn't.

But thanks for putting that up!

Barbara

cheesemouse
06-06-2002, 04:01 PM
All,
I think I got vertigo when I read this thread. LOL LMAO

Barbara
06-06-2002, 07:49 PM
Thanks for the info, Mike. We just learned that in class today. I've been a programmer for 20 years now and in my present job (defense-oriented), time-to-live (time-of-day for me) has a clock value associated with it. Now I see the hops thing. And THAT Hops thing, too... heh heh heh...

TCP/IP is just about cool! You can teach this old programmer new tricks!!

Barbara~~~wooohooo!!

Doctor_D
06-06-2002, 07:51 PM
Good evening Barbara:

Sounds like you would have a blast in my client's Network Operations Center at 60 Hudson Street in NYC!

Dr. D.

Barbara
06-06-2002, 08:22 PM
Dr. D,

No way!! I'd have no idea what to do. I'm taking this course at a local Tech college (NJIT) to help me with my job in understanding Commercial-Off-The-Shelf ( COTS vs dedicated militarized) equipment and its purpose. Man! Is this explaining soooooo much that I was stoopid about.

Besides, my hubby's a hardware tech and I am a software weenie. We have a lot of interesting dinner conversations (and then some) over who's to blame on what's not working and why. So now I have more knowledge into what's going on and give a more educated argument about the software/hardware issues that ALWAYS come up at work. And dinnertime (he works for my company's customer - we met at work and then some).

Yeeehaaaaa!!!

Barbara~~~I told you guys "Babs" was the fun one... Barbara is the dweeb wannabee

Doctor_D
06-07-2002, 05:42 AM
Good morning Barbara:

Next time you are in or around NYC, and you would like a personal tour of my client's Network Operations Center at 60 Hudson Street, just let me know and I will set it up!

Dr. D.