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View Full Version : Safty = "Dirty Pool" Origins



littleCajun
04-07-2005, 08:59 AM
I would like to understand why the avg. pool hall banger thinks that safty play = "dirty pool". Your not playing pool unless you are trying to run out attitude.

I wonder how this started since the early games where games like straight pool. Where the break is a safty shot. You would never see a straight pool player break a rack wide open. Same for One Pocket ( but the break is both a defense and offensive break however).

I just wonder how this attitude started?

Wally_in_Cincy
04-07-2005, 10:25 AM
Another question is "when will it end?"

/ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

pooltchr
04-07-2005, 11:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr>
I just wonder how this attitude started? <hr /></blockquote>

It all started with a guy named Bubba who lives over in the next county from here! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

ceebee
04-07-2005, 11:48 AM
the game of Pocket Billiards breeds Winners &amp; Whiners... there are lots of Whiners &amp; few Winners.... bad gene pool.

BigRigTom
04-07-2005, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> I would like to understand why the avg. pool hall banger thinks that safty play = "dirty pool". Your not playing pool unless you are trying to run out attitude.
I wonder how this started since the early games where games like straight pool. Where the break is a safty shot. You would never see a straight pool player break a rack wide open. Same for One Pocket ( but the break is both a defense and offensive break however).

I just wonder how this attitude started? <hr /></blockquote>

I too would like to know where these guys got that from. I belong to the Moose Lodge in Simi Valley, Ca. and play on the Moose Interlodge League. There are some REALLY good players on that league and yet they still have this "BEST EFFORT" idea that you should always go for the shot.
Our league rules do not even require that the shooter hit his ball much less the rail.(Well he must hit is ball and make it to get another shot, if he does not hit his ball at all it not a foul he just doesn't shot again) If he fouls in any way he simply loses his right to shoot again and the opponent just gets the next shot from where ever the cue ball is. (If scratched or off the table it must be taken to the kitchen for the next shot)
I can almost see the eye brows going up here..he he /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I know....I thought all the same things.
Honestly after playing with these guys for a couple of years now I and several of my friends who also are students of the games would like to change the rules but the old guys simply will not discuss it. They say they play a gentleman's game and you should always try to make you shot...that is that.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-07-2005, 12:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr>

...They say they play a gentleman's game and you should always try to make you shot...that is that. <hr /></blockquote>

I would guess 98% of taverns and fraternal lodges use the same rules. I was at an AMVETS post last night and found myself kicking at my 8-ball in the kitchen after my opponent's scratch. Whaddaya gonna do...

BTW, "bar rules 8-ball" has been discussed here many times.

Barbara
04-07-2005, 12:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BigRigTom:</font><hr> I too would like to know where these guys got that from. I belong to the Moose Lodge in Simi Valley, Ca. and play on the Moose Interlodge League. There are some REALLY good players on that league and yet they still have this "BEST EFFORT" idea that you should always go for the shot.
Our league rules do not even require that the shooter hit his ball much less the rail.(Well he must hit is ball and make it to get another shot, if he does not hit his ball at all it not a foul he just doesn't shot again) If he fouls in any way he simply loses his right to shoot again and the opponent just gets the next shot from where ever the cue ball is. (If scratched or off the table it must be taken to the kitchen for the next shot)
I can almost see the eye brows going up here..he he /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I know....I thought all the same things.
Honestly after playing with these guys for a couple of years now I and several of my friends who also are students of the games would like to change the rules but the old guys simply will not discuss it. They say they play a gentleman's game and you should always try to make you shot...that is that. <hr /></blockquote>

BRT,

You just nailed my bar league rules! LOL!!

Seriously though, I never knew how great 8-ball could be until I competed in my first BCA 8-ball Nationals back in 1996. I read and re-read all the rules on the way there and tried to envision the situation as to why some of them came to be. Like the stalemate rule, for example. This tournament was the first time I played 8-ball with safeties and BIH and I realized how tactical this game really was.

When I got back home and league play was about to start, I tried to explain to the league about how we could improve on our present rules and better our league, but no one wanted to listen. So, since then and to this day, when I want to play a safety in a game, I make it more of a two-way shot instead of an obvious safety.

Barbara

Troy
04-07-2005, 01:43 PM
Not to mention the racist title given to those playing safe in "bar pool"... Disgusting.

Troy

Popcorn
04-07-2005, 01:50 PM
Pool is a very personal game and what you do to the other player is done directly to them. Golf, bowling and some other sports don't have this aspect personal aspect. They try to make you feel bad about playing safe like your not a man or looking for a cheap win. They don't like losing and look for a excuse.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-07-2005, 01:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Not to mention the racist title given to those playing safe in "bar pool"... Disgusting.

Troy <hr /></blockquote>

Troy, this subject has been broached here occasionally but everybody so far has treated it like the third rail. Living in the redneck area where I do, I still hear it sometimes, unfortunately.

The funny thing is, the term doesn't really make sense. I have played pool with plenty of black guys and never noticed that they had more of a propensity to play safe than white guys /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wally &lt;~~ couldn't resist touching the third rail.

MrLucky
04-07-2005, 03:01 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Not to mention the racist title given to those playing safe in "bar pool"... Disgusting.

Troy <hr /></blockquote>

Troy, this subject has been broached here occasionally but everybody so far has treated it like the third rail. Living in the redneck area where I do, I still hear it sometimes, unfortunately.

The funny thing is, the term doesn't really make sense. I have played pool with plenty of black guys and never noticed that they had more of a propensity to play safe than white guys /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<font color="red">Nope we just do it better! </font color>

Wally &lt;~~ couldn't resist touching the third rail. <hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SplinterHands
04-07-2005, 06:05 PM
Maybe if they had 8-ball on TV, the bar bangers could see how it's played properly. That might stop the whining.

Plummerbutt
04-07-2005, 09:19 PM
Certainly not trying to sound like I'm sticking up for the whiners, but how many of them have read the "official" rules of pool and actually know what a legal hit is? I played pool for many years (bar pool) before I read the official rules.., definetly opened up my eyes!

Wally_in_Cincy
04-08-2005, 05:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Plummerbutt:</font><hr> Certainly not trying to sound like I'm sticking up for the whiners, but how many of them have read the "official" rules of pool and actually know what a legal hit is? I played pool for many years (bar pool) before I read the official rules.., definetly opened up my eyes! <hr /></blockquote>

I never knew either until I joined the APA.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-08-2005, 05:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SplinterHands:</font><hr> Maybe if they had 8-ball on TV, the bar bangers could see how it's played properly. That might stop the whining. <hr /></blockquote>

Good point. I think a lot of folks understand 9-ball rules (BIH etc) from seeing it on tv.

Wally_in_Cincy
04-08-2005, 05:47 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr> <font color="red">we just do it better! </font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Ives
04-08-2005, 07:05 AM
I don't understand why some people think that playing defense in pool is considered bad form. Defense is just as important as offense. It's a game of strategy. The concept probably started with bangers who never play position, just try and sink a ball and hope the pool gods line them up for the next shot.

One
04-08-2005, 08:39 AM
Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.

I never do a safety straight pool break. The corner ball is easy to make if the 2 bottom balls are frozen.

I can also make the corner ball in the side if the cueball is below the rack.

pooltchr
04-08-2005, 09:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.

I never do a safety straight pool break. The corner ball is easy to make if the 2 bottom balls are frozen.

I can also make the corner ball in the side if the cueball is below the rack.
<hr /></blockquote>

OF COURSE!!!!!! How could the entire pool world have been so ignorant all these years to not pick up on this?????
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

SecaucusFats
04-08-2005, 09:54 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Ives:</font><hr> I don't understand why some people think that playing defense in pool is considered bad form. Defense is just as important as offense. It's a game of strategy. The concept probably started with bangers who never play position, just try and sink a ball and hope the pool gods line them up for the next shot. <hr /></blockquote>

If the whiners played for money they'd change their tune real quick. There is nothing like having a hard earned C-note, or more, riding on the outcome of a race against a better player to bring out their inner safety player. LOL

IMO a well played safety is a just as impressive as any other well executed shot. A well played kick or jump in return, is likewise a thing of beauty, even more so when it's an offensive kick.

BTW around here the bangers mostly refer to safety play as "Japanese" or "Jap" pool. Most of those nitwits have probably never played against a Japanese player. Of course, there are still quite a few of those idiots who use that other vulgar racist term.

MrLucky
04-08-2005, 09:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.

I never do a safety straight pool break. The corner ball is easy to make if the 2 bottom balls are frozen.

I can also make the corner ball in the side if the cueball is below the rack.
<hr /></blockquote> <font color="red"> I would love to play some straight with you Sir ! perhaps a $1 a ball? </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

sparky18
04-08-2005, 10:06 AM
honestly if somone really sucked at pool they shouldnt be able to saftey you consistently enough to be a real theat anyway

MrLucky
04-08-2005, 10:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.

I never do a safety straight pool break. The corner ball is easy to make if the 2 bottom balls are frozen.

I can also make the corner ball in the side if the cueball is below the rack.
<hr /></blockquote>

OF COURSE!!!!!! How could the entire pool world have been so ignorant all these years to not pick up on this?????
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
<hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<font color="red">Hey Steve! shhhhhhhhh!!!!!! Don't tell him that ! He's th "ONE"!, Besides I'm trying to make a couple of bucks here! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Perk
04-08-2005, 10:14 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>
OF COURSE!!!!!! How could the entire pool world have been so ignorant all these years to not pick up on this?????
/ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
<hr /></blockquote>

hahaha.....another funny quote this afternoon...

Thanks Steve! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Troy
04-08-2005, 10:33 AM
I'm not sure you could create a statement more wrong if you tried.
Please put me in line for a Straight Pool match with you at $1.00 per ball.
Better yet, let's play some One Pocket... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.

I never do a safety straight pool break. The corner ball is easy to make if the 2 bottom balls are frozen.

I can also make the corner ball in the side if the cueball is below the rack.
<hr /></blockquote>

Cane
04-08-2005, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.
<hr /></blockquote>

Quoting from a conversation with an 8 time (unless I've lost count) 8-Ball champion...

Q: What do you look for in a game?

Champ: Ball in hand?

Q: What do you look for after that?

Champ: Another ball in hand.

So, considering this statement from a considered master at 8-Ball, then I guess he just sucks and gets lucky alot, as does JJ, Gabe, Efren, Earl, Johnny, Corey, Rodney and a host of others. Damn, I think I'll go right out and jump on the UPA tour. Until your statement, I didn't realize how many players out there were so bad that they would ADMIT they sucked! Hey, I'll be a Hundred-Aire in no time!

Later,
Bob

Eric.
04-08-2005, 11:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> was the first time I played 8-ball with safeties and BIH and I realized how tactical this game really was.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

I hafta agree. 8 ball has alot of similar moves to One Pocket. Sometimes, the person who can "do more" with his safety move can gain an advantage. For example, playing safe by hiding the CB is OK. Playing safe by hiding the CB and knocking one or more of your problem balls out in the open is better. Playing safe and knocking one of your balls into the open while blocking the path of one of your opponents balls to the corner pocket would be a great move. IMO.


Eric &gt;just full of opinions

Troy
04-08-2005, 11:41 AM
But what do we know ???
He is the "ONE" !!!

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> was the first time I played 8-ball with safeties and BIH and I realized how tactical this game really was.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

I hafta agree. 8 ball has alot of similar moves to One Pocket. Sometimes, the person who can "do more" with his safety move can gain an advantage. For example, playing safe by hiding the CB is OK. Playing safe by hiding the CB and knocking one or more of your problem balls out in the open is better. Playing safe and knocking one of your balls into the open while blocking the path of one of your opponents balls to the corner pocket would be a great move. IMO.


Eric &gt;just full of opinions <hr /></blockquote>

Eric.
04-08-2005, 12:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> But what do we know ???
He is the "ONE" !!!

Troy
<hr /></blockquote>

OK, you lost me on this, Troy /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif


Eric

Wally_in_Cincy
04-08-2005, 12:25 PM
He's saying we should defer to the opininon of "One" as he is the repository all vast quantities of pool knowledge and plays millimeter position.

Fred Agnir
04-08-2005, 12:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SplinterHands:</font><hr> Maybe if they had 8-ball on TV, the bar bangers could see how it's played properly. That might stop the whining. <hr /></blockquote>I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, pros playing 8-ball ends up beings ridiculously easy as they don't play much safeties with their ability to run out from anywhere.

Maybe televised amateur events would be good.

Fred

Fred Agnir
04-08-2005, 12:27 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote littleCajun:</font><hr> I would like to understand why the avg. pool hall banger thinks that safty play = "dirty pool". <hr /></blockquote>Because they're the average banger. Once they join any organized competition, they'll see the beauty and necessity of safety play. But then, they'd transform into something other than the average pool hall/barroom banger.

Fred

Eric.
04-08-2005, 01:18 PM
LOL! OK, fair enough. I wasn't sure if maybe he was insinuating that I was "One" or somehow on that same Astrial level.


Eric &gt;not worthy

Troy
04-08-2005, 02:36 PM
Yup.
I think Patrick has surfaced... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> He's saying we should defer to the opininon of "One" as he is the repository all vast quantities of pool knowledge and plays millimeter position. <hr /></blockquote>

Barbara
04-08-2005, 03:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Yup.
I think Patrick has surfaced... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Troy <hr /></blockquote>

I think he prefers "orbiting".

Barbara~~~lol...

MrLucky
04-08-2005, 03:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Eric.:</font><hr> LOL! OK, fair enough. I wasn't sure if maybe he was insinuating that I was "One" or somehow on that same Astrial level.


Eric &gt;not worthy <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="red"> Actually 1 musta went for a #2 he is now zero! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

One
04-08-2005, 04:05 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cane:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.
<hr /></blockquote>

Quoting from a conversation with an 8 time (unless I've lost count) 8-Ball champion...

Q: What do you look for in a game?

Champ: Ball in hand?

Q: What do you look for after that?

Champ: Another ball in hand.

So, considering this statement from a considered master at 8-Ball, then I guess he just sucks and gets lucky alot, as does JJ, Gabe, Efren, Earl, Johnny, Corey, Rodney and a host of others. Damn, I think I'll go right out and jump on the UPA tour. Until your statement, I didn't realize how many players out there were so bad that they would ADMIT they sucked! Hey, I'll be a Hundred-Aire in no time!

Later,
Bob <hr /></blockquote>
The guy who said that is stupid, he wants ball in hand? Play against a monkey!

I have tried a few safeties when I was sick and couldn't focus hard enough to make balls. Here is video:

ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/clips/Concentrator-8.successful.safeties.(2005.03.10).avi

As you can see in the shots in the video, safety is very easy and stupid because if I was the opponent I would get out from the safeties. So I control the cueball and object ball to positions where a re-safety is difficult.

But when I am not sick and can focus hard enough I go for EVERYTHING, if it is possible to make, I go for it.

kyle
04-08-2005, 04:44 PM
I think everyone is talking about pool on a REAL table, not playing against pac-man.

MrLucky
04-08-2005, 07:12 PM
My offer still stands!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Straight Pool $1 a ball shoot a 100 points! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif you can video it too! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

pooltchr
04-08-2005, 07:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>

But when I am not sick and can focus hard enough I go for EVERYTHING, if it is possible to make, I go for it.
<hr /></blockquote>

Not being of the higher intelligence, I'm becoming confused. I thought you said you always tried to play the most difficult shot possible because just going for the shot/win was too easy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve

MrLucky
04-08-2005, 07:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>

But when I am not sick and can focus hard enough I go for EVERYTHING, if it is possible to make, I go for it.
<hr /></blockquote>

Not being of the higher intelligence, I'm becoming confused. I thought you said you always tried to play the most difficult shot possible because just going for the shot/win was too easy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="red">Steve my man! if you THINK you are confused now go to his Home page and take a look ! This guy is not acting like one he is a real nut job !</font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Troy
04-08-2005, 07:50 PM
I suggest NOT holding your breath waiting for a reply much less acceptance of your offer.
My bet is that ONE can't shoot a lick.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr> My offer still stands!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Straight Pool $1 a ball shoot a 100 points! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif you can video it too! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>

One
04-08-2005, 08:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> I suggest NOT holding your breath waiting for a reply much less acceptance of your offer.
My bet is that ONE can't shoot a lick.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr> My offer still stands!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Straight Pool $1 a ball shoot a 100 points! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif you can video it too! /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>
Why would I care? The only thing I am interested in is improving my game. You are only interested in making money?

One
04-08-2005, 08:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>

But when I am not sick and can focus hard enough I go for EVERYTHING, if it is possible to make, I go for it.
<hr /></blockquote>

Not being of the higher intelligence, I'm becoming confused. I thought you said you always tried to play the most difficult shot possible because just going for the shot/win was too easy. /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve <hr /></blockquote>
Yes, I choose the more difficult shot for me. If I don't know exactly what will happen when I use certain spin, I need to practice it so that is my first choice. This way I don't get any "fragments" in my knowledge. See Defragmenting your aim (http://poollogics.port5.com/articles/one/defragmentingyouraim.htm) article.

After I did that for a couple years there is no normal shot I can't do now. I have started doing some jump warp shots now, I can do the normal warp shot for optimal position, like this shot: ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/month/(Online).Concentrator-circular.follow%2Bwarp.shot.(2005.03.06).avi

Now I make the cueball jump in the air after it hits the object ball, and I add draw instead of shoot soft with sidespin, after a few minutes I started improving fast. This is like a small jump shot, eventually I will be able to make higher jumps with the same accuracy.

It is important that you don't try too difficult shots right away. Instead do it as I do, first start with the basics, and when you can play optimal position play 12 cm from the next ball, start doing more difficult shots. In my case I was doing 5 rail position, and after a while I was able to get the 12 cm position consistently. Then I started focusing on position play from massť shots like these shots:
ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/bestshots/Concentrator-draw.masse.position.(2005.03.26).avi

ftp://poollogics.is-a-geek.net:22163/bestshots/Concentrator-draw.masse.position.(2005.03.22).avi

Nothing special with this so that's why I want to improve more by doing more difficult shots that are crazy.

I always wanted to play "jump position" where the cueball flies in the air and stops with draw in front of the next ball. As little contact with the table as possible. I will post videos when I reach that level.

1Time
04-09-2005, 02:43 AM
The concept of a safety equating to "dirty pool" originates from ignorace of the rules. It's this ignorance and the need for rules when playing pool that spawns pseudo-rules like "dirty pool". You know ignorance of the rules is wide spread when your employer hosts a pool tourney year after year with the same written rules that include a rule called "honest effort" and manages to exclude the words "foul" and "ball-in-hand".

MrLucky
04-09-2005, 05:06 AM
Well what better way to see how improved your game really is ! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif and yeah I would love to have some of <font color="green"> your money! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One
04-09-2005, 07:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MrLucky:</font><hr> Well what better way to see how improved your game really is ! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif and yeah I would love to have some of <font color="green"> your money! </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif <hr /></blockquote>
Winning is not improving your skill. If I improve on difficult shots that are not needed for winning, I will not win more.

LJC_Cues
04-10-2005, 04:37 AM
I was at a local bar here in va for wing night and they have a couple 7ft. So I put my name on the waiting list. I get called up first shot I took was a saftey the guy proceeds to tell me I dont know how to play pool and whinnnig worse than 2yr old. I looked at him and said politly is it my fault or yours you dont know how to kick or jump a ball?? I hate playing in bars like that I really only prefer to play at a good pool hall! Then I dont have to deal with them people! And thier stupid ass rules!! Anyone heard that if you scratch on the break you loose?? Stupid Bar Rules!!

MrLucky
04-10-2005, 05:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> He's saying we should defer to the opininon of "One" as he is the repository all vast quantities of pool knowledge and plays millimeter position. <hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif <font color="red"> Then if this is the message shoudn't his name be "NONE" ???? </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

poolturtle
04-10-2005, 10:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
One:

Winning is not improving your skill.<hr /></blockquote>

That is probably the closest thing to a true statement I have ever seen you post! I'm so proud....well, sort of.

While it is true that winning alone doesn't improve skill, (I've lucked my way out of several games in my time, as well as "won" games without ever picking up a cue, because he dropped the 8 ball early or whatever) winning is the natural result of improved skill.

Most of us on this board play billiard games where the general object of the game is to be the first to legally sink the game ball. So you'll have to forgive us all if our advice and experience fall under this strange category.

Judging from your posts on this and other threads, it appears that you have a COMPLETELY different set of rules to the games you play on a billiard table. This is all well and good, except none of the rest of us seem to be privy to these rules. Maybe if you would explain the rules to the games you play, we could all have a decent discussion about the same game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One
04-10-2005, 02:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolturtle:</font><hr> Judging from your posts on this and other threads, it appears that you have a COMPLETELY different set of rules to the games you play on a billiard table. This is all well and good, except none of the rest of us seem to be privy to these rules. Maybe if you would explain the rules to the games you play, we could all have a decent discussion about the same game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote>

I don't play with any rules, following the rules is not needed to improve your skill!

This is how I practice in real pool:
I spread out balls on the table, either 9 balls or 15, then I run them in rotation the hard way. I choose the shots I am the least comfortable with. In real pool I don't play against opponents because table time is expensive and it sucks to sit in the chair waiting for your turn. More than 99.9% of the time I focus on my stance and stroke and try to improve it.

This is how I play Virtual Pool 3:
I play online in Gamespy against opponents, I play the same way as in real pool where I try for optimal position play (12 cm from ball) with as many rails as possible. When I succeed with it I win the game. If not, I have to wait a long time, sometimes 10-30 minutes depending on how many people are in the room (winner stays). Often the opponents are bad so I get many chances per game.

When I play the hard way I improve much faster than if I would play to win. Read How to practice and improve (http://poollogics.port5.com/articles/mri/howtopractice.htm) article.


The physical and mental part of pool requires different practice tools in order to become as good as possible.
The mental part of pool can be practiced by meditating and visualizing. I used to visualize many hours per day when I was a beginner, that's why I improved so fast. In 3 months I improved from 1 rack run in 9-ball to 4 racks. I still haven't made more than 4 racks in a row after 6 years, even though I am much better, but that is because I am not trying to run racks by playing the easy way. If you can run unlimited racks, you are making it too easy, and that's why you can't improve any further. Right now it is rare if I run 2 racks in a row!

The other way to practice the mental part of the game is with a pool simulator like Virtual Pool 3 which is currently the best. I was able to run 18 racks in a row when I was a beginner (I used very easy position play). But now I haven't made over 6 racks in 2 years. If you want to improve your cueball control, a pool simulator is the best way to do so! But most if not all of the players who play online play long soft rolls and take advantage of the perfecly level table, I call this "Raping the table". There are a few who play close to the position play needed in real pool, but it is still a big difference between me and them. Comparing to chess ratings I would say I have 4000 ELO rating and the 2nd best there has 1700 ELO, but they win more games because they "Rape the table".

poolturtle
04-10-2005, 03:52 PM
Interesting routine. I used to do the same thing when I was first starting out. (the part about the (real pool) I did that because I wanted to improve my shot making skills. It served me well for a while, then it got slightly boring. I realized there are only a few main "shots", (cut shots, 1 rail banks, reverse banks, running the ball down the rail, etc.) and everything on a table is basically a variation of these main "shots".

I then started working on more precise cue ball control. That study is a lifelong one. There are infinite possibilities of potential cue ball placement.

That's where the creativity comes in and the skill. Anybody can bang the cue ball around the table and make hard shots. That doesn't take much skill. If I want to practice that way, I can just aim for the object ball, and slam the cue ball into it and see where it goes.

But cue ball control takes just that....control...

Of course, how you choose to practice is up to you. I'm not downing it. The thing is, you come on here and insult everybody and everything that isn't your special way. I'm sure you're just some bored kid at home who has nothing better to do than to try to get everyone on this board mad at you. So, I won't indulge you past the point of acknowledging it.

But, for the record, if you ever did get the chance to play Mr. Lucky in a game of pool, my money's on him! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif And I've never seen him play.

dmgwalsh
04-10-2005, 04:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.

I never do a safety straight pool break. The corner ball is easy to make if the 2 bottom balls are frozen.

I can also make the corner ball in the side if the cueball is below the rack.
<hr /></blockquote>

So I guess Dallas West, Mike Sigel, Jim Rempe, Steve Mizerak and countless others just weren't good enough to play your shot.

One
04-10-2005, 05:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote dmgwalsh:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> Doing a safety is like admitting that you suck at pool.

I never do a safety straight pool break. The corner ball is easy to make if the 2 bottom balls are frozen.

I can also make the corner ball in the side if the cueball is below the rack.
<hr /></blockquote>

So I guess Dallas West, Mike Sigel, Jim Rempe, Steve Mizerak and countless others just weren't good enough to play your shot.

<hr /></blockquote>
I didn't say that, but you are right.

Their chances of winning gets greater when they make a safety instead, this doesn't mean they can't make those shots. I have played against a semi-pro that did it often (that's from where I learned to do it myself).

One
04-10-2005, 05:25 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolturtle:</font><hr> I then started working on more precise cue ball control. That study is a lifelong one. There are infinite possibilities of potential cue ball placement. <hr /></blockquote>
Yes, that is what EVERYONE should do!

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolturtle:</font><hr>
The thing is, you come on here and insult everybody and everything that isn't your special way. I'm sure you're just some bored kid at home who has nothing better to do than to try to get everyone on this board mad at you. So, I won't indulge you past the point of acknowledging it.<hr /></blockquote>
"The only thing that is rude is not telling the truth" - One

I came here to teach you humans. I get right to the point instead of waste time being nice.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolturtle:</font><hr>
But, for the record, if you ever did get the chance to play Mr. Lucky in a game of pool, my money's on him! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif And I've never seen him play. <hr /></blockquote>
I would bet my money on Mr. Lucky too, because I don't play to win. But I won't do it since gambling is evil and stupid, and a waste of time because it will always end up even.

highsea
04-10-2005, 05:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr>...If you want to improve your cueball control, a pool simulator is the best way to do so!<hr /></blockquote>So tell us Mr. Pool Guru, for someone who wants to improve their cueball control, do you recommend an optical or mechanical mouse? It seems like the optical mouse would be more accurate- will this reduce the chance of a miscue? I notice you don't talk much about equipment, but which do you prefer, Mac or PC? How fast of a processor will I need to really step up my game? I have a 366 right now, and I think it might be holding me back. What about display size? Is 19" okay?

Aw, hell, never mind, I'll just go back to the pool hall and do it the old fashioned way.

-CM&lt;---has no time for video games

MrLucky
04-10-2005, 05:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote One:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolturtle:</font><hr> Judging from your posts on this and other threads, it appears that you have a COMPLETELY different set of rules to the games you play on a billiard table. This is all well and good, except none of the rest of us seem to be privy to these rules. Maybe if you would explain the rules to the games you play, we could all have a decent discussion about the same game. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
<hr /></blockquote>

I don't play with any rules, following the rules is not needed to improve your skill!

...."This is how I practice in real pool:
I spread out balls on the table, either 9 balls or 15, then I run them in rotation the hard way. I choose the shots I am the least comfortable with. In real pool I don't play against opponents because table time is expensive and it sucks to sit in the chair waiting for your turn.".....

<font color="red">Most people who play pool that are good sit very little in the chair ! its usually the ONE that is losing sitting! </font color>
More than 99.9% of the time I focus on my stance and stroke and try to improve it.

If you can run unlimited racks, you are making it too easy, and that's why you can't improve any further. Right now it is rare if I run 2 racks in a row!

<font color="red"> /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif LOL! thats a new aproach! </font color>



<hr /></blockquote> /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif