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justbrake
04-08-2005, 02:20 PM
I seen Steve Tipton or is it Tifton I'm not sure anyways I've seen him do this in a couple of matches where he goes and looks to see if a ball is frozen to the rail or not , now to me I would say there is no reason to look at this in these 2 times the players were far away with the cue and they were going to play safe so why does he go and look to see if the object ball is frozed or , they can't fawl so why?

bsmutz
04-08-2005, 02:25 PM
Say you are shooting at the one ball and you call a safety. If the one ball is frozen to the rail, then the cue ball must hit the same or different rail after contact or the one ball must hit a different rail than the one it is frozen to. If the one ball is not frozen to the rail, say a 1/16" gap between ball and rail, then you could just roll the cue ball up and have it nudge the one ball into the rail, leaving the cue ball and one ball in a line perpendicular to the rail for a good safety. It would satisfy the requirement of having a ball hit the rail after contact.

justbrake
04-08-2005, 02:33 PM
gotit

Scott Lee
04-08-2005, 02:56 PM
justbrake...Don't forget that whether there is a ref or not, the OPPONENT is responsible to identify whether the shooter's target ball is frozen or not. If you don't identify an OB as frozen before your opponent shoots, you cannot say it was frozen later. Any disagreements in league and tournament play generally go to the shooter.

Even though Steve Tipton was looking at the balls, he would NOT say whether it was frozen or not, unless asked. It is up to the players. The ref is there to observe, and make decisions only when necessary. It is not his responsibility to say anything about any shot.

Scott Lee

bsmutz
04-08-2005, 03:16 PM
Scott, Wouldn't it be his (the ref) responsibility to call the foul in the scenario I outlined above, where a ball is frozen to the cushion and no ball was caused to hit another cushion after contact?

Popcorn
04-08-2005, 03:29 PM
I think the ref is there to keep an eye on things but not make suggestions as to what to do or get involved. My wife was playing in a pretty big tournament and the girl she was playing was about to shoot a shot that could have easily been a push. The ref went over and instead of just standing there and watching the shot. He pointed out that she may foul the cue ball with a push and to be careful with how she shoots the shot. She decided to shoot another shot. What the F, if she fouls so what, what business is it of the refs as to how she plays the shot, just stand there and make the call.

Scott Lee
04-08-2005, 04:14 PM
Bill...Popcorn is right. The ref is there to observe, and make a call to settle a dispute if necessary. What the ref did in Popcorn's example is way out of line. But many refs are not very well trained in these situations, and are sometimes forced to make calls 'from the hip', resulting in errors.

As far as Steve Tipton's responsibility to make a bad hit call...I think it's only in the tv matches. Since, after a foul, he usually picks up the CB, and hands it to the incoming player, I would guess he WOULD make the foul call, but he doesn't have to. The players are responsible to themselves in each match. Most of the matches, he is wandering around the arena, and only occasionally called over for a shot. Usually the players call the fouls, either on themselves, or on their opponent.

Scott ~ so the answer is...MAYBE! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

MrLucky
04-08-2005, 07:21 PM
In a big money TV type tourny the ref is responsible! similar to the uproar over Earl recently not calling a ball foul on hiself ! if the ref did not see / call it it did not occur! In league pool the rule is that the player or coach may call a ball frozen or a foul or have a ref watch for a foul in the case one is possible or potential! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif