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mickeymouse
04-09-2005, 08:10 AM
I've heard of shaping the curve of the tip same as that of a dime. I've played with house sticks like this and it seemed to improve draw. Are there any negative aspects to this shape that I should be aware at before I reshape my own cue stick?

I went way back in the Archives until my eyes hurt but couldn't find a post but I'm sure it's been addressed if I went back far enough.

A "duffer"

Billy_Bob
04-09-2005, 10:05 AM
I have experimented with different tip shapes (quarter, nickel, and dime) and it seems to me that a dime shape works better for draw. Look at the following high speed video draw shot with a nickel shaped tip...

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-38.htm

It seems to me that a bit more curve on the tip (dime) might allow a bit more contact with the cue ball. Notice toward the end of the shot, the edge of the tip curve is hitting the ball. Anyway it should be clear from the video that a flat tip would not be much good for a draw shot.

Also in my experimenting, it seemed to me that a soft tip worked better for draw than a hard tip. I would guess that the soft tip would "deform" and "hug" the ball, thus getting more tip to ball contact.

And pig skin (Moori) tips worked better than leather tips. Pig skin tips look like low pile carpeting close up whereas leather tips look like shag carpeting close up. So I suppose the pig skin tips have more contact with the cue ball.

Of course all my experimenting is just *me* trying out different tips. So not very scientific. You would need a robot pool cue to stroke exactly the same each time to conduct these tests properly. So far as I know, no one has done this.

So what tip to use? Well soft tips are no good because if you whack them hard just once, the cue ball will leave an indentation in the tip. You would need to constantly be reshaping these tips to keep them a dime shape. And they will compress with use, so will eventually become a medium or hard tip.

And with a dime shape on a medium tip, you need to frequently reshape it to maintain the dime shape. Thus these tips will not last very long if you want to keep them dime shaped.

And my thinking is that with a dime shape working better for draw, english, etc., and a flat tip not working as good... For consistent shooting, it is a good idea to *always* play with a tip with the same exact shape. If you don't keep the same tip shape, it will become nickel or quarter shaped, then you replace the tip and give it a dime shape, it will play differently.

So I play with a dime shaped pig skin hard tip (Moori III Q) and always keep it a dime shape. I seem to be more able to draw the cue ball back a specific distance (like 1 diamond, 2 diamonds, or half a table) than other players. Of course I have also practiced a lot along with having a consistent tip.

If you want to experiment with different tip shapes, you can use electrical PVC cut in half and about 8 inches long. Then use 220 grit sandpaper held inside the curve with your thumb. Then sand the tip back and forth while slowly rotating the cue. Following are various sizes of PVC and U.S. coins...

PVC inside curve sizes...
Dime (1/2")
Nickel (3/4")
Quarter (1")
Half dollar (1 1/4")
Billiard ball (2")

Coin sizes...
Dime .... 18.00mm
Penny ... 19.10mm
Nickel ... 21.10mm
Quarter .. 24.10mm
Half Dollar .. 30.50mm

1Time
04-09-2005, 11:13 AM
A nickel shaped tip works better than a dime shaped tip for playing pool. And for me a tip shaped with slightly less of a curve than a nickel works best of all.

Troy
04-09-2005, 11:22 AM
Radius and hardness is mostly a matter of personal preference.
A dime radius requires more accuracy in striking the cue ball compared to a nickel radius.
The stroke is the most important thing in obtaining draw, follow, side, etc...
Most players prefer a hard, flatter tip for breaking compared to their "shooting" cue.

Troy

Scott Lee
04-09-2005, 05:32 PM
Thank you Troy! Geez, every time somebody starts posting about 'this tip draws better' or some other such nonsense, I just have to laugh. There is NO difference in tips, tip hardness, or curvature, in terms of being able to draw the cueball...NONE! As you so adroitly pointed out, it's ALL in the quality of the stroke!

Scott Lee

Troy
04-09-2005, 06:09 PM
I take your response as a compliment Scott... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Thank you... /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Thank you Troy! Geez, every time somebody starts posting about 'this tip draws better' or some other such nonsense, I just have to laugh. There is NO difference in tips, tip hardness, or curvature, in terms of being able to draw the cueball...NONE! As you so adroitly pointed out, it's ALL in the quality of the stroke!

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Cane
04-10-2005, 08:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Radius and hardness is mostly a matter of personal preference.
A dime radius requires more accuracy in striking the cue ball compared to a nickel radius.
The stroke is the most important thing in obtaining draw, follow, side, etc...
<hr /></blockquote>

Troy is absolutely right, however, I want to add something. When I put a new tip on my cues, I initially shape them about the radius of a quarter. I find that as I play, my tip shapes itself to the shape it needs to be for my style of play (which is about a quarter radius and why I start them there to begin with). In other words, let your style of play dictate how your tip should be shaped. If you play little spin, it will be fairly flat like mine, if you play a LOT of extreme spin, it will have a pretty severe radius. It's leather and it compresses, and it will shape itself to a certain extent.

Later,
Bob

Billy_Bob
04-10-2005, 10:55 AM
Hummm... I just tried several draw shots with a phenolic tip and couldn't get as much draw as I can with a leather or pig skin tip. I wonder why that is?

I notice that leather tips will "squish" in a bit when they hit the cue ball as shown in the following high speed video...
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/new/HSVA-35.htm

Scott Lee
04-10-2005, 01:41 PM
Troy...It absolutely IS a compliment! Now if we can just clone an army of about a million of us, we might finally put this nonsense about 'this' tip or 'that' tip, to rest!
I just read about the new Kumui layered tip from Japan... the most expensive tip out there, @ $60 each! I was given one recently, and it plays wonderfully...but for $60????
I can draw the ball just as well with a $.50 LePro! LOL
I still like my Talisman tips too!

Scott