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Ken
02-21-2002, 09:27 AM
The Patriot Cup used one of Diamond's coin operated tables. I spoke to Greg Sullivan about these tables and he said they are making both the 9 and 7 foot tables that can distinguish between ordinary cue balls and the object balls allowing standard sets of balls to be used. These tables will allow the bar players to play a game that is just like on the 9 footers. His intention is to make the the two tables play the same and possibly get more players interested in supporting the professional events. If anyone is interested in how the table distinguishes between the balls here is a link to the patent:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=/netahtml/search-bool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=ft00&s1=optical&s 2=billiard&OS=optical+AND+billiard&RS=optical+AND+ billiard

The table worked flawlessly at the tournament with a red circle ball and the players adapted to it quickly. I think some of them have played in bars.
Ken

TomBrooklyn
02-21-2002, 02:56 PM
That is super news. If bars were able to provide tables that used a "normal" pool ball, I would expect to see an immediate improvement in the level of bar play, and a wider interest in the game.

Also, I believe the new found ability to properly control the cue ball would lead to an increase in the interest of bar players to furthur develop their game. This might translate to spending more time in the bars; but I anticipate it would also motivate many players to spend some or more time in real pool halls.

cheesemouse
02-21-2002, 04:02 PM
Ken,
There is a gentleman pool promoter in my area named John Steich(sp)and he will be setting up for our BCA event at the end of this month. He told me that he switched to the Diamond 7foot coin-op's and we will be playing on them at this event. They are also covered with Mercury Ultra. I can hardly wait...I do have a question for you. Are the slates and pockets cut to be very excepting of the ball, say, like a Valley slopbox???

Ken
02-21-2002, 05:24 PM
They are absolutely NOT cut like the Valleys. Greg is quite adamant that his intent is to put out a 7 foot table that plays the same as the 9 foot such as the tables at Derby City. That's not to say that they will necessarily have the pro size 4 9/16 pocket openings but the angle of the cut and the depth of the slate will be designed to play just like the commercial 9 footers. His intent is to make the transition to 9 feet to be seamless except for the length of some shots. Cushions and cloth will probably be the same unless there is a good reason to make a change. He seems determined to get the bar table players to play the same game as the pro players. One of the things he was doing in Tampa was testing the Granito cloth. He will not be using it (unless you insist on it, of course).
Ken

PoolFool
02-21-2002, 05:25 PM
Tom: Interesting comment. However, I play at a bar for a different reason. At pool halls people come in and play with thier friends on a table for $9.00 per hour. I can't walk up and start playing one of them. In a bar the coin-opps are up for challenge and you get to play a wide variety of players and if you win you play for free. I would love to find a pool hall that had a table set aside for all challengers. Just pay a $1.00 and keep it as long as you win. I know this sounds crazy but the only thing I don't like about bars are the drunks. They get in the way of a good pool game. I see no difference in my game going from a 7 to an 8ft. After a couple of racks I do just as well on either one. I just like the bar package.

PoolFool

02-21-2002, 05:55 PM
All I have to say is I hope these Diamonds become the norm and the valley's become conversation pieces.

02-21-2002, 06:08 PM
>All I have to say is I hope these Diamonds become the norm and the valley's become conversation pieces.

I agree with you on wanting better bar tables, but it will take a long time before bars or the supplier of their tables are willing to buy all new tables for the sake of pool players. Bars are in the business of selling drinks, it just so happens that drunk people like to play pool and couldn't care less if they are playing on a good table or a piece of junk. The only people who it concerns are the league players, and the once or twice a week that leagues are in the bar it is not worth it to the bottom line to shell out a couple grand for a new table.

Just my $.02

Stauber
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02-21-2002, 06:16 PM
Hi Stauber, I know that is reality, but I can dream. I just don't care for Valley's, and until recently there was no other option. Around here in the BB tourney's they generally will use red circles (two a table, and open the tables to retrieve whitey if necessary) which is nice but it still isn't the same game as the 9 footers.

cheesemouse
02-21-2002, 07:35 PM
Ken,
Thanks for the information. Nobody around here has played on them or for that matter even heard of them. If they play like shrunk down 9footers I will be ecstatic. I'm so sick of lesser grade players getting away with poorly struck shots, that still fall on the Valleys, I can hardly express it in words......it will be a pleasure to see these same players swelling up those poorly struck shots and wondering why. The sight of this will transport me to cloud nine. Now they can be miserable instead of me. Oh goddie goodie!!!!!!!!

02-23-2002, 12:39 AM
I hope you don't mind me intruding on your thread but I have to believe your assuming the tables in bars are there for the players.
They are there to generate revenue. That means as many of those silver colored copper coins as possible. The faster balls go in the hole the faster some drunk (Valued customer) plops down 4 more coins. The bar owners don't want to compete with the pool halls, they want to say, "Great shot, I would never have thought to seven rail that shot, You want another beer. . . that'll be three bucks, thank you."

Valley is a bar owners dream come true.

Cami (New to this board)

cheesemouse
02-23-2002, 11:16 AM
Cami,
Welcome aboard.

Having been in the bar business in a past life I can tell you that one of the axioms of success is repeat business. Even drunks can tell the difference between good&bad apparatus.

02-23-2002, 01:06 PM
Do they plan to sell these tables, or just rent them? I've seen ads that say they only will rent them. Why would they want to do that? Why wouldn't they want to sell them?

Thunderbolt

02-23-2002, 05:49 PM
The good news is that the Diamond Bar box will someday revolutionize the coin-op business, the bad news is that it ain't gonna happen anytime soon. Seems that after designing and manufacturing the greatest bar box EVER, Diamond decided that they wanted to become business partners with every operator and bar owner that has a coin-op pool table in service. The reason that you don't see more of them in the field is that there are VERY FEW vendors or bar owners that are willing to pay $50.00 a week to lease a pool table. It is truly unfortunate that Diamond has either, the least understanding of the vending business, and/or, the largest amount of greed, so that it prevents these fine tables from being available to the playing public. Contrary to the somewhat misguided belief that the vendor's actually give a damn about the quality of the playing experience, the bottom line to coin-op's is COIN. When a vendor or a bar owner purchases a Valley bar box, they can recoup the entire cost of the table in less than two years. After that, it's pure profit (less maintanence) for 6 to 10 years. Over a 10 year cycle, it would cost $26,000.00 for the PRIVILEDGE of providing (Diamond tables) a great playing experience to a bunch of poolplayers that are going to play on WHATEVER is in the room ANYWAYS. Think about what your reaction would be to a proposition like this. So needless to say, Diamonds new THREE $$$ WAY $$$ SPLIT, is being met with underwhelming enthusiasm, and will continue to catagorized with the holy grail.

02-23-2002, 07:13 PM
I had the opportunity to play on the Diamond coin-op table that Ken was talking about.I played for a couple of hours and the table plays GREAT,but I cringe at having to feed five $1 coins at a time in order to play for 30 minutes.Fortunately,the coin slot was not being used and you may play on the Diamond table for $5 hour per person.Noone else wanted to join me... go figure (League players get Free pool until 6:00 p.m. on the Simonis covered Robertson tables).. Doug

SPetty
02-25-2002, 01:44 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: cheesemouse:</font><hr>Having been in the bar business in a past life I can tell you that one of the axioms of success is repeat business. Even drunks can tell the difference between good&amp;bad apparatus. <hr></blockquote>

Having been in the bar business in a past life, you must surely realize that the drunks are not repeatedly entering the bar to shoot serious pool on well maintained equipment. I know I'm going out on a limb here, but the drunks are actually repeatedly entering the bar to drink.

cheesemouse
02-25-2002, 02:21 PM
Spetty,
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I know I'm going out on a limb here, but the drunks are actually repeatedly entering the bar to drink.<hr></blockquote>

Your right, that's the thickest limb on the tree. Your so correct about the drunks but in this day and age of DWI's seriously turning your life upside down most people are pretty careful about getting knee walking drunk ergo a sizeable portion of your bar business are people who remain cognizant of their surroundings and word of mouth is the best fertizier a bar can get. If you have the best equiptment around slowly but surely the word gets out. So the long and the short of it is: take care of the small things and soon they add up to a successful bar, poolhall, restaurant or any service business. Sorry about the seminar.

02-27-2002, 12:27 AM
This is the first time I've ever given a reply on any chat room. Infact, its only my 3rd time I've ever logged on any chat room anywhere. But here goes. I really enjoyed reading your comments. There seems to be an awful lot I can learn here. I am realitively new to the bar table industry and definitely don't have all the answers yet, especially how to properly market the new smart table. But be assured, I will learn given time. I am even talking with Valley to seek their help in improving the quality of play in the amature market. In my opinion, any sport needs a strong amature basis to become successful. I'm trying to "Bridge the Gap" between the ams and pros. Don't give up on Diamond. I know most people think its all about money, and admittedly they have a point, but I feel that if I do business right and try to improve all aspects of the game, then I will be rewarded in many ways, including moniterialy . So things are not all bad!

02-28-2002, 07:05 PM
Not wanting to impose; however, I wanted to break the good news. DIAMOND SMART TABLES ARE FOR SALE!!!!! Anyone and everyone can not get the best playing coin-operated table in the world.