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Sid_Vicious
04-11-2005, 02:51 PM
I know this will maybe sound a little anal, but is there any advantage in whether you rack a solid or a strip on the very front of the rack? As scientific as some get here, it seemed logical that one could be better, and possibly even a particular color(numbered) ball. Does the human aiming mechanism like and dislike any particular situation, even to a slight degree???sid

highsea
04-11-2005, 05:50 PM
I don't care if the headball is a solid or stripe, but I rack the one ball as the headball out of habit.

What I do care about is that the balls alternate down the side, and the corner balls are one of each. So the second row has one solid and one stripe, and they alternate down the sides of the rack. In the back row there are two stripes side by side, on the opposite side of the rack that the two solids are side by side at the top of the rack.

Sounds confusing, I know. I'd WEI it, but my flash is broke. It goes something like this: first row, 1ball; second row, stripe-solid; third row, solid-8ball-stripe, fourth row, stripe-solid-stripe-solid; fifth row, solid-stripe-stripe-solid-stripe. I think this gives the best odds for a neutral break.

I have a slight preference for shooting solids, but I don't let it mess with my game.

Barbara
04-11-2005, 06:05 PM
Okay, I hope I can convey the racking Q well and how it should be done by BCA reqs.

When you're the racker and you're looking down at the rack, I start with the head ball work towards my right and feel free to reverse the patterns exactly. For the perimeter it is as follows: solid, solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (turning the corner), stripe, solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (next corner), solid, stripe solid. Fill the middle as you will with the 8-ball in the middle.

The main effect is to have two of the same patterned balls in the front "Vee" and the same other patterned balls on the back leg of the rack. This is in compliance with the BCA reqs of having a different patterned ball in each corner, and having each pattern spaced well.

Barbara

Stretch
04-11-2005, 06:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> I don't care if the headball is a solid or stripe, but I rack the one ball as the headball out of habit.

What I do care about is that the balls alternate down the side, and the corner balls are one of each. So the second row has one solid and one stripe, and they alternate down the sides of the rack. In the back row there are two stripes side by side, on the opposite side of the rack that the two solids are side by side at the top of the rack.

Sounds confusing, I know. I'd WEI it, but my flash is broke. It goes something like this: first row, 1ball; second row, stripe-solid; third row, solid-8ball-stripe, fourth row, stripe-solid-stripe-solid; fifth row, solid-stripe-stripe-solid-stripe. I think this gives the best odds for a neutral break.

I have a slight preference for shooting solids, but I don't let it mess with my game. <hr /></blockquote>

I rack much like yourself Highsea, only i will give the 6 ball to the breaker at the head of the rack. I believe it blends with the cloth better than any other ball so it gives the breaker a slightly harder time for a nose hit. I do have a prefference for high balls, but i play enough 9 ball that solids are fine too if they are the obvious best choice. St.

SecaucusFats
04-11-2005, 06:18 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> I know this will maybe sound a little anal, but is there any advantage in whether you rack a solid or a strip on the very front of the rack? As scientific as some get here, it seemed logical that one could be better, and possibly even a particular color(numbered) ball. Does the human aiming mechanism like and dislike any particular situation, even to a slight degree???sid <hr /></blockquote>

This is how I rack for 8 Ball, 1 ball at apex, (H=high/stripes L=Low/solids)

1
H L
L 8 H
H L H L
L H H L H

highsea
04-11-2005, 06:45 PM
This is how I rack them. Is this legal Barbara?

http://www.freepoollessons.com/lessons/lessons1/L1images/img_P1010085.JPG

Stretch- that's a good idea with the 6 ball- I will start doing that. Lol every little bit helps, especially when you play like me!

Barbara
04-11-2005, 06:59 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> This is how I rack them. Is this legal Barbara?

http://www.freepoollessons.com/lessons/lessons1/L1images/img_P1010085.JPG

Stretch- that's a good idea with the 6 ball- I will start doing that. Lol every little bit helps, especially when you play like me! <hr /></blockquote>

Casey,

If the 1-ball is the head ball, you're legal for BCA rules because you have one stripe and one solid in each corner. That is a rule for 8-ball.

The only reason why I explained the way I rack an 9-ball rack is because technically, it's the best way to rack and not have any pattern clusters from a break. "Delaware Donna Tidwell" taught me that. She should know, she kicked Karen Corr onto the wrong side of the chart in the first round of the NY State Women's 9-Ball Championships one time.

I just saw her at Valley Forge and you know I have to keep reminding her why she should be playing still.

Barbara~~~thinks Donna lurks a bit...

SPetty
04-12-2005, 10:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Okay, I hope I can convey the racking Q well and how it should be done by BCA reqs.

This is in compliance with the BCA reqs of having a different patterned ball in each corner, and having each pattern spaced well.<hr /></blockquote>I'm not sure what you mean by "BCA reqs". Is that BCA rules? We're talking 8-ball, right? Here are the rules quoted from the BCA rules:

4.3 RACKING THE BALLS
The balls are racked in a triangle at the foot of the table with the 8-ball in the center of the triangle, the first ball of the rack on the foot spot, a stripe ball in one corner of the rack and a solid ball in the other corner.

I don't think there's anything about "having each pattern spaced well" mentioned.

I overheard my opponent talking about the rack and telling his teammate that the one ball had to be in front. I intentionally racked a stripe ball in front when I racked for him. He challenged it and I assured him he was wrong. He won anyway. /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

SPetty
04-12-2005, 10:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote highsea:</font><hr> This is how I rack them. Is this legal Barbara?

http://www.freepoollessons.com/lessons/lessons1/L1images/img_P1010085.JPG<hr /></blockquote>I know I'm not Barbara, and she's already answered, but if you want to believe that there's some advantage to racking solid-stripe-solid-stripe, then in that vein there's also a "rule" where, in your picture, the 2-ball and the 15-ball should be swapped. Don't ask me where these rules come from, but the idea is that in the row above the last row, there should be a stripe and solid in the middle two balls (you've got that) and they should be opposite what's in the nearest corner. Of course, if you did that, you might want to make other arrangements in the bottom row as well.

SpiderMan
04-12-2005, 11:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> Okay, I hope I can convey the racking Q well and how it should be done by BCA reqs.

When you're the racker and you're looking down at the rack, I start with the head ball work towards my right and feel free to reverse the patterns exactly. For the perimeter it is as follows: solid, solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (turning the corner), stripe, solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (next corner), solid, stripe solid. Fill the middle as you will with the 8-ball in the middle.

The main effect is to have two of the same patterned balls in the front "Vee" and the same other patterned balls on the back leg of the rack. This is in compliance with the BCA reqs of having a different patterned ball in each corner, and having each pattern spaced well.
Barbara <hr /></blockquote>
Barbara,

I'm not aware of any BCA requirements for having the "pattern spaced well". Is that something new?

SpiderMan

04-12-2005, 12:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbara:</font><hr> ...as follows: solid, solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (turning the corner), stripe, solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (next corner), solid, stripe solid. Fill the middle as you will with the 8-ball in the middle.

Barbara <hr /></blockquote>

That comes out to 13 balls around the perimeter, 7 solids and 6 stripes. That's too many.
Did you maybe really mean for the stripe below in read to not be there?
solid, solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (turning the corner), <font color="red"> stripe </font color> , solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (next corner), solid, stripe solid

highsea
04-12-2005, 12:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr>...I know I'm not Barbara, and she's already answered, but if you want to believe that there's some advantage to racking solid-stripe-solid-stripe, then in that vein there's also a "rule" where, in your picture, the 2-ball and the 15-ball should be swapped. Don't ask me where these rules come from, but the idea is that in the row above the last row, there should be a stripe and solid in the middle two balls (you've got that) and they should be opposite what's in the nearest corner. Of course, if you did that, you might want to make other arrangements in the bottom row as well.<hr /></blockquote>Hey, I like all suggestions. What I like about this rack is, there are no 3 adjacent balls (all touching each other) that are the same group, excepting the 8ball, which is neutral, and both corner 4-ball groups are equal with 2 stripes and two solids in each group (2-6-11-12, and 4-5-14-15), If I were to transpose the 2 and 15, I would have two groups of 3 that were all the same group (11-12-15, 2-4-5), which might give an advantage to the breaker, by leaving me with the worst of the two potential clusters.

If I adjust the back row to avoid this, by transposing the 4 and 13, I end up with two adjacent balls grouped on the same side of the periphery, instead of having them grouped on opposite sides (13-14, 1-3), as opposed to the way they are now, (1-3 on one side, 11-13 on the other), and I would still be left with the 11-12-15 grouping on the other side. This looks like a biased rack to be.

If I transpose the 4 and 11, I have 3 groups on the periphery of at least 2 adjacent balls (1-3, 4-6, and 11-13-14). If I transpose the 11-13 together with the 4, I get the same result. Either way, I would end up favoring one side of the rack, as far as I can tell, and the back row would have 3 stripes together and 2 solids together.

If I slice my rack right down the center from the head ball to the 13, the two sides are almost the same, the only difference is the 2-ball groups (1-3 and 11-13) are on opposite ends. But the color counts are exactly equal.

If you look at the back two corners, 6-ball groups, one side is 3-3 and the other is 4-2, but the 4-2 side has the 1-3 group to offest the bias on that side of the rack.

To me, this looks as neutral as you can get in a rack. If my opponent doesn't rack this way, I never say anything, but one of the biases I mentioned will exist, which gives me an advantage, at least in my mind! Lol. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Barbara
04-12-2005, 12:31 PM
That comes out to 13 balls around the perimeter, 7 solids and 6 stripes. That's too many.
Did you maybe really mean for the stripe below in read to not be there?
solid, solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (turning the corner), <font color="red"> stripe </font color> , solid, stripe, solid, stripe, (next corner), solid, stripe solid <hr /></blockquote>

Barbara

Barbara
04-12-2005, 12:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>Barbara,

I'm not aware of any BCA requirements for having the "pattern spaced well". Is that something new?

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Spidey,

The only BCA req I'm referring to is having a ball of a different pattern in each corner.

Barbara

bsmutz
04-13-2005, 02:39 PM
I don't think the original poster was asking about anything but the ball on the foot spot. I have been practicing my 8-ball break quite a bit. I always used to aim at the headball but have recently (last couple of months) switched to the second ball. I have noticed that the color of the second ball does make a difference to me. The one and nine are easier for me to delineate from the rest of the balls. As was mentioned above, the six ball is one of the hardest to delineate. A striped ball with mostly white showing is also an easy-to-see target. For the headball, I would go with the one if I am breaking and the six if my opponent is breaking (given that I have control of the placement of the balls). I don't think that it is a big concern. Normally, I don't pay much attention to which balls are where beyond the 8 and stripe/solid in opposite corners and an even pattern around the rack. When using the second ball break, I do find that there is sometimes a difference from one side of the rack to the other. Sometimes one side will present what appears to be a larger target than the other. Sometimes the last row of the rack isn't parallel to the foot rail so that one side of the rack is more exposed from the head of the table than the other. Just my observations and opinions.