View Full Version : 20 Dollar signed ball

06-05-2002, 08:15 PM
I sent and EMAIL to charlie williams and Predator cues about the fee for a autographed ball.I could not get charlie email address to accept email.However PREDATOR got my email and responded with this(Hi,
I wasn't aware of that when I was at the tournament. You are the second
person to make that comment.
I copied this email to Charlie Williams to let him know that you have been
disappointed. I sincerely, apologize for the inconvenience.

Philippe SINGER
Director of Marketing
Predator Products).so please let the sponsors know if there is something you do not agree with.It is there money they should know how we feel.........THANKS

06-05-2002, 08:18 PM
Well, you can be sure that there will be $20 balls at his next event, but I will lay odds that there won't be any announcements about pros not signing autographs at the next Predator event! /ccboard/images/icons/smile.gif

06-05-2002, 08:43 PM
What is $20 bucks

Jay M
06-05-2002, 08:43 PM
OK, let's see here, let's assume for a moment that they DID set up an autograph table with a $5 cost per autograph...

Hmmmm... buy the ball (unsigned)...$5 (it's this low because I will freely admit that the ones they were selling were a bit on the discolored side, figure centennials go for about 120 a set, give or take, and divide that by 16 to see what it would cost with no markup)

what autographs were on the balls that were sold?

Jeremy Jones.....$5
Charlie Williams....$5
Mika Immonen....$5
Earl Strickland....$5

oops, that's $25 I guess I'd better stop (archer and Harriman also signed them...).

Now for the claim that at least you'd get to talk to the pro...

At a pro pool tournament have you EVER seen the pros out there and tried to talk to them after a match? They tend to be very outgoing as a group (unless they lost, in which case some of them prefer to just leave). If you see one of them and they aren't around the tables, try just saying hi and introducing yourself, you'd be surprised at the results. Be courteous though, if they are in a conversation, don't just butt in, you don't want someone interrupting you either.

Now, think back to the last time you saw an autograph table... How much time did the person signing actually spend with each fan? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 2 minutes?

I saw Mika spend nearly 20 minutes just sitting there talking with one person. Danny Harriman sat there and discussed sports (baseball I think?) with a guy for over an hour Friday...

Try it...

Nearly all of the pros took pictures with anyone that asked. If you had a picture taken with one and got it developed the next day, you could very easily have gotten them to autograph it for free...

My point is that just because you feel they are unapproachable, for whatever reason, doesn't mean that they really are.

Jay M

06-05-2002, 09:05 PM
Hey Jay, I'm totally with you on this, but remember, not everyone is able to approach a total stranger, especially if they have a hero worship thing going. I have a tee shirt that was signed by a few pros at Valley Forge a thousand years ago, but not because I had the guts to ask for them! My friend Phil was with me, and Ewa was walking by us in the stands. She had stopped to sign something for someone else, and he told me I should get my shirt signed. I was too shy to ask, so he had to do it for me. Of course, he had to point me out, and I think I might have mumbled something unintelligible, but I was definately too intimidated to ask for myself!! So while there are people in the world who are sure of their welcome and easily able to strike up conversations, there are also those who are perfectly happy with a thirty second conversation at a table where they are purchasing a service, as it were. There's room for both, but a choice SHOULD be available, IMHO.

06-05-2002, 10:16 PM
Why do you want another person to write on your stuff? Please explain AND comprehend for me...just don't write on my stuff! LOL, Rip

06-06-2002, 07:24 AM
Hi Jon,

I was the other person who wrote to them and received an answer within a half hour. 7:48am. I was surprised that he was at work that early. You can send an email to philippe@predatorcues.com. Jake~~~the pen is mightier than the sword.

06-06-2002, 08:03 AM
Jay, Jay, Jay,
Now you know that I can buy cue balls directly from meuller for $3.25 including shipping delivered to my front door. Nice white Aramith balls made in Belgium. Probably less if I bought several boxes.

I suppose you have never been to a baseball card show where a star makes an appearance. The kids line up with ten and twenty dollar bills in their grubby little hands to get him to sign stuff. And they bring the stuff. At least they did ten years ago when I was dealing in baseball card trivia.

Or how about going to a play. tickets for the performance go for 30 bucks and up. But that is not my biggest cost because after the play my wife wants to meet the players and buy tapes/CD's programs and have them sign them. You need several twenty dollar bills to do this. So I give her several twenty's and tell her to do what she wants. To me it's just junk, but she likes it. But then she thinks what I collect is junk.

And those balls Charlie had were pre-signed and some funky color and were for sale at $20. The price was excellent, the product bad. And, I do not buy pre-signed balls. Period. Had Charlie said "we are providing nice white Aramith cue balls made in Belgium that the stars will sign for you at a nominal fee of $20" he probably would have sold out. I would have bought 5 myself because I was prepared to pay Archer and Strickland $30 to sign when I went there.

Charlie, in my opinion, actually has a good idea in promoting pool and making it a money making proposition. The idea is really good but his promotion technique of it sucks. He needs help there.

He did good at the Patriot Cup in Tampa and look at all the polaroid pictures he was able to sell at ten bucks a shot. And they were piss poor quality. It tells me people will pay if you provide them a decent product.

But keep in mind that in Florida there are a lot of people out of work, and those who are working in trades are paid very poorly.

Charlie, and the guys on the tour, need a good promoter. Maybe he should hire you. You seem to do okay with your sponsors.

Are you coming to Ocala on the 15th to play in Kennedy's tournament?


Jay M
06-06-2002, 08:23 AM
Ok, so rather than jumping up and flaming Charlie for the way that he chose to handle the situation, let's put together some ideas and make a coherent list of thoughts to present to him. If we do that, I WILL present them to him personally.

That said, here are the rules that you have to consider.

1) there has to be a way that the players receive compensation, regardless of how little or much.

2) must not require additional tour staff (it costs money to have thos people involved, driving up prices)

3) it must not put unreasonable constraints on the pros. As an example, if I have a match at 11 and another at 3, I am NOT going to be sitting at a table from 1 til 2, it's just not going to happen.

4) It must not disrupt tournament play

5) It must be realistic...

OK, Those are the rules, now let's put together some constructive ideas and keep the conversation civil.

Jay M

06-06-2002, 11:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: Jay M:</font><hr> My point is that just because you feel they are unapproachable, for whatever reason, doesn't mean that they really are.

Jay M <hr></blockquote>

Jay, I agree with you 100% that the players always make themselves available to the fans. Some people are intimidated to ask for autographs and get pretty nervous but they do ask, and to the credit of all the pros... I have never seen anyone turned down... never seen a player who was anything less than warm and friendly. But if the tournament director is on the mic constantly telling people how and when and on what items they can ask for an autograph it makes asking that much more difficult. You and I have lost the intimidation because we have been involved in the pro pool arena for a while. We have likely been involved in the same events, same conversations, and probably have several friends in common. The people who are effected are the ones who maybe have only been to one or a few pro tournaments. I wasn't there so I am only speaking based on the comments I have read on this forum. I remember getting Nick Varner's autograph about 14 years ago when he came to our local pool hall to do an exhabition (sp?). I was so embarrased becuase my hands were shaking when I played the challenge match against him and when he handed my my autographed photo. Heaven knows that if His Royal Highness, MJ ever walked into the DC pool room that I play in I would die a million times and be totally a mess trying to ask for a moment of his royal time.

I personally feel that Charlie was lucky this happened at a realtively small event. If it had happened where there was a larger audience he would likely have a huge PR problem on his hands. I appreciate what he is trying to do for the players and fans and give him alot of credit since his is really the only one doing anything like this. I have personally found Charlie to be abrasive and rude. I have yet to have an encounter with him that was anything but bad, bad, bad. I am sure there are folks out there who say he is a great guy but the only ones I know saying that are the people in his "inner-circle". I don't want to bash Charlie...

All I am saying is put the shoe on the other foot.

With respect and good will, FYI, Vicki

Jay M
06-06-2002, 01:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>Are you coming to Ocala on the 15th to play in Kennedy's tournament?

I'm not sure yet. To go to a Kennedy event generally costs me about the same as what it pays for first so I've not played many. I'm probably going to spend more time working on my game and doing some things to get ready for the UPA tour event in August.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr>I have personally found Charlie to be abrasive and rude. <hr></blockquote>

Charlie may or may not be a good spokesperson for the UPA, that has yet to be seen. Right now, my feeling is that he's pulled together some of the top talent into an association which is more than anyone else has done for men's pool in the recent past. For that, I'll cut him a LOT of slack. I'm still looking forward to the day when I can abandon everything else and play pool for a living (not gambling, I'm against it due to the connotations).

Jay M

06-11-2002, 07:53 PM
well they maybe nice people,but I was told not to disturb the players.I felt like them cry babies thought they were better than me.If so tell them to not to worry about all the money problems they are whinning about.