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thepoolnerd
04-16-2005, 09:01 PM
Someone recently told me that Efren was faced with this dismal position in a recent one pocket game. 7-7 and Efren has the lower pocket and is corner hooked and his opponent has his game ball hanging but the magician managed to win the game from here. Can you guess the next shot that he chose?

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html


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Nick B
04-16-2005, 09:21 PM
1. Efren Intentionaly fouls (leaves opponent hooked)
2. Opponent misses kick
3. Efren makes opponents ball and game on.
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Troy
04-16-2005, 09:26 PM
Was this the game where Efren took an intentional foul by rolling the CB to a position next to the spot ??

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote thepoolnerd:</font><hr> Someone recently told me that Efren was faced with this dismal position in a recent one pocket game. 7-7 and Efren has the lower pocket and is corner hooked and his opponent has his game ball hanging but the magician managed to win the game from here. Can you guess the next shot that he chose?

http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html


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Fran Crimi
04-16-2005, 09:33 PM
Maybe Efren shot played a 3-rail shot, pocketed the 1 ball and followed the cue ball into the pocket for the scratch? Then he'd have to put 2 balls on the foot spot with his opponent's BIH behind the head string.

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Popcorn
04-16-2005, 11:11 PM
All I can think of is to take a foul and let a ball go on the spot. The other guy may kick in the hung ball or bank the spotted ball but I can't think of anything else. Rolling the cue ball to the spot and having a ball spot in back of it still leaves the guy able to kick at the hung ball. I guess I have to keep think about it.

nhp
04-17-2005, 03:28 AM
I think Troy is right, I heard about this one. He rolled the cueball up to the spot, then spotted a ball and his opponent was hooked behind the ball that was spotted. That's incredible to be able to have that speed control, especially jacked up over a pocket.

Troy
04-17-2005, 07:15 AM
If Efren rollod the CB to here ---
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his opponent would need to make a kick off the end rail while jacked up over the spotted 2-ball. Very good chance to miss. Opponent would then need to spot a ball. Both players now need two and it would be Efren's shot.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> All I can think of is to take a foul and let a ball go on the spot. The other guy may kick in the hung ball or bank the spotted ball but I can't think of anything else. Rolling the cue ball to the spot and having a ball spot in back of it still leaves the guy able to kick at the hung ball. I guess I have to keep think about it. <hr /></blockquote>

thepoolnerd
04-17-2005, 08:44 AM
My understanding was that he did roll to the other side of the spot and the other guy duffed the kick shot.

Popcorn
04-17-2005, 10:01 AM
I don't think the shot is that good. He would have to roll it perfect or the guy will be shooting straight in at his ball or kick off the side rail at the ball or even may just have a simple combo on his ball. and even if it did get it as you have it, he still has the jacked up end rail kick which isn't that tough, I just went in the other room and made it on my first attempt. I think the odds, if you want to express it that way, would be way against Efrin winning if he attempts that shot. Just taking a foul and leaving the cue ball corner hooked is I think the right shot. It will work 100% of the time and you just have to then wait and see what the other guy does. I tried the one rail kick from the pocket and it just as hard as the jacked up kick. What it comes down to is, what is the odds of the guy kicking in the hung ball from being hooked by the corner pocket. I would say about 50 50 or less. Now what are the odds of Efrin rolling the cue ball to the spot and have everything work in his favor with the shot, not leaving anything but the jacked up long rail kick, it might be 20 to 1. Plus, if it works perfect as he wants, he still leaves the jacked up kick that may be only again a 50 50 shot anyway. I haven't considered also that if the Efrin "roll out to the spot" shot works perfect, the other guy may take a foul leaving the balls where they are. Now Efrin would be stuck trying to make the jacked up kick and the other guy now needing two still has a ball in his pocket he could make and use to break out the spotted balls winning the game if Efrin misses the kick.

I am doing this in my head pretty quick if I have anything wrong please point it out.

Troy
04-17-2005, 10:29 AM
I think the "foul" you are referring to has been discussed numerous times with the conclusion being it is considered "unsportmanlike conduct".

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Just taking a foul and leaving the cue ball corner hooked is I think the right shot. <hr /></blockquote>

SplinterHands
04-17-2005, 10:48 AM
I did this once and followed it in. Play the percentages.
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Nostroke
04-17-2005, 10:52 AM
It would be unsportsmanlike conduct only if he jammed it up against the Corner Pocket with a foul stroke-double triple hit IMHO.

Fred Agnir
04-17-2005, 11:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> I think the "foul" you are referring to has been discussed numerous times with the conclusion being it is considered "unsportmanlike conduct".
<hr /></blockquote> Not in this case, I don't believe. The normal "corner hook" unsportsmanlike foul is when you have ball-in-hand in the kitchen.

Fred

Popcorn
04-17-2005, 12:55 PM
No not at all, because after Efrin takes the foul, the guy can play a safe off the spotted ball if he chooses, he isn't in any kind of impossable position. It is just his choice whether to kick and risk a foul himself or play safe off the spotted ball. As I think about it more though, Efrin may be dead at this point. If the guy moves the spotted ball to his side of the table, even if Efrin makes the hung ball and follows it in the guy has ball in hand behind the line and can just make his game ball. My original idea of leaving him in the pocket may not be a good idea the more I think about it. Rolling up to the spot, as remote as it's success seems may be the only way to survive. Actually kicking three rails and hoping to follow it is may as good.

Popcorn
04-17-2005, 01:01 PM
After giving it a lot of thought, I would shoot your shot.

Popcorn
04-17-2005, 02:56 PM
what was it he did?

thepoolnerd
04-17-2005, 04:12 PM
He did roll it to behind the spot. Also, the opponents ball may not have been hanging as much as I represented, in which case it probably was the right shot.

Popcorn
04-17-2005, 05:34 PM
After that shot Efrin still has the worst of it. If the guy takes a foul himself Efrin is forced to have to kick in the hung ball. What did the other guy do when Efrin took the foul and the ball was spotted?

Fran Crimi
04-17-2005, 08:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> After giving it a lot of thought, I would shoot your shot. <hr /></blockquote>

I see now that the 1 ball may not have been hanging that deep in the pocket. That would make it tough to scratch with the 3-rail kick.

I used to practice shooting into the point, and I found that the higher up on the point you hit, the longer the cb goes along the rail. I was able to get the cb to hit the bottom rail at several different spots with some practice, so if the 1 ball wasn't hanging and it were me, I'd shoot into the point, catch the bottom rail long, and hope to thin the 1 ball, and send it to my side. Maybe even make the bank. Either way, it sends the cb up-table. It's risky, but so are the other options. It really depends on where exactly the one ball was situated.

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Popcorn
04-17-2005, 10:24 PM
If the ball wasn't deep in the pocket and could be taken out if you can see it, Efrin is not in that much trouble. If he takes a foul and leaves the cue ball corner hooked the other guy can't do much. All he could do is try to kick in the ball but if it isn't that far in the pocket it may not be that easy. If he plays a safe off the spotted ball, unless he gets Efrin doubled up Efrin can take the ball in the pocket out. I thought the ball was too deep to be taken out originly in which case Efrin was in big trouble. I think the ball must have been deep and couldn't be taken out or he would not have shot the shot they say he did, it would be crazy.

Chris Cass
04-17-2005, 10:25 PM
Childs play my friend.

Here goes,

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http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/pooltable2.html

Regards,

C.C.~~you drive the cb through the facing and it's a natural. An old shot, not trying to give up my age or anything. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif BTW, you aim dead straight at the one ball and drive the cb through the facing hard. It's percentages are almost 3 out of 5. It's even higher on a bar table. I made a lot of money off that one sir. hahahahha I of course, don't make the bet to high because, it's more fun to see the other guys faces for .50 ea. LOL Thanks for the good memory.

Popcorn
04-17-2005, 10:38 PM
The guy is saying now that he thinks the ball wasn't deep in the pocket and may have been hard to follow in.

Here is a shot I saw Danny D. shoot I thought was pretty smart. Danny has the pocket to the bottom and he shot the one in the side.
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Fran Crimi
04-17-2005, 11:58 PM
I see what you mean. Plus, if he were that badly hooked where he couldn't see the 3 rail kick, he wouldn't have been able to roll up near the spot either. He had to have had the 3 rail kick option. He just decided to do something else instead.

Brady_Behrman
04-18-2005, 02:23 PM
My Guess if Efren is shooting

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Chris Cass
04-20-2005, 04:36 AM
Hi Fran,

I thought he was trying to show us the FF shot when the cb is froze to the facing. It's an old bar table shot that goes 3 rails if, you aim it at the ob and follow-thru, You actually see the cb force follow thru the shot and go the 3 rails for the kick.

Who Know's?

C.C.

Fran Crimi
04-20-2005, 06:15 AM
Hi Chris!

I know, that's what it looked like in the diagram, right? I hadn't even thought of your option. It's been a long time since anyone's shot that shot. It's a great shot, though.

Fran