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BillPorter
04-18-2005, 06:27 PM
I recently bought some tips from Atlas Billiard Supply and also from a seller on eBay. Both sources advertised the tips as Moori tips (at $10 per tip). They arrived today and the tips from both sources have the markings you would expect from a Moori. And all the tips appear to have 9 layers. I seem to remember Moori tips having 11 layers? Anyone know the facts on this? Thanks in advance for any info.

ABChad
04-19-2005, 08:35 AM
Hi Bill...

The Moori-I originally had 9 layers. The Moori-II came out as an "improvement" which had 11 layers. This generation of tips weren't as good; the layers were de-laminating and the tips developed slight mushrooming after time. Moori released version III. The new version is back to having 9 layers like the Moori-I for consistency.

To check if the tips are real--look at the leather on the tip itself... is the leather splotchy or spotted? It should be. Does it have a Moori logo in the appropriate color? Mediums will be green; slow or soft is red; quick or hard is blue. Does it say "glue side" on one side? If you answered YES to all of the above questions, your tips are more likely than not real Moori's.

You do have to be careful though... There are plenty of fakes out there. Be ware of anyone selling Moori's for less than $7.00/ea. Atlas Billiard Supplies is THE ONLY NORTH AMERICAN DISTRIBUTOR FOR MOORI'S!!! Buying from them, or any of their customers, is the only way to be 100% sure that the tips are real.

SpiderMan
04-19-2005, 08:46 AM
Bill,

I have not yet progressed to buying Moori-IIIs, as I am still using my supply of the old style. Are there no online references to the number of layers?

I did have a similar experience a couple of years ago when buying "Hercules" tips. They are (or were) advertised as a 23-layer tip, but the ones Atlas sent had only 11 layers. When I compared them side-by-side with Talismans, they were identical down to the font and ink used for the stamped lettering, and the "wavy" inconsistent thickness of the layers.

Atlas folks insisted that these were Hercules and not Talismans, and that this is "how they're made now". But it really sets me wondering who manufactures what, and how careful distributors are when tossing stuff into bins, bags, and boxes. Interesting that you are also questioning material supplied by Atlas. Maybe we need to start a thread on that topic.

Could "23 layers" mean 11 layers of leather held together by 10 layers of glue, a layer of varnish on the top, and a layer of varnish on the bottom? After all, every Colonel Sanders chicken has three breasts! /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Here are side and top views of the tips. In each photo, the Atlas-supplied "Hercules" is on the left, and a verified Talisman (from Tony) is on the right: Side View (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkychateau/detail?.dir=/9e1d&.dnm=d06e.jpg&.src=ph) Top View (http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/funkychateau/detail?.dir=/9e1d&.dnm=fd6b.jpg&.src=ph)

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
04-19-2005, 08:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ABChad:</font><hr> Hi Bill...

Be ware of anyone selling Moori's for less than $7.00/ea. Atlas Billiard Supplies is THE ONLY NORTH AMERICAN DISTRIBUTOR FOR MOORI'S!!! Buying from them, or any of their customers, is the only way to be 100% sure that the tips are real. <hr /></blockquote>

Barringer's (formerly Florida, now in Las Vegas) sells a ton of Moori tips by telephone, internet, and Ebay. Their prices are generally much lower than Atlas (I bought mine for about $7.50 each during a promotion). Are they not a legitimate retailer? What are the chances their tips are fakes?

SpiderMan

ABChad
04-19-2005, 09:04 AM
Hey Spidey-


The tips that you have shown ARE identical... they are both Hercules edition#1 (who informed you of 23 layers???). The H-2 or second edition has 12 layers. ALL Talisman tips have the name "TALISMAN" imprinted across the top arched over the letter designating density. BTW, who is Tony??? If you are refering to Tony from Tiger products, they don't make the Talisman tips.

ABChad
04-19-2005, 09:11 AM
Spidey-

They're real... those tips ultimately come from us. We offer better prices than that in large quantities, though for single pieces we charge more. Atlas Billiards is not a retail store, and we try to discourage individual players from calling us to purchase a handfull of tips for themselves.

SpiderMan
04-19-2005, 10:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ABChad:</font><hr> Hey Spidey-


The tips that you have shown ARE identical... they are both Hercules edition#1 (who informed you of 23 layers???). The H-2 or second edition has 12 layers. ALL Talisman tips have the name "TALISMAN" imprinted across the top arched over the letter designating density. BTW, who is Tony??? If you are refering to Tony from Tiger products, they don't make the Talisman tips. <hr /></blockquote>


ABChad,

The Talisman tips in the photo were purchased directly from Tony Jones at Talisman, without going through a middleman, so I can be sure of their origins. The "Hercules" tips were purchased about a year later from Atlas Billiards, who advertised Hercules to be a 23-layer tip. One reason I bought them was curiousity as to how a tip would look with so many layers, so I was disappointed when Atlas apparently sent me Talismans (at a $2 premium!).

If you have been with Atlas for several years you may remember our correpondence, though I do not remember the name of my Atlas contact. At the time, Atlas still advertised 23 layers for Hercules tips, but you (Atlas contact) noted that the construction had changed. Because of the Talisman-lookalike nature of what I received, I just assumed you had made an inventory mistake and let it drop because I had only bought a handful of "Hercules" anyway.

BTW, Tony has varied the markings on his tips several times over the years.

As recently as two years ago, posters to this forum have described seeing 23-layer Hercules tips, both in person and in advertised description: 2003 Post by Fats (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=82237&amp;page= &amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)

SpiderMan

Popcorn
04-19-2005, 10:58 AM
Do you think that discussing one of your wholesale customers on the Internet is ethical? You are saying that Barringer buys their tips you. That is up to them if they want to disclose this information. You have to a degree a fiduciary relationship with your customers and should not be talking about them.

SpiderMan
04-19-2005, 10:58 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ABChad:</font><hr> Spidey-

They're real... those tips ultimately come from us. We offer better prices than that in large quantities, though for single pieces we charge more. Atlas Billiards is not a retail store, and we try to discourage individual players from calling us to purchase a handfull of tips for themselves. <hr /></blockquote>

Chad,

See your PM.

SpiderMan

ABChad
04-19-2005, 01:54 PM
Pop-

You are right, and I apologize for my mistake. I shouldn't disclose any of our customers information. Let it be simply said then that Atlas is the ONLY North American distributor for Moori tips. Anyone selling real tips buys them from us, or from overseas. There are TONS of fakes out there, so be careful of who you buy from. I was trying to say that Barringer is a good guy, and he gets the REAL thing. For any of you out there that sell bogus replicas, take notes.

SpiderMan
04-19-2005, 02:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Do you think that discussing one of your wholesale customers on the Internet is ethical? You are saying that Barringer buys their tips you. That is up to them if they want to disclose this information. You have to a degree a fiduciary relationship with your customers and should not be talking about them. <hr /></blockquote>

Popcorn,

Chad didn't specifically state whether Barringer buys directly from Atlas, or through an additional middleman. He said the tips "ultimately come from us".

I agree with your principle, but he didn't reveal anthing that couldn't be deduced from a verification that Barringer's tips are "real". If Atlas is the only distributor, then every reseller of the "real thing" must "ultimately" be their customer.

SpiderMan

BillPorter
04-19-2005, 04:09 PM
Chad,

Thanks for the information! From what you said, I believe that the tips I just purchased are genuine Moori III tips.

Bill

BillPorter
04-19-2005, 04:11 PM
Marty,

I did try checking online to determine the number of layers in the current Moori tips. After going to about page 4 of a Google search, I figured someone on CCB would know the answer right away. Apparently that was the case. Thanks for your reply.

Bill