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View Full Version : Hopkins and Hearns (Nothing new)



Grady
02-21-2002, 09:57 AM
Hopkins is up to his old tricks.Look at the prize money he's advertising for his "Professional" event.If he gets 64 players at $300 per, that comes to $19,200, which means he's adding $5,800.He already takes two thirds of the amateurs entry fees, forget about adding anything.The booth rentals, at an average of $900 per comes to $117,000. Where's all the money?
Hearns, again a self professed gangster( I heard him with my own ears), has taken our game and in his last effort invited one North American, Earl Strickland.This time seven players from here are going.If American audiences clamor enough about not being able to watch,American TV will give Hearns what he wants, which is pretty much worldwide total control and no one will make any serious money except for the proverbial handpicked few.
I predicted what would happen, with startling accuracy, when Bob Hunter was ousted in a very gangster like and trumped up election and Hopkins, Mackey and Braun came into prominence.
It's a shame that I have to be the one who stands up to these creeps.All I ever wanted to do was be a pool player.But everything people like this touch, ends up with a phony stench and they have no plans to alter anything.Whu should they? They even have folks defending them and their actions.It's disgraceful.

02-21-2002, 10:40 AM
Actually, having worked for Barry Hearn for some years now, I can vouch that he is not, in fact, a gangster, rather a businessman, sports enthusiast and certified accountant. He has no desire to take over the world; what he wants to do is try and raise the game of pool a little. If investing money in the game and running $300,000 added tournaments with no entry fee, is gangsterism then perhaps there should be more of them out there. Compared to other sports pool is a minnow in the pond and then money available to players is commensurate but hopefully over the years it will grow in the right way.

The seven American players on the list on my post ( I'm assuming that is what you are refering to) are just 'name' players quoted by the bookmakers. There will be a nomination of possibly 14 American players by the BCA (based on rankings throughout the season) for this summer's World Championship. The good news for those players not nominated is that there will be a minimum of ten spots - probably more - available for the qualifying competition taking place the week before so with this advance warning I hope to see you there.

Luke Riches
Matchroom Sport

Q-guy
02-21-2002, 11:07 AM
From what you say, it sounds like everything is up front. I don't see where it is anyone's business what he does as long as all promises are kept. Who cares if he makes a million of this thing. It is his business. It is not your business what he does with the booth rental money. I just don't get where you are coming from.

Rich R.
02-21-2002, 11:34 AM
I agree with you Q-guy. These people are in business to make money. You can not expect them to do all the work necessary to put on major events and go home empty handed. Like you said, as long as they keep their promises, and everything is up front, there is no problem with them making a profit, regardless of the amount. Profit is a result of successful business practices. Rich R.

Grady
02-21-2002, 11:53 AM
There were a fair number of years where I was almost universally considered to be the best money player in the world.I kept a low profile, minded my own business and behaved myself everywhere I went.I got invited to zero invitationals and was badly discriminated against by organizations and many companies.As were many of my peers.But I didn't have somebody like me to warn against the dangers of Hearns and Hopkins,etc.
Do you really think it's all right for Hopkins to make a couple of hundred thousand dollars and TAKE LIKE ALL THE MONEY?Can you name one older pro that he's helped get work or even that he can claim as a friend?Nice, I guess that he has meetings behind closed doors and decides what ESPN is going to do and who's going to do commentary?
In England Hearns helped promote snooker but only 3 or 4 players ever really made any money.There is serious debate now as to whether British amateur snooker players play better than the top players in snooker.You don't see any great events being done for the amateurs in England by Hearns or commentary being done by anyone other than his handpicked cronies!!
Ok,if some of you young champions aren't too obtuse to grasp this, I'll state it as plainly as I can.Courtesy of Hearns, Hopkins or Braun how much work have you received? How many invitationals have you played in?Endorsements?Anything at all to suggest that this group has anything at all in mind other than lining their own pockets?Please use your heads and help me fight these boils on pocket billiards' posterior.If you don't, you're looking, I promise you at 40 years of discrimination just like I and others of ny ilk faced.
I have some great stuff coming up in the near future and as always afterwards my books are open and there will not be an invitational.In fact it's a great honor to have good players in my events.I also plan a small credit union, pension benefits and insurance plans for everyone.

Q-guy
02-21-2002, 12:42 PM
You say a couple hundred thousand like that it is a lot of money. I would say the day after his expo ends, he begins working on next years show. It is probably his major income for the whole year. The fact that to the public it takes place in one weekend, doesn't change the fact it takes the better part of a year to put together. I would hate to think of the total number of hours, he and his staff put in, as well as up front money and guarantees he commits to, for his final return. I don't see any big score. Just a job. I personally am glad he is willing to do it. You seem to think anyone that is more successful then you, must be a gangster. How about they are just smart hard working people. That is more the case.

TomBrooklyn
02-21-2002, 12:59 PM
There were a fair number of years where I was almost universally considered to be the best money player in the world. I kept a low profile, minded my own business and behaved myself everywhere I went. I got invited to zero invitationals and was badly discriminated against by organizations and many companies...

Grady,
Didn't you purposely avoid these competitions by your own decision, (to escape notoriety or for your own reasons?) Aren't these the same competitions that you now claim would not allow you to enter?

...As were many of my peers...

I have never heard any of your peers make these accusations.

...Do you really think it's all right for Hopkins to make a couple of hundred thousand dollars and TAKE LIKE ALL THE MONEY?

Yes. As long as they meet their agreements and obligations, and operate within the law, they are entitled to keep whatever profit is made. If they can make a profit; it would bode well for the pool industry as it may be an impetus for others to put on similar events.

...Can you name one older pro that he's helped get work or even that he can claim as a friend?

I can't think of any at this time. However, that does not make him a gangster. As a matter of fact; many reputed gangsters are reported to have helped older pros in their field, and have lots of friends.

...Nice, I guess that he has meetings behind closed doors and decides what ESPN is going to do and who's going to do commentary?

ESPN taking orders from Hearns or Hopkins strikes me as ludicrous. However, if ESPN is providing services to them for which they are paying, or if ESPN feels it is in their own best interests, i'm sure they will try to meet their specifications and requirements. Are you suggesting that we prohibit the conduct of ordinary business and commerce between private parties, or that ESPN should not cater to it's customers or negotiate with it's business associates?

...In England Hearns helped promote snooker but only 3 or 4 players ever really made any money. There is serious debate now as to whether British amateur snooker players play better than the top players in snooker. You don't see any great events being done for the amateurs in England by Hearns or commentary being done by anyone other than his handpicked cronies!! Ok, if some of you young champions aren't too obtuse to grasp this, I'll state it as plainly as I can. Courtesy of Hearns, Hopkins or Braun how much work have you received? How many invitationals have you played in? Endorsements? Anything at all to suggest that this group has anything at all in mind other than lining their own pockets? Please use your heads and help me fight these boils on pocket billiards' posterior. If you don't, you're looking, I promise you at 40 years of discrimination just like I and others of my ilk faced...

- What do you mean by "fight" them?
- Are you trying to drive them out of the pool business or make them change the way they conduct their business?
- How would you suggest going about this?
- What specific goals would you suggest to supplant the private profit goals you accuse them of?
- Endorsements? Are you in a position to provide, or do you have a way to get endorsements for players?

I have some great stuff coming up in the near future and as always afterwards my books are open and there will not be an invitational. In fact it's a great honor to have good players in my events.

Looking forward to it Grady. Best wishes for success. P.S. If you like to open your books to the public, be my guest. If your, however, advocating that the general public should be able to inspect the books of any private enterprise, I would strongly object.


I also plan a small credit union, pension benefits and insurance plans for everyone.

Super Idea! Good luck and straight shooting.

CarolNYC
02-21-2002, 03:58 PM
You forgot to calculate the monies for security and staff and like someone else said"Its no ones business!" I think he's doing a great job and brings alot of people together!
Carol

02-21-2002, 04:27 PM
Grady, I frankly think you're talking about apples and oranges. Their trade show is for consumers; the tournament is for players. As to the show's profitability, if the Hopkins' DIDN'T quest for a profit - given all the planning, effort, expenses for staff and rental of the hall (which can't be cheap) - then they would correctly be categorized not as gangsters but a pair of damn fools. Which they clearly are not.

I suppose the $5,800 he adds to the $19,200 in entry fees isn't that princely a sum - but what's the norm? What do other tournament promoters add? What did you add in your events (which were clearly some of the best we've ever had)?

One more point: you can be absolutely CERTAIN that Barry Hearn will not dictate anything to ESPN. Pool is a non-primetime event, which makes it their market and not his. At one point, Mackey laid down a list of outrageous demands of the station, and they told him in so many words to go to hell. Why would you think Hearn would be any more authoritative? GF

Grady
02-21-2002, 06:28 PM
My events have averaged $25,000 added.That's entry fees plus my added money,not one nickel less.He not only doesn't add anything-he takes two thirds of the amateurs entry fees.
The reason most of the pros don't say anything,George is that they're somewhat scared of him and people like Hopkins carry a grudge for a long time.Listen to me carefully here.If you don't think I speak the truth,ask anybody who knows us both well,(it'll have to be off the record of course)and you'll see who's the truth teller.
The posts in favor of Dr. D are almost exactly the same ratio I got about Hopkins when I wrote and disseminated my papers on him.I got e-mails from people that he's cheated and muscled, going back many years.When I began to list the wrongdoings that he's foisted off on our wonderful sport, I couldn't believe how much of a phony he's been all these years.And if it ever came to having to prove what I allege I'd have a field day in court.Let's see'I suppose I could start with the missing $25,000 from the PPPA.Well, forget it for now.I will tell you this.If I had had the presence of mind to record some of the things I was told by Mackey and Hopkins there'd probably be racketeering charges.
It was strictly this idiot's decision to make a mortal enemy out of me.He has always treated the rest of us with distain and aloofness.That I could have tolerated despite him glomming ALL THE MONEY whenever he had the chance.But when he cheated me the last time, knowing I'd been some really rough years and that my game has fallen off as I've aged, well, I decided that I would in legal ways try for the rest of life to unseat this embarrassment to our sport.
Forget about me for a minute.If I'm wrong with my words how about he at least allow a neutral panel of industry experts to decide who does commentary and what's going to be on television?That would never happen.By the way you all should hear how he talks about all of us behind our backs.He is a complete disgrace to pool.

cueball1950
02-21-2002, 08:09 PM
Grady.... Life is to short to hold such hard feelings. You may not know me by name , but you would recognise the face. Is it really worth it to hold such hard feelings.. Is anyone worth getting so upset over.Kepp up the stress and you will have a stroke or heart attack...I used to get streessed out and upset like you are doing now, but it took a heart attack to show me the light...By the way,, what ever happened to don mackey?????????

#### leonard
02-23-2002, 05:24 PM
I have returned, I just want to say what I said 37 years ago. Pools for Fools, here is what I wrote in the American Billiard Review. When the US dropped the Atom Bomb Russian saw what a great weapon it was and they set out to steal our secret. Many spies were execcuted for spying for Russian. Now take Professional Golf they have the atom bomb of inividual sport why not take their secret and copy it and pool might make it. 37 years later the TPGA has over 500 million in the bank, own 5 major golf courses. The leading money winner makes more money than all the pool players combined and we have pool people who still think that having promoters running tournaments is the way to go instead of running the tourneys themselves as the pro golfers do. ####

02-23-2002, 08:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: #### leonard:</font><hr> I have returned.


welcome back, you were missed.

i'm sitting here wondering why i would want pool to be more popular when all that would mean to me would be higher table rates and longer waits when i do venture forth from the worlds smallest, but best, pool room.

dan

#### leonard
02-23-2002, 09:04 PM
Dan I would play golf with a fellow pool player and whenever he could he knock golf as a bum game. His reasoning was he didn't want anymore people playing golf. He ran Joe Cantons poolroom after me but he was a mean drunk. He went into a new bar in Troy and the owner said Muggsy,Suggsy,Fuggsy I don't know your name but out. Years later the starter at the Troy links wanted to add a fourth to the threesome. It was the bar owner and Muggsy hit him with Metro,Fetro,Setro I don't want to play with you.####

Tom_In_Cincy
02-24-2002, 01:40 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: #### leonard:</font><hr> I have returned, I just want to say what I said 37 years ago. Pools for Fools, here is what I wrote in the American Billiard Review. When the US dropped the Atom Bomb Russian saw what a great weapon it was and they set out to steal our secret. Many spies were execcuted for spying for Russian. Now take Professional Golf they have the atom bomb of inividual sport why not take their secret and copy it and pool might make it. 37 years later the TPGA has over 500 million in the bank, own 5 major golf courses. The leading money winner makes more money than all the pool players combined and we have pool people who still think that having promoters running tournaments is the way to go instead of running the tourneys themselves as the pro golfers do. #### <hr></blockquote>

The PGA is ligtht years ahead of Pool.. and its not really fair to Pool to use the PGA as a comparison. Golf has much better scenery and is outdoors, very warm, and huge numbers of daily attendance (100,000+).

Pool is more like Bowling.. same scenery (common lanes) and small room for audiences.

But, like unlike the PGA, the Bowlers are just like the Pool players, they have to go where the promoters have arranged the tournaments.


And welcome back too.

#### leonard
02-25-2002, 08:58 AM
Tom 37 years ago the PGA wasn't drawing 100,000 but they had gotten stiffed enuff from promoters that they knew they had to run the tournaments for themselves. It is the concept that could be copied running all tourneys for charity. That way you capture the quality people in an area to push your event. As I pointed out When I ran the Albany Golden Cue we opened with Joe Balsis and Irving Crane and didn't draw 200 people for the 4 games. Then I played Irving Crane 6 months later at Wolferts Roost CC before 250+ people and they turned away over 100 people because they didn't allow women in the mens club were they had 4 pool tables. It was then that I realized that the right people could promote curling. I also said at that time that there isn't anyone in the poolroom business that could promote the game. I would ask this question what do you think golfers would be playing for if the public courses were behind tournament golf? ####

Tom_In_Cincy
02-25-2002, 08:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote: #### leonard:</font><hr> I would ask this question what do you think golfers would be playing for if the public courses were behind tournament golf? #### <hr></blockquote>

Leonard,
Your point is well made and taken.
Public courses would have ruined the golf pro's chances of ever being where they are today.
No Men's Pro Pool organization to put on a tournament, let alone a tour.

02-25-2002, 10:44 PM
grady,
what do you do all year? what have you done to promote pool? when was the last time you got to look at "the books" for the expo?
if you don't like the show, don't go. its simple. you whine like a baby, which is sad for such a seasoned man. somewhere along the way, you must have realized that no one really cared how much gambled for, or how often you played, except whomever beat you.
if you spent as much time being productive as you do being negative, maybe you'd be somewhere by now.
its really sad.