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View Full Version : Beginner needs Tip Care Advice!



MacGyver
05-03-2005, 06:36 PM
Hello, I am a beginner pool player who is in college w/ many time to spend at the campus's free tables. The house cues are all terrible and curved due to policies in storing them, so I went and bought myself a $20 dollar cue(walmart), $10 case, $6 shaper, $10 tapper and $4 master chalk in order to make my game more constistant. After the initial $50 dollar investment, I am down to barely any more money and don't think I can afford any other tools to replace a tip, ect so I had a couple questions:

The tip on this cue is very terrible and miscue's often, and other better players with custom cues have also said that yes, this is a bad tip(it is also extremely hard).

So my question is how should you care for a bad tip?

I have the shaper and tapper and while it seems simple enough, I wonder if I am missing something.

I have shapped the cue to nickle size, and I am a bit afraid to ruin the tip with the tapper. Do you just pick at the tip with the tapper(I have a sharpe bunch of needles type one, not a flat kind - It is black and fits on a key chain like a tube of lipstick or something, I think it might be a tip pik shadow?)?

Should you put it on the top and tap it with something harder? How deep should you put the holes, how hard to hit it, ect ect.

On a bad tip, how often should you re-tap it?

Anything else to try to get it to miscue less often?(I have plenty of chaulk).

also:
The only local pool place I could find only does tip replacement through one of their customers(I think that you drop it off and he picks it up and takes it home and works on it there).

Does anyone know the average price for tip replacement or a good tip to put on a cheap cue?

I am really driven away by the price because I don't think I can afford to have someone put a new tip on, but honestly I can get a ton of english with the curved house cues with soft tip's, but this tip can barely get a foot of draw without miscueing....

Does anyone know the average price for new tip+replacement, whether it is even worth it on a cheap cue, what type of tip to get if it was replaced, or whether it was nessecary at all or would tapping+shaping do enough?

Thanks!

Troy
05-03-2005, 07:10 PM
Sounds like your problem is the tip is extremely hard and you're shooting way off center trying to get a ton of spin.
Using the pick part of the tool, push just enough to create a way to hold chalk.
Or get the tip replaced with a medium for about $10.
The nickel radius is just fine.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MacGyver:</font><hr> Hello, I am a beginner pool player who is in college w/ many time to spend at the campus's free tables. The house cues are all terrible and curved due to policies in storing them, so I went and bought myself a $20 dollar cue(walmart), $10 case, $6 shaper, $10 tapper and $4 master chalk in order to make my game more constistant. After the initial $50 dollar investment, I am down to barely any more money and don't think I can afford any other tools to replace a tip, ect so I had a couple questions:

The tip on this cue is very terrible and miscue's often, and other better players with custom cues have also said that yes, this is a bad tip(it is also extremely hard).

So my question is how should you care for a bad tip?

I have the shaper and tapper and while it seems simple enough, I wonder if I am missing something.

I have shapped the cue to nickle size, and I am a bit afraid to ruin the tip with the tapper. Do you just pick at the tip with the tapper(I have a sharpe bunch of needles type one, not a flat kind)?

Should you put it on the top and tap it with something harder? How deep should you put the holes, how hard to hit it, ect ect.

On a bad tip, how often should you re-tap it?

Anything else to try to get it to miscue less often?(I have plenty of chaulk).

also:
The only local pool place I could find only does tip replacement through one of their customers(I take it you drop it off and he picks it up and takes it home).

Does anyone know the average price for tip replacement or a good tip to put on a cheap cue?

I am really driven away by the price because I don't think I can afford to have someone put a new tip on, but honestly I can get a ton of english with the curved house cues with soft tip's, but this tip can barely get a foot of draw without miscueing....

Does anyone know the average price for new tip+replacement, whether it is even worth it on a cheap cue, what type of tip to get if it was replaced, or whether it was nessecary at all or would tapping+shaping do enough?

Thanks! <hr /></blockquote>

stickman
05-03-2005, 07:27 PM
I don't use a tip pik anymore because I use layered tips and they are a no-no. With regular tips, I very lightly penetrated the pik and gave a slight twisting motion to lightly ruff up the surface. $10.00 is average for a standard tip replacement. I would guess that you might prefer something like a Le Pro, or ask what the installer recommends.

Troy
05-03-2005, 07:40 PM
I agree completely about never using a pick on layered tips. I didn't mention it since he said money was tight and I didn't think he'd want to spring for a layered tip (yet).
By his description, it doesn't sound like he has a TipPik®, but the slight twisting motion certainly applies to whatever tool he has.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> I don't use a tip pik anymore because I use layered tips and they are a no-no. With regular tips, I very lightly penetrated the pik and gave a slight twisting motion to lightly ruff up the surface. $10.00 is average for a standard tip replacement. I would guess that you might prefer something like a Le Pro, or ask what the installer recommends. <hr /></blockquote>

Stick
05-03-2005, 08:50 PM
I have never heard that a pick is bad on layered tips, but I do imagine that there would be more risk associated with this kind of tip. I have been using a tip-pik on my Mori medium for a while now. I was finding that the Mori medium got very smooth and hard after only a little playing. I use the tip-pik carefully working the edge to the center, applying the most pressue to the center... you don't want to risk tearing he edge. I just rough it up enough to hold the chalk better and that seems to work great, rather than resorting to a shaper which would take off too much of the tip. This has been working for me, but I think next time I will go with the Mori slow as I think it would not get as smooth and hard as the medium, and thus I probably would not need the tip-pik at all.

Bob_Jewett
05-03-2005, 10:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MacGyver:</font><hr>... $6 shaper, $10 tapper <hr /></blockquote>
It's too late to save your money now, but you didn't really need those. A couple of pieces of #120 sandpaper and a little coordination is all that's required. Get a small flat board, hold the sandpaper against it and roll it onto the tip -- better than a tapper. Fold the sandpaper a couple of times and bend it into a half-cylinder and you can shape your tip -- and your tip should need shaping only once in its life, and "tapping" rarely.

A tip costs about a dollar. Super glue gel might cost a couple or three. There are pretty good descriptions of how to retip on-line, but briefly: Sand both surfaces flat, center the tip, trim the edge when set, shape the top. It's good experience.

Some people like gadgets. Most of them aren't necessary.

sneakypapi
05-03-2005, 10:20 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> I agree completely about never using a pick on layered tips. I didn't mention it since he said money was tight and I didn't think he'd want to spring for a layered tip (yet).
By his description, it doesn't sound like he has a TipPik®, but the slight twisting motion certainly applies to whatever tool he has.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote stickman:</font><hr> I don't use a tip pik anymore because I use layered tips and they are a no-no. With regular tips, I very lightly penetrated the pik and gave a slight twisting motion to lightly ruff up the surface. $10.00 is average for a standard tip replacement. I would guess that you might prefer something like a Le Pro, or ask what the installer recommends. <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>

I have tried quite a few tips, layered and non layered. First, I wanted to give some input regarding his problem with the tip on the Wal-mart cue. I have a friend that has a cue in that price range and it has a tip that is not even leather, but a phenolic type tip (a very hard plastic type tip for those who do not know). I would guess this is the problem with miscuing, no matter how much you chalk up with this tip you will have problems. My suggestion would be to get a LePro put on for about 10 bucks, I know it is half the cost of the cue but will make your game much more enjoyable. There is no way of really salvaging the tip that is on there now no matter how you prepare it unless you use it for a break cue. The bottom line with equipment is you get what you pay for.

Next, I wanted to address layered tips and using a Tip-Pik type product. If the layered tip is of a very good quality it should not delaminate if you use little pressure and a Tip-pik. I know because I have used a pik and never had trouble with a few different brands. Basically, you should just pick gently at the top surface just enough to rough it up.

Sid_Vicious
05-03-2005, 10:50 PM
"My suggestion would be to get a LePro put on for about 10 bucks, I know it is half the cost of the cue but will make your game much more enjoyable. There is no way of really salvaging the tip that is on there now no matter how you prepare it unless you use it for a breakcue."

Ditto, puy out the $10 for a new tip, that cheapo now on there is not leather at all. Lepro is fine, Triangle as well. As far as the tip tools, I use none, nada, just play with it and let it get it's own curvature by your own stroke style. IMPO people dwell too much with fiddling and scratching and pickin' and all that stuff. Jm2c...sid

MacGyver
05-03-2005, 11:02 PM
Thanks all, I will check in to see how much a tip+tip replacement will cost, and then try to have a go at it myself beforehand to see the results(and if not good just get it replaced by someone else)... what would be the best way to trim a tip(I have kitchen knived, razors, pocket knifes, ect and plenty of superglue+sand paper so I might only have to buy a tip)?

Another thing, I am really only wanting something to keep my game constistant.... Right now, they have a big bag of slip on tips(tip and ferrule together) and they've replaced a couple house cues with these, and I like them more than my current tip.

With the house cues, I can't aim b/c of the curve but can easily draw back a table length every time, what are the dis-advantages of prying off the ferrule on my current cue(pliers?) and glueing on a slip-on?

I'll definatly look at getting it replaced by someone else with a good tip, but figured that there might have been an easier way without spending money or driving off campus /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks!

-macgyver
ps thanks for the tip about sand paper... though I figure that the shaper and tapper should last quiet a long while hopefully and will last me even later on when I can afford a good cue+good tip, so hopefully overtime the cost will be lessened... that's one of the reasons I spent so little on the cue and am fearing getting the tip replaced, not sure I want to put more value into a cue that isn't good(its walmart graphite composite, lol, at least its straight), or if I should tough it out with this tip and wait until I can afford a good $150 cue that comes with a better tip right off the bat.

Sid_Vicious
05-03-2005, 11:26 PM
The slip ons go over the existing ferrule, DO NOT PRY OFF THE FERRULE YOU HAVE NOW! Try the slip on, it's a quick fix to the problem, not optimal mind you, but acceptable at this stage...sid

sneakypapi
05-03-2005, 11:34 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote MacGyver:</font><hr> Thanks all, I will check in to see how much a tip+tip replacement will cost, and then try to have a go at it myself beforehand to see the results(and if not good just get it replaced by someone else)... what would be the best way to trim a tip(I have kitchen knived, razors, pocket knifes, ect and plenty of superglue+sand paper so I might only have to buy a tip)?

Another thing, I am really only wanting something to keep my game constistant.... Right now, they have a big bag of slip on tips(tip and ferrule together) and they've replaced a couple house cues with these, and I like them more than my current tip.

With the house cues, I can't aim b/c of the curve but can easily draw back a table length every time, what are the dis-advantages of prying off the ferrule on my current cue(pliers?) and glueing on a slip-on?

I'll definatly look at getting it replaced by someone else with a good tip, but figured that there might have been an easier way without spending money or driving off campus /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thanks!

First of all, slip on tips are just that. They are made to slip over an existing tip as a quick fix or a bandaide of sorts. I would not recommend them at all. Don't even think about prying off your ferrule and tip that is an easy way of ruining your cue esp. fiberglass which can crack easily and you might as well throw it in the garbage.

If you want to try to put on your own tip, you can get a Le Pro for a dollar at most local pool shops. Honestly, if you want to do it right the tools you would need cost more that the tip replacement. Here are some basic instructions for a replacement with the most basic tools, but will work.

First, you cut off your old tip with a very sharp razor, but be careful and use even pressure.

Then, you must sand the ferrule and back of the tip surfaces very flat, hard to gauge without a proper cue top sander ( a tool that you can buy).

Next, use super glue gel and use a small amount on the top of the ferrule and smaller amount on the tip then carefully rub them together to cover the surface then finally set the tip even and centered until looks right. (Tip: buy the tip a mm larger than the surface so you can trim it to match the ferrule)

Finally, lay the cue with the tip down on a cutting surface of course after the tip has time to dry about a half hour or so to play it safe. Then take a very sharp razor knife, and trim the tip even with the ferrule, using the ferrule as guide to get it as close as possible to the surface.

This will look a little crude with rough edges, you will want to use some sand paper to go around the edges to clean it up.

This is the most basic of doing it yourself.

MacGyver
05-04-2005, 12:41 AM
Ah Ha!

This is exactly why this forum is great and a valuable resource to many.

Thank you for stopping me from taking pliers to my cue!

I figured that slip-ons just went over the wood.... thanks for straightening it out /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I can definitely spare a dollar for a better tip at this point... I'll try sandpaper/tapping it more, then try a slip-on, then try to replace myself, and when/if that fails will get it replaced professionally.

Thanks!

BlindPlayer
05-04-2005, 08:34 AM
Hey MacGyver! Good thing you asked huh? This type of chat is good };- ) jay leno chin w/wink

Scott Lee
05-04-2005, 08:38 AM
MacGyver...Nobody else has mentioned this, so I will. MOST miscues come from a lack of chalk, or a poor stroke. Yes, a "hard" tip is sometimes more likely to miscue (and even expert players still miscue, regardless of the tip), but poor technique is more often responsible. ALL pool cue tips will SEEM hard when you have them in your hands. No tip (even Elk Masters) is soft enough to be pliant. NO tip draws better than another...it is ALL due to good technique! Using house cues that are warped is not difficult either. Simply turn the cue in your hand, so that the warp is up and down, rather than left or right. Slip-on tips are the worst possible tips (next to screw-on). Bob Jewett and others gave you the heads up. Buy a cheap LePro tip, and put it on yourself. You now have all the info you need, to "cure" your problem. Good luck!

Scott Lee

Rod
05-04-2005, 09:02 AM
Just a word of caution, some of those walmart and kmart specials had screw on tips. Your's may not be since it's a glass cue but it's worth checking before hand.

Rod

MacGyver
05-04-2005, 03:31 PM
Update:

Thanks for the advice on stroke and chalk, but I have a very consistent stroke and use plenty of chalk.

I also don't agree with:"tip draws better than another...it is ALL due to good technique!"

Using the same good technique, then why was there a discrepancy of a table length with the house cue and 1 foot max with my bad hard tip using the same technique?

Anyway, thank you all for your advice!

Using the newfound confidence that I could always replace it, I went to work with the tip pik and dug up the tip pretty deep and got a bunch of nice holes and twisted tears and stuff.

The tip works usuable now.... just came back from 3hrs of table time and only miscued once b/c I was distracted and missed the stroke.... Now that I dug up the tip a bunch, I can draw back just about the same as the other tips(I think they are 2mm bigger than mine, would that affect draw?) and it handles a bunch better and holds chalk well.

Thanks all for your advice, upon picking at it I think that it is a leather tip and not plastic, and also that I was probably just too soft before when I attempted to rough up the tip.... going at it very hard with the pik has really seemed to help and I was more limited by skill than the tip at least today.

If this problem comes back though I'll definitely put on a Lepaul.

Thanks all!