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View Full Version : Deflection of cueball on back cuts

hookster52
05-09-2005, 10:53 AM
hi every one.
how can you determine the deflection of the cue ball path when you are trying to make a back cut on a ball.

dr_dave
05-09-2005, 11:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hookster52:</font><hr> hi every one.
how can you determine the deflection of the cue ball path when you are trying to make a back cut on a ball.<hr /></blockquote>
The 90-degree rule applies for stun shots of any cut angle. The 30-degree rule applies for natural roll shots for cut angles between 1/4 and 3/4 ball-hit. Shots in between and beyond these conditions can be judged by knowing the 90-degree and 30-degree directions. Check out my online articles (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html) and related online discussion threads (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html) for more information.

Regards,
Dr. Dave

Billy_Bob
05-09-2005, 11:56 AM
Learning the 90 degree and 30 degree rules has really helped me. At first, I didn't really get it. (Just reading Dr. Dave's web site.) But I ordered his DVD (not CD) and saw the 30 degree and 90 degree rules being demonstrated.

Then everything clicked. Unfortunately this was one of the last videos I bought. It should have been the first!

Also Jimmy Reid's videos are great to go along with Dr. Dave's. Especially The Art of 8-Ball. He takes you through each shot and explains what he is doing. Seeing this on a video makes everything click (for me at least). This was also one of the last videos I bought and should have been the first.

Note that I did not watch these like a movie. I watched a little, diagramed the shots, then watched more and diagramed the shots, then practiced, practiced, practiced.

I studied these videos, took notes, and made diagrams. I must have hit pause and re-played sections 50 times. Also replayed some stuff in slow motion so I could understand what was happening.

ras314
05-09-2005, 12:00 PM
What is a back cut?

SPetty
05-09-2005, 01:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> What is a back cut?<hr /></blockquote>I think cutting this 1 ball into pocket A is a back cut:
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%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pe7E0%QA8A9
)END

wei table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/)

Something about not having the pocket in your frontal vision when shooting toward the object ball.

ras314
05-09-2005, 02:52 PM
I think I heard that also called a "blind cut" or something on TV. Anyway I don't see how that has anything different to do with the cb path. Wondered if "back cuts" had some connection with "back hand english" which does affect the cb path in sort of a backhanded way. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

May be in Vegas a few days next week, getting plum boring here. Hope to see ya'll there. I think it's actually a bit closer than Terrell.

Alfie
05-09-2005, 03:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> What is a back cut?<hr /></blockquote>Mike Page defined it like this on ASP-
"Place a cueball anywhere on the table. Draw a line through the cueball and straight down the table and another one through the cueball and straight across the table. That cuts the table into four rectangles (one for each corner pocket). Cutting an object ball that is outside a
pocket's rectangle into the pocket is a "back cut."

Like this
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)END
wei table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/)

Troy
05-09-2005, 06:55 PM
Back cut and backhand english are two totally different animals...

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr>Wondered if "back cuts" had some connection with "back hand english" which does affect the cb path in sort of a backhanded way.<hr /></blockquote>

Rod
05-09-2005, 11:30 PM
A back cut has nothing to do with c/b deflection. Please explain what you mean by deflection?

Rod

hookster52
05-11-2005, 05:17 PM
yes that is what i mean by a back cut,, sorry that is the terminology i used for a back cut if there is another word for this kind of cut please tell me.
but how do you determan the deflection of the cueball on a shot like this ???

Rod
05-11-2005, 09:06 PM
By deflection do you mean tangent line? Please explain deflection as it means different things to different people.

Rod

hookster52
05-12-2005, 08:36 PM
hi there Billy Bob ,, i did get the book and DVD also and i think it is great

hookster52
05-13-2005, 04:05 AM
hi there every one ,,hey i think this is great too talk too some pool players and maybe i can learn some stuff .
i love shotting pool but i find it very hard to determan were the cue ball is going too go.
there is so much you have too take in too acount.
how hard ,
how much of the ball your hitting,
how far away,
how much of an angle your cutting,
there really is a lot too this game and im going too learn there are a lot of good people that you get too meet in playing this game.

tateuts
05-13-2005, 05:22 AM
The cueball follows this path with a medium speed center ball hit - look at #6 on Dave's page. The cueball is skidding, not rolling.

http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/bd_articles/index.html

It is up to you as a player to manipulate the angle the cueball takes off of these shots. The first ones to practice are center ball and follow. Then, as you beome proficient at these, practice draw. Then add in the english shots.

Here's a good shot to practice. Try to reliably bring the cueball into each of the diamonds as shown. You will soon see how the various spins change the angle.

Without adding english, you can change the angle by manipulating speed, point of aim, and adding draw or follow.

I practice these shots as part of my routine to stay in stroke. I want to be able to bring the cueball on a very specific path when I have to get around a congested table. Knowing which diamond to aim for greatly simplfies visualizing the path it will take.

WEI (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/)

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%]N3Z7%^C5Q3%_K8Z4%`C5Q7%aL6I4%b`9D5%cS9S3%dM5Z6
)END

Cane
05-13-2005, 06:04 AM
Chris,
I can't read the wei tables (computer is a piece of junk that barely computes), but think I see what you're doing. I have a fairly advanced Tangent Line Drill that I do that, in order to complete the drill, you must send the CB to 8 different spots on the table from the same 15° cut shot. These "spots" are very precise, the lane of travel of the CB being only twice a balls width. The shot angle is always the same, so, in order to successfully complete the drill, you have to learn very good control of speed and spin. It's a difficult drill, but like yours, it will sure keep you in stroke and makes cue ball control in a game seem so much more simple. ANY good tangent line practice will condition a player to just KNOW where the cue ball is going with a stop shot or natural roll, then he can manipulate it to almost any angle off the tangent line that he needs.

Later,
Bob

Scott Lee
05-13-2005, 11:00 AM
hookster52...There are only three elements to consider, in any pool shot. They are angle, speed and spin. ALL shots have all three elements (a "straight-in" shot has NO angle, but you still have to determine that). However, without a repeatable, consistent stroke, it's even more difficult to "cover your ASS"! Work on the quality of your stroke first...cut shots are easy after that! You definitely need a lesson in tangent line physics! Understanding that only top or bottom, on the vertical axis, causes the CB to curve...NOT right or left english (unless you ADD top or bottom, or you elevate your cue, to cause a mini masse')! BTW, a thin cut like you're describing here, is best shot with NO sidespin...which will deliver the most accurate hit, with little or no guesswork!

Scott Lee

ras314
05-13-2005, 11:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cane:</font><hr> Chris,
I can't read the wei tables (computer is a piece of junk that barely computes), but think I see what you're doing.
Bob <hr /></blockquote>

Bob, may not be your computer. I had problems after updating the shockwave reader, wound up having to download a pgm from the shockwave site to remove the old reader from my computer. Windows pgm remover didn't work.

Chris's drill envolves using back spin and english off the end rail to determine what spot to hit on the third rail. Not quite a simple drill.

hookster52
05-13-2005, 06:07 PM
by deflection i mean the path of the cue ball after it hit the object ball

Bob_Jewett
05-13-2005, 08:24 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hookster52:</font><hr> by deflection i mean the path of the cue ball after it hit the object ball <hr /></blockquote>
Hi hookster,

Unfortunately, "deflection" means other things in pool. The phrase you want is "carom angle" or "path of the cue ball". There are some good on-line sources, but if you really want to learn this game, you should get some books. Byrne, Capelle, Fels and others cover these sorts of things. Byrne has a couple of good videos out about the basics if books are too dry.

The path of the cue ball off the object ball is not affected by whether the shot is a back cut or a spot shot or a slice down the rail. What is important is how much of the object ball you hit and what spin the cue ball has on it. And the spin that's important is follow or draw and not side spin. Side spin has little effect until the cue ball hits a cushion.

sneakypapi
05-15-2005, 02:49 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hookster52:</font><hr> by deflection i mean the path of the cue ball after it hit the object ball <hr /></blockquote>

Im sure this was covered in all the posts, but the correct term is Tangent Line is the most commonly used word for the path of the cue ball after contact with the object ball.

The word deflection is used many times for the path of the cueball after applying english typically on long shots. The word deflection has become very popular recently because of the advent of low deflection shafts.