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Pied Piper
05-13-2005, 04:56 AM
Hey all posters. I am a fan and love the Moori tip. But finding them can be tricky. I decided I wanted to just get a tin of 50?? or 25?? any heck, a tin of those things. Does anyone know if Moori has a manufacturer website, or if any one knows a reputable site to purchase a tin of real Moori's? My other question is, what other tips are out there, that in the opinion of this crowd, is comparable to the hit feel, and grip of a Moori? I know this is a very opinion oriented question, but hey, it's fun to argue about the quirks of pool. Also, other than Mueller's catalog, where else can I get a willard tipping tool? 500 bucks seems steep, but hopefully, someone out there knows how to bargain shop, and has another source. thanks all!!!

catscradle
05-13-2005, 05:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pied Piper:</font><hr> Hey all posters. I am a fan and love the Moori tip. But finding them can be tricky. I decided I wanted to just get a tin of 50?? or 25?? any heck, a tin of those things. Does anyone know if Moori has a manufacturer website, or if any one knows a reputable site to purchase a tin of real Moori's? My other question is, what other tips are out there, that in the opinion of this crowd, is comparable to the hit feel, and grip of a Moori? I know this is a very opinion oriented question, but hey, it's fun to argue about the quirks of pool. Also, other than Mueller's catalog, where else can I get a willard tipping tool? 500 bucks seems steep, but hopefully, someone out there knows how to bargain shop, and has another source. thanks all!!! <hr /></blockquote>

I don't know about your other questions, but try Atlas Billiard Supply (http://www.cuestik.com/) for the cue tips. They have a minimum order, but 50 mooris will cover that (and then some).

SplinterHands
05-13-2005, 05:28 AM
This place is good. http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/accessories/tip_maintenance.htm
Forget about that willard thing. Have it done professionally.

1pRoscoe
05-13-2005, 05:46 AM
If you want to order a tin (60) or any type of volume, let me know. I can get them cheaper than you will find anywhere. I have hooked others up at qty of 600 and 1000 and they were very pleased with the price...

1pRoscoe
05-13-2005, 05:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SplinterHands:</font><hr> This place is good. http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/accessories/tip_maintenance.htm
Forget about that willard thing. Have it done professionally. <hr /></blockquote>

Crikey!! That place is EXPENSIVE!!! I can get them for half that!!

Scott Lee
05-13-2005, 06:31 AM
Pied Piper...Not sure exactly why you'd want to buy 50+ Moori tips, unless you're going into the tip replacement business (if you just like the tips, why would you need 50-60? One lasts forever!). If so, you will need a lot more than just Moori tips (which are the second most expensive tips available...the Japanese Kamui tip being the MOST expensive tip). There are many varieties of layered tips out there, as well as lots of single-layer tips too.
Talisman tips are easily available, comparable to Moori, and a lot less in price. Atlas Billiard Supply is an excellent resource for many products connected with cue manufacture and repair. There are several posters here who are 'in the biz' of tip replacement/etc.

Scott Lee

SpiderMan
05-13-2005, 08:10 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1pRoscoe:</font><hr> If you want to order a tin (60) or any type of volume, let me know. I can get them cheaper than you will find anywhere. I have hooked others up at qty of 600 and 1000 and they were very pleased with the price... <hr /></blockquote>

I didn't think Mooris came in tins of 60. Where did you get these?

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
05-13-2005, 08:12 AM
You can buy the Willard tool direct for about $300. I don't have the 1-800# here at work, but if you search previous posts and the archives I believe you'll find it's been discussed several times.

SpiderMan

1pRoscoe
05-13-2005, 08:17 AM
Is it 50 or 60? I thought it was 60...

SpiderMan
05-13-2005, 08:20 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1pRoscoe:</font><hr> Is it 50 or 60? I thought it was 60... <hr /></blockquote>

I thought it was 30. Maybe ABChad can set us straight. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

Troy
05-13-2005, 09:13 AM
Willard's direct is $314.95 plus shipping. That's the basic unit with one size tip holder &amp; collet and one size trimmer. I have multiple size tip holders &amp; collets and three sizes of trimmers.
Their number is 1-800-379-0299.
They will ask you for your "business name".

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> You can buy the Willard tool direct for about $300. I don't have the 1-800# here at work, but if you search previous posts and the archives I believe you'll find it's been discussed several times.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Pied Piper
05-13-2005, 09:17 AM
Thanks. So Willard doesn't sell direct?

Troy
05-13-2005, 09:20 AM
Give them a call. Maybe they will if you give them a "business name".


Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pied Piper:</font><hr> Thanks. So Willard doesn't sell direct? <hr /></blockquote>

Troy
05-13-2005, 09:21 AM
I thought a tin was 50. Most others are boxed in 50.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote 1pRoscoe:</font><hr> Is it 50 or 60? I thought it was 60... <hr /></blockquote>

I thought it was 30. Maybe ABChad can set us straight. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Pied Piper
05-13-2005, 09:30 AM
lol. Understood. Pied Piper Industries will give a call over. Do you know of anywhere else (hopefully internet) that I can see the different size collets, and trimmers? The pool hall that I used to go to, had a Willard there, and often (for cost of tip) would let me use it. Thus how I learned to use the thing. I have no idea what kind of collets they used or trimmers, and now interested in the options, as that could be a great way to start off my billiard career, other than on the long green.

Pied Piper
05-13-2005, 09:35 AM
ohhhh yeah, one other thing. I have about 1/32 of an inch in thickness (sidewall, actual tip extends a little bit beyond that) I have gotten several different comments. One time to replace the tip. Two, it's fine. I have had a bad experience with the tip going too thing and actually causing a mushrooming of the ferrule (last time i took advice from that guy). I was wondering everyones opinion. please note that it is a moori quick tip that is on there. I am going to actually measure the thing once I get out of this horrible place called, work. if anyone wants to pay me 30,000 a year to play pool for 8 hours a day, let me know. Ok I lied, I would take mininum wage. Aww heck, will play pool for food. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan
05-13-2005, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pied Piper:</font><hr> Thanks. So Willard doesn't sell direct? <hr /></blockquote>

My impression was that they do sell direct. Sid V and I both bought ours direct, and they did not ask for any business names. I was quite explicit that I was a user, not a reseller.

I have also ordered accessory and replacement parts directly from them on a couple of occasioins, no problem. This was about 18 months ago.

SpiderMan

Troy
05-13-2005, 09:43 AM
The basic Willard's unit comes with an adjustable collet for 12mm-13.5mm shafts, a tip holder for 13mm &amp; 14mm tips and a trimmer in the same size range.
I have tip holders and collets from 9mm to 14mm. With all three trimmers I can trim from just under 9mm to just over 14mm.
Extra collets are $17.50 each.
Extra tip holders are $17.50 each
Extra trimmers are $32.50 each.

I also have a lathe 'cuz finishing manually is painfully slow and I do more than just tip replacement.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pied Piper:</font><hr> lol. Understood. Pied Piper Industries will give a call over. Do you know of anywhere else (hopefully internet) that I can see the different size collets, and trimmers? The pool hall that I used to go to, had a Willard there, and often (for cost of tip) would let me use it. Thus how I learned to use the thing. I have no idea what kind of collets they used or trimmers, and now interested in the options, as that could be a great way to start off my billiard career, other than on the long green. <hr /></blockquote>

SpiderMan
05-13-2005, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> I thought a tin was 50. Most others are boxed in 50.
<hr /></blockquote>

Most regular tips are sold in cardboard boxes, two layers of 25 (total of 50), arranged in orderly rows and columns. The Mooris I bought came sealed in round tins, rattling around loose, and I believe there were 30 in each can.

SpiderMan

Troy
05-13-2005, 09:50 AM
To prevent ferrule damage, I recommend replacing the tip when the sidewall is about the thickness of a dime.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Pied Piper:</font><hr>I have about 1/32 of an inch in thickness (sidewall, actual tip extends a little bit beyond that)
<hr /></blockquote>

catscradle
05-13-2005, 11:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> The basic Willard's unit comes with an adjustable collet for 12mm-13.5mm shafts, a tip holder for 13mm &amp; 14mm tips and a trimmer in the same size range.
I have tip holders and collets from 9mm to 14mm. With all three trimmers I can trim from just under 9mm to just over 14mm.
Extra collets are $17.50 each.
Extra tip holders are $17.50 each
Extra trimmers are $32.50 each.

I also have a lathe 'cuz finishing manually is painfully slow and I do more than just tip replacement.

Troy
<hr /></blockquote>

I didn't know they made different size trimmers. It's kind of expensive, but might be worth it. I don't like to use it on shafts below about 12.7 mm because I think the angle of the trimmer is too extreme for smaller diameters.
Is the angle of the trimmer less extreme when you get one made for a smaller size shaft?
If it is, do you first have to start with the 13-14 mm trimmer and then move down to the smaller size?

Troy
05-13-2005, 11:51 AM
I wonder how you can say that the angle is too extreme for smaller tips and then ask if the angle changes on smaller trimmers. I've never had a problem with the angle, it's relatively minor.

I didn't "get one made", I bought the trimmers from Willard's. The sizes are 9mm - 11.5mm, 11mm - 12.5 and 12mm - 13.5.

I start with the trimmer most applicable to the starting tip diameter and go from there. For example, I had a guy who wanted a Talisman Pro on his snooker shaft. The tip started at about 13.8mm and the shaft was about 9.5mm. I started with the largest trimmer and slowly worked down to the shaft size. Final work, burnishing, shaping was done on the lathe.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr>I didn't know they made different size trimmers. It's kind of expensive, but might be worth it. I don't like to use it on shafts below about 12.7 mm because I think the angle of the trimmer is too extreme for smaller diameters.
Is the angle of the trimmer less extreme when you get one made for a smaller size shaft?
If it is, do you first have to start with the 13-14 mm trimmer and then move down to the smaller size?
<hr /></blockquote>

catscradle
05-13-2005, 11:57 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> I wonder how you can say that the angle is too extreme for smaller tips and then ask if the angle changes on smaller trimmers. I've never had a problem with the angle, it's relatively minor.
... <hr /></blockquote>
Maybe I didn't state it well. The trimmer produces the same angle on a smaller diameter tip as on a larger diameter tip, but to me that angle seems too extreme for the smaller diameter tip. What I was wondering was if the trimmer purposely designed for the smaller diameter tip was designed to produce less of an angle.
Does that make more sense?

SpiderMan
05-13-2005, 01:04 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote catscradle:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> I wonder how you can say that the angle is too extreme for smaller tips and then ask if the angle changes on smaller trimmers. I've never had a problem with the angle, it's relatively minor.
... <hr /></blockquote>
Maybe I didn't state it well. The trimmer produces the same angle on a smaller diameter tip as on a larger diameter tip, but to me that angle seems too extreme for the smaller diameter tip. What I was wondering was if the trimmer purposely designed for the smaller diameter tip was designed to produce less of an angle.
Does that make more sense?
<hr /></blockquote>
The angle determines what range of diameters a single trimmer can handle. For example, if the cutting edge of the trimmer is 3/4" long, and you want one trimmer to cover a range of diameters that varies by 1.5 mm (such as 12.0 to 13.5 mm), then you need to cut a sidewall angle of approximately 2.25 degrees. If you wanted the angle to be shallower, you would need a larger number of trimmers to cover the same range.

Since the published range of each trimmer is the same (1.5 mm), I would expect that they have kept the angle constant.

You are correct in your assessment that, as the tip diameter becomes smaller, this narrowing effect becomes more noticeable if the tip height doesn't change. This is because the amount of diameter narrowing becomes a greater portion of the total diameter. On the other hand, for a smaller-diameter tip, you should be trimming it shorter as well. If you shorten in ratio to the smaller diameter, then everything remains proportionate and there should be no issues of dimension or perception.

SpiderMan

Troy
05-13-2005, 02:58 PM
Bingo !!!
Cut down the height in proportion to the diameter and the trim angle becomes almost transparent, almost.

Troy
[/b]<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr>The angle determines what range of diameters a single trimmer can handle. For example, if the cutting edge of the trimmer is 3/4" long, and you want one trimmer to cover a range of diameters that varies by 1.5 mm (such as 12.0 to 13.5 mm), then you need to cut a sidewall angle of approximately 2.25 degrees. If you wanted the angle to be shallower, you would need a larger number of trimmers to cover the same range.

Since the published range of each trimmer is the same (1.5 mm), I would expect that they have kept the angle constant.

You are correct in your assessment that, as the tip diameter becomes smaller, this narrowing effect becomes more noticeable if the tip height doesn't change. This is because the amount of diameter narrowing becomes a greater portion of the total diameter. On the other hand, for a smaller-diameter tip, you should be trimming it shorter as well. If you shorten in ratio to the smaller diameter, then everything remains proportionate and there should be no issues of dimension or perception.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

LJC_Cues
05-13-2005, 08:42 PM
Moori's come in a tin of 60. Yes most other tips come in a box of 50. I dont know why moori does this but they do. I used a williards at first I just used the shaver that came with it that seemed to work great. If a person had a smaller diameter shaft it did the job it would leave a little lip but nothing sand paper and drill wouldnt cure. Most people that I encounter use 12mm and up so the one shaver that came with it worked great! I have only gotten 1 shaft under 12mm and that was the other week the guy wanted the shaft tapered down to 10mm. I have a lathe now and have had it for while nothing beats it! But if you just doing tips for youself and some friends the williards will work great!!