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View Full Version : $1000 for cue OK, $20 for tip not ok!



Billy_Bob
05-13-2005, 08:25 AM
I find it funny that many players have no problem spending $500 or $1000 for a cue, but scream like a stuck pig at spending $20 for a tip.

Some players thinking...
Spend least amount of money = Tip end of cue (tip, ferrule, shaft)
and
Spend most amount of money = Butt end of cue


My thinking....
Spend most amount of money = Tip end of cue (tip, ferrule, shaft)
and
Spend least amount of money = Butt end of cue

1pRoscoe
05-13-2005, 08:31 AM
Especially considering how long those $20 tips last...

bustah360
05-13-2005, 08:46 AM
LOL! that's funny, just imagine the squealing you'll get when choose to pay for moori tip. That's like $40 for the tip alone, let alone the work.

Perk
05-13-2005, 08:51 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bustah360:</font><hr> LOL! that's funny, just imagine the squealing you'll get when choose to pay for moori tip. That's like $40 for the tip alone, let alone the work. <hr /></blockquote>

Around here its $25 for a Moori put on.

Billy_Bob
05-13-2005, 09:05 AM
Moori III tips are $10 at the below link. I will admit that I hesitated and did a lot of thinking before ever forking out more than $5 for a tip. But I now feel you get what you pay for, so have no problem paying $10 or $20 for a tip (if I feel it is a better tip that is).

I also payed more for a Tiger breaking tip. Forget how much, but am glad I did. This tip is designed for breaking.

Atlas Billiards Moori Tips...
http://www.cuestik.com/cuestik/catalog.cfm?dest=dir&amp;linkid=389&amp;linkon=subsection

Rod
05-13-2005, 09:13 AM
Well, a buck buys me a good WB tip. No need to spend 20. I get your drift but there is no reason to spend twenty bucks on an over rated/overpriced tip. The butt is just something to hold on to.

BTW for the people that ruin their tips, excess sanding and roughing etc, they should be charged 50 for an act of stupidity. LOL

Rod

Billy_Bob
05-13-2005, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>BTW for the people that ruin their tips, excess sanding and roughing etc, they should be charged 50 for an act of stupidity. <hr /></blockquote>

At first I followed the advice of locals to frequently tip tap, bang on tip with file, etc. My tip changed when I did this. Not good.

Now I just lightly sand with a sandpaper shaper if my tip is starting to get slick and do nothing else. What I have now is a tip which *always* has the same consistent surface condition. I can count on my tip *always* responding the same way. This of course allows me to get very consistent in my play. Like last night I drew the cue ball back exactly 2 inches to get on the "right side" of my next shot, but not be blocked by a nearby ball.

I can only learn to do this with a consistent tip with a consistent amount of chalk applied which equals a consistent amount of friction applied to the cue ball.

Scott Lee
05-13-2005, 09:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>BTW for the people that ruin their tips, excess sanding and roughing etc, they should be charged 50 for an act of stupidity. <hr /></blockquote>

At first I followed the advice of locals to frequently tip tap, bang on tip with file, etc. My tip changed when I did this. Not good.

Now I just lightly sand with a sandpaper shaper if my tip is starting to get slick and do nothing else. What I have now is a tip which *always* has the same consistent surface condition. I can count on my tip *always* responding the same way. This of course allows me to get very consistent in my play. Like last night I drew the cue ball back exactly 2 inches to get on the "right side" of my next shot, but not be blocked by a nearby ball.

I can only learn to do this with a consistent tip with a consistent amount of chalk applied which equals a consistent amount of friction applied to the cue ball.

<hr /></blockquote>

Billy Bob...Rod is 100% correct! One thing, though, the apparent 'slickness' of the tip has nothing to do with whether or not it will "hold" chalk. I never pick, sand, shape, or anything else to my tips...and they last for YEARS! I also break with my playing cue, and play almost every day. Chalk will adher to any decent tip (smooth or rough doesn't matter), as long as it is applied correctly!
More miscues are a result of a poor stroke, rather than a "too smooth" tip, or poor chalking. The biggest problem I run into, is people who don't know how to chalk properly.
When do you need chalk? When you are striking the CB off-center. At that point the EDGE of the tip is hitting the EDGE of the CB. To make a smooth, accurate hit, you need a thin layer of chalk around the EDGE of the tip! Funniest thing that I see, is a guy taking great pains to chalk his tip properly, and then sliding his looped bridge off the end of the cue...effectively removing the chalk from the edge of the tip! LOL

Scott Lee

pooltchr
05-13-2005, 10:05 AM
Or how about the guy who will spend thousands on the cue, another $40 to change the tip when he gets it, but can't see any reason to pay a couple of hundred bucks to have someone teach him how to use it? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Steve

ceebee
05-13-2005, 10:26 AM
Amen there Pooltchr... it's a phenomenon generallly called "stupidity".

Tiger Woods (absolutely great golf player) was taking lessons right up to the Masters he won, just a few weeks ago. That is a good example of someone using their head for something other than a hat rack.

Pool players generally want to learn via osmosis, which takes a long time or maybe never. Some Pool Players don't have a clue about tips or ferrules &amp; they won't ask for the info or read the info that's posted.

Scott Lee
05-13-2005, 10:35 AM
Awwww, c'mon Steve! EVERYBODY knows it's ALL in having the right cue/shaft/tip! LOL If you spend enough, can you buy a cue that shoots by itself? Nope...not even if you spend $250,000 (which, I think, is the most ever paid for a cue)!
I'm thinking a smart cuemaker (in association with some instructor) would start selling his cues with at least an introductory lesson from a qualified teacher! That would, at the very least, raise awareness! LOL But, hey, there would likely be nothing in it for them...other than giving back to the sport by educating people who purchase their cues!

Scott

pooltchr
05-13-2005, 11:00 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> can you buy a cue that shoots by itself? <hr /></blockquote>

Don't tell me you haven't seen Randy's "self shooting" cue!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Maybe we should market a "smart cue"! I'm sure we could find some buyers!

See ya in October!
STeve

Scott Lee
05-13-2005, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Don't tell me you haven't seen Randy's "self shooting" cue!!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

STeve <hr /></blockquote>

Now Steve...you KNOW you have to [censored] that thing, and THEN pull the trigger. That's hardly shooting by itself! LOL
Betcha that spring would wear out a lot faster than the tip!
LMAO

Scott /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Voodoo Daddy
05-13-2005, 12:03 PM
Reminds me of the guy that spends $450 on a custom fitted driver but uses a $22 putter. The shaft is <font color="red"> 85% </font color> of the cues playability...ferrule material is personal preference &lt;I like Ivory/Micarta&gt; along with tips &lt;I've used Triangle for 25 years&gt; but I'm almost willing to give the layered tips a chance. My priceless Searing Cue has a $10 Triangle tip on it...HAHAHAHAHA! Not that $$$ has anything to do with it, I just like triangle.

LJC_Cues
05-13-2005, 09:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rod:</font><hr>
BTW for the people that ruin their tips, excess sanding and roughing etc, they should be charged 50 for an act of stupidity. LOL

Rod
<hr /></blockquote>


I love these people these are the guys/girls that play league once a week and mis cue once and take half thier tip off!!! Great for me!! Bad for them. I also noticed the only people that do mess thier tips up with overly sanding shaping are the ones that like the expensive tips!! God I love them!!!

Popcorn
05-13-2005, 09:41 PM
Based on the condescending nature of many of the post made on here by the ones who call themselves teachers, I would not be surprised players may duck them when it comes to lessons. I have never formally taken any pool lessons but I have taken music lessons. My experiences were for the most part bad till I found the right teacher, most just were not any good. Pool teachers have a pretty bad rep in general. Most are just players trying to supplement their income and not really teachers. I know one guy who is a champion player who actually chases people out of the room bugging them to take lessons, who wants to hear all that crap every time they come in. If someone doesn't want your services that is their choice, but treat them with respect rather then insults and they may in the future. I think a reality check may be in order as well, your not teaching medicine or future scientists. It's pool, a meaningless recreational pastime and not everyone cares that much, even the ones with $1000. cues, some people just like to buy nice things. One of your fellow teachers in this thread refers to people as stupid, I rest my case.

Nostroke
05-13-2005, 10:16 PM
I dont know a whole lot of players who had lessons but those who did didnt seem to progress any faster. I know i had a couple that didnt help at all.

Nostalgia
05-14-2005, 04:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> I dont know a whole lot of players who had lessons but those who did didnt seem to progress any faster. I know i had a couple that didnt help at all. <hr /></blockquote>
And then there's guys like me who take a couple of lessons and their game turns completely around. It depends on the how willing the student is to learn and how good the teacher is at teaching.

-Joe

pooltchr
05-14-2005, 06:30 AM
And that is precicely why I don't tell anyone I can fix their game. I let it be known around town that I am a teacher, but I wait for potential students to come to me, not the other way around. I can't help anyone unless they are motivated to learn. I figure if they come to me, they are at least motivated enough to learn enough to decide if lessons are what they want. I don't tell anyone that I am the magic wand that will make their game better. Any advertising comes from former students via word of mouth.

I was impressed enough with the whole course that the BCA instructor program offers, that I made the committment to work at becoming an instructor myself. Many of my students have increased their skill levels as a result of the course, just as I did after taking the course from Randy.

Bottom line is if someone doesn't think they need lessons, I probably can't help them anyway, so why waste my time and their money? If someone wants to learn something, I will be glad to teach them everything I can about the game. And if I have a weekend with no students lined up, it just means I have some time to spend with my family.

Steve

Fran Crimi
05-14-2005, 06:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> I dont know a whole lot of players who had lessons but those who did didnt seem to progress any faster. I know i had a couple that didnt help at all. <hr /></blockquote>

Hi Nostroke,

Well sometimes it's the instructor who isn't zeroing in on the player's problem and sometimes it's the player who suddenly realizes that this whole 'getting better' thing takes a bit of pain and suffering on the practice table, and doesn't want to go through it.

I'd like to take on the challenge of changing your mind. Let me take a look at your game and let's see if your problem was the teacher or the student. Are you up for it?

Fran

BLACKHEART
05-14-2005, 07:14 AM
By the way Scott, how did that tip work out, that I put on your Q????...JER

Sid_Vicious
05-14-2005, 07:16 AM
"More miscues are a result of a poor stroke, rather than a "too smooth" tip"

AMEN! I'd accent that statement by saying "The majority rather than "most miscues." Fix the stroke, don't blame the tip...sid~~~doesn't pic and scuff tips either

Keith Talent
05-14-2005, 08:23 AM
I think it's kind of nutty that anyone would try to make do with a tip that's not quite right, considering that $20 or so will fix you up for a few months, at least. Hell, when I was playing tennis regularly, I used to snap strings so fast I'd have to cough up $30 for a stringing job every week. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Billy_Bob
05-14-2005, 08:24 AM
I also find it interesting that there seems to be two different extremes in the pool playing world.

Those who believe that proper stroke/instruction is all you need to play your best - any cue/tip will do.

Then those who believe the best cue will improve their game - pay no attention to stroke, practice, etc.

But I don't see many players who incorporate *both*. i.e. The best equipment *and* the best instruction. I think you should not only learn about playing the game, but also learn all you can about the equipment. Then use the best instruction and the best equipment.

As someone said... "The difference between an excellent pool player and the best pool player is very small. Any tiny advantage at that level becomes valuable."

Popcorn
05-14-2005, 11:20 AM
I don't know about that, most anyone will benefit from proper lessons, just not everyone wants them and that's fine. Actually, most people just want to come in have a cold beer and knock the balls around with their friends. Lessons require a little bit of a commitment to practice and most don't really have that much interest. I like to get on the billiard table once and a while and it never fails if one of the billiard nuts are around they come over and begin telling me how I'm shooting the wrong shots and so on. I don't really care I just want to bang the balls around for a while. To be honest, I don't think most of these self appointed instructors that haunt many rooms, We have all run into them, are even that sincere, they just like to hear themselves talk.

SPetty
05-14-2005, 01:35 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr>Tiger Woods (absolutely great golf player) was taking lessons right up to the Masters he won, just a few weeks ago.<hr /></blockquote>And yet, Tiger missed the cut this week for the first time in seven years.

"It was a very frustrating round because I couldn't quite find where I needed to put the club in the right position to make a golf swing," Woods said after his 72 left him at 1-over 141. "I was just trying to fly by night and kind of bandage my way through the finish. But I just didn't quite have it today."

SPetty
05-14-2005, 01:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> Amen there Pooltchr... it's a phenomenon generally called "stupidity".

Some Pool Players don't have a clue about tips or ferrules &amp; they won't ask for the info or read the info that's posted. <hr /></blockquote>Yeah, they're so stupid, "They don't know what they don't know"! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Scott Lee
05-14-2005, 02:54 PM
JER...I love it! Thanks again!

Scott

Scott Lee
05-14-2005, 03:02 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> Yeah, they're so stupid, "They don't know what they don't know"! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif <hr /></blockquote>

SPetty...That phrase doe not imply stupidity! More like misunderstanding or confusion, for lack of information!
BTW, you owe Carl $1...royalties you know! LOL He GAVE me permission to quote him though, at n/c! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott

Drop1
05-14-2005, 06:44 PM
I paid $15.00 for my cue. I screw up all the time.Its not the cues fault,but maybe the fact that its bent,and I'm full of beer, looking at girls. Some day I plan to put a tip on my cue,but then I will need chalk,instead of chewing the end,and then I will start trying to have a good stroke,and take myself like really important,and miss the fun, the mystery of a good game in Mexico. Talk the talk,walk the walk,and keep on walking and talking.There are no good teachers,just good students.

pooltchr
05-15-2005, 05:17 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr>Tiger Woods (absolutely great golf player) was taking lessons right up to the Masters he won, just a few weeks ago.<hr /></blockquote>And yet, Tiger missed the cut this week for the first time in seven years.

"It was a very frustrating round because I couldn't quite find where I needed to put the club in the right position to make a golf swing," Woods said after his 72 left him at 1-over 141. "I was just trying to fly by night and kind of bandage my way through the finish. But I just didn't quite have it today." <hr /></blockquote>

And after he "bandaged his way through the finish", who would you suppose he went to to help correct the problem.

If I had a serious cut, I would bandage it, and then get to a doctor as quickly as possible.

Steve

Sid_Vicious
05-15-2005, 05:30 AM
Tiger's falling into a quagmire of allowing himself to lose his swing all because of over questioning himself about needing lessons. IMO, he'd be better going back to Tiger's Game, the one he came in with, and forgetting about all these lessons. "It's time to become the player you've studied to be, and quit the "lesson game." Hell everyone has an opinion about your game, just let them inside your head and see where your game goes, be it golf or any other game you have a natural talent for. Over analysis ain't the ticket...sid

Chopstick
05-15-2005, 05:32 AM
Why SPetty, I didn't know you followed golf. At the course guys ask me what my handicap is and I just say "Golf". /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

As far as cues, tips, and strokes are concerned, you guys have got it all wrong. It's not the cue or the player that's at fault. It's the balls! They're the ones doing all the messin' up. Some balls just don't know how to play. When that happens to me I just go get some more. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

ChopStick~~~~Slightly used balls for sale. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Popcorn
05-15-2005, 10:56 AM
Do teachers ever say, "Don't worry about it, you just had a bad day", or are they always compelled to tinker. Tinkering can often cause more promblems then it fixes. Once a player begins to tinker and second guess themselves they can become complete mental cases even among the professional ranks. Being a teacher or coach to these kinds of people can be very touchy, a major slump can be right around the corner, especially playing at a very high level of competition.

DickLeonard
05-15-2005, 11:45 AM
Steve I played Arthur"Babe"Cranfield an afternoon and evening exhibition in Hudson NY his one time hometown in the afternoon match he ran 115 and out.

Then we went to "Fatso's" restaurant for a 2 hour feast and back for the evening match. The "Babe" opened with a 74 and I came back with 87 and "Babe" ran a 70 and I ran a 63 and out. The Babe was amazed that I did it with a 17 oz housecue. I used Willie Hoppe's trick of scouting the housecues for a good hitting tip. Willie would take the tip and when he needed a tip, he had a good hitting tip to put on his cue. I just kept the housecue with the tip on it and played wth it.####

ceebee
05-15-2005, 12:58 PM
Here some comments made by Tiger Woods in April, about his instructor Hank Haney.

quote&gt;&gt;&gt;
"As for the state of his game, Woods is encouraged by the work he has done with instructor Hank Haney.

"Iím just working on the things I need to work on," he said. "Iím excited about the things Iíve done this year to get everything organized in my game, because I took some steps backwards in order to go forward, to make some giant leaps forward."

Woods still receives regular feedback on his game from his father, Earl, but has also liked input from Haney.

"I think itís just a different philosophy with the golf swing," he said. "I really enjoy the ideas of the golf swing that way. Itís certainly been an eye-opening experience to look at the different ways you can swing. Iíve taken lessons from just about everybody, and certainly his has been very different."

Tiger is one of the greatest at his endeavor, yet he isn't against learning more. Missing the cut after 142 tries at Cottonwood Valley, was disconserting, but the champion will be back. Hopefully we can all learn from the trials of Champions &amp; ourselves.

Voodoo Daddy
05-15-2005, 06:30 PM
In other words...dont fix what isnt broken. Hey, I wanna 2 hour fest with Dick too, HAHAHAHA!!

poolturtle
05-15-2005, 07:10 PM
I think the thing that cracks me up the most, besides the guys bragging about their "own personal cue", is that guys that "know how to shoot pool" and use house cues never check the tip. I've seen guys take a cue across the room to the dance floor to roll it for straightness, but they won't take the 2 seconds it takes to check a tip.

Then they gripe about the dead cue ball.

SpiderMan
05-16-2005, 07:06 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BLACKHEART:</font><hr> By the way Scott, how did that tip work out, that I put on your Q????...JER <hr /></blockquote>

Scott, did you finally see a Talisman separation, or was this for a different cue?

SpiderMan

Scott Lee
05-16-2005, 09:40 AM
Marty...I have NEVER had a Talisman tip delaminate...EVER!
Of course, I don't do all that BS that causes those problems. One of my Cognoscenti shafts had a weird "tink", that I thought was because of a loose ferrule, so I was going to have JER replace it. The tip on it was an old Moori (it was not one of the shafts you did for me a few years ago), that under close examination had 'chipped' just a little on one edge, where it was glued to the ferrule. This was really hard to "see", but, again, that's why I have pros like you and JER do my tip work! LOL JER put on a new tip of his choosing, along with a pad, and in literally 5 minutes, guess what? Voila...no more 'tink'! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BTW, this was the shaft that I tried to carry on the airlines (by itself, no butt, no case), and they refused because it was a SERIOUS weapon! Geez...this 'airline security' thing is getting pretty carried away, imo. Now the headlines in the media talk about how security is so much tighter, but there has been no improvement in 'capturing' suspected terrorists, and airline safety is no better than it was. /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Scott

HALHOULE
10-28-2005, 09:20 PM
A THOUSAND DOLLAR CUE DOES NOT MAKE BALLS, ANY MORE THAN A CUE TIP DOES. WHAT A WASTE OF MONEY, TIME, EFFORT, AND JUDGEMENT. TIME WELL SPENT MIGHT BE TO PROGRESS OUT OF LEAGUE AND AMATEUR PLAY.

HALHOULE
10-28-2005, 09:40 PM
AND HERE I THOUGHT YOU LEFT THE BILLIARDS DIGEST BOARD. WHAT HAPPENED TO BRING YOU BACK?

simplification
10-28-2005, 10:10 PM
I COULDN'T AGREE MORE. THE CUE DOESN'T SHOOT THE BALLS, THE PLAYER DOES. INCIDENTALLY, IT HELPS A TAD BIT TO KNOW HOW TO AIM.

wolfdancer
10-28-2005, 10:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well sometimes it's the instructor who isn't zeroing in on the player's problem and sometimes it's the player who suddenly realizes that this whole 'getting better' thing takes a bit of pain and suffering on the practice table, and doesn't want to go through it. <hr /></blockquote>

some instructors don't know how to adjust their teaching regimen to fit the student...but I think more often the problem lies with the student's expectations. He, or she, thinks there will be instant results...but if you have played long enough, to ingrain a setup, stroke, style...
To incorporate something new into your sport, you will usually take a few steps backward first, as you "unlearn" what you were doing wrong, and replace it with the new.
Chuck Hogan believes that it takes 21 days, of daily practice to do this. I've also seen this 21 days idea, quoted elsewhere.
I tried to change my golf swing once, when I was playing pretty good golf.....my game suffered, and I wasn't willing to work thru the change.....it's another reason why I have great admiration for Tiger, as he searches for that perfect swing....

simplification
10-28-2005, 10:14 PM
GOOD EVENING MR. HOULE. IT'S WONDERFUL TO SEE YOU BACK ONLINE AGAIN. BRIAN (INDY)

GolfProTj
10-29-2005, 04:57 AM
As a golf professional I firmly beleive that if a person wants to change there swing or stroke(pool), It does take time, You will get worse at first but if you stick with it, The rewards are really worth it.

Tj

stickman
10-29-2005, 08:47 AM
Your idea works for me. I bought a 60" cue with a high quality shaft, a plain jane butt, put on a IvorX ferrule, and a Moori med tip.

Ralph S.
10-29-2005, 09:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote simplification:</font><hr> GOOD EVENING MR. HOULE. IT'S WONDERFUL TO SEE YOU BACK ONLINE AGAIN. BRIAN (INDY) <hr /></blockquote>

Would you by chance happen to be Brian Groce?

wolfdancer
10-29-2005, 10:55 AM
TJ, I had the same problem of finding a good golf instructor, that I did when i took up pool. my first "teaching pro" PGA certified, could not solve my banana ball....so he cut a hook face into my new driver and 3 wood....didn't help, and ruined the clubs in the process.
the next guy was way past 70, and had won the Philippino Open, more then once....he might have been a good teacher, but when I figured out i could outdrive him by 50+ yds...decided I couldn't learn anything from him. The next guy shouldn't have ever been teaching golf....he had come up with some spring teaching aid, that came off of a truck....and I still can't figure out...what it was supposed to do. By the time i found a good instructor...it was too late. I had a workable swing, that allowed me to get around in the low 80's, high 70's rarely....but had more moving parts then necessary. As the guy noted after I hit a few good 7 irons....I had good hand-eye coordination, and added, I'd have to, with that swing.
I'm rereading Ernest Jones right now...and found something that I disagree with....he stresses feel with the hands, with the main grip, both thumbs and forefingers.
I find I get a better release, by"holding" the club with the last two or three fingers of my left hand????
I'm still searching for that perfect swing myself.......