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sack316
05-20-2005, 08:12 AM
hey all, hope this isn't some form of blasphemy asking about poker on a pool message board! But anyway, I've been learning and playing alot over the last few months, and have actually gotten to where it's a decent little second income playing the smaller tournament and cash tables (anywhere from 5-20 people or so). Now I'm starting to delve into the big ones as sort of the next step of training before i get to be a millionaire off this thing (yeah, right). But I was wanting to ask anyone that maybe plays alot on here more what their strategy is in the beginning of the larger ones (upwards of a thousand people). I'm stuck between playing riskier in the beginning to try to build up a stack for later, or being very conservative only playing big hands to stay longer and then make up ground later. any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Deeman2
05-20-2005, 09:59 AM
Sack,

My feeling, because of the style of play developed in the free internet rooms you won't have a chance playing conservative in a large open tournament. You can only play aggressively and hope the cards fall for you at first. If not, they will eat your blinds up. These people now go all in on 7-2 off suits as soon as with a high pair. I don't know how much skill is left in the game as everybody bluffs on dime bag hand and you just have to be fortunate enough to catch the best cards at your table until you get a good stack.

Good Luck....

Deeman
is chin drooling a tell?

sack316
05-20-2005, 10:14 AM
thanks for the reply deeman, I was kinda on the same train of thought there with ya. The crazy way all these people are playing, I feel more comfortable playing in a room full of seasoned pros than I do in some of these tournaments. The smaller one's aren't so bad because the difference in chips is close enough to catch up with good play in biding my time and picking my spots. It's kind of sad though that on days I feel like I am playing bad and making stupid decisions that I'll do very well, and on days I feel like I'mplaying like a champ I'll go broke to some guy that sucks out on me with something stupid. Oh well, 'tis the nature of the game I guess.
Again, thanks for your advice, and hopefully I'll get some good places in some of the big ones

JPB
05-20-2005, 11:04 AM
I am not playing much now, and am not a fan of poker tournaments. but based on your two posts here, I would suggest you make sure you understand the theory of how the chips in a poker tournament change value. I don't know what you have read, but if you haven't you must read sklansky's book on tournaments. Harringtons new 2 volume book is also a must read, although I have not read it yet. I am saying this because your 2d post gives me pause. Whenever you say "I can beat tougher players but not bad ones...." it means you are doing something wrong. It could be one of a number of things, but it definitely means your game is not where it can be.

sack316
05-20-2005, 12:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JPB:</font><hr> I am not playing much now, and am not a fan of poker tournaments. but based on your two posts here, I would suggest you make sure you understand the theory of how the chips in a poker tournament change value. I don't know what you have read, but if you haven't you must read sklansky's book on tournaments. Harringtons new 2 volume book is also a must read, although I have not read it yet. I am saying this because your 2d post gives me pause. Whenever you say "I can beat tougher players but not bad ones...." it means you are doing something wrong. It could be one of a number of things, but it definitely means your game is not where it can be. <hr /></blockquote>

I do agree with you in that my game is not where it can be... but it is good. And sorry if I said what I said wrong, I did not mean that I cannot beat bad players and can always beat good ones. I can win or lose to any of them anytime, be they better or worse than I am. My comment was more along the lines of what dee was saying with some people doing just insanely crazy things like going all in pre flop with 2-7 or something like that. Actually even the pros will say that playing with a seasoned veteran of the game is easier than playing alot of the new amateurs or "internet" players... based on the fact that someone that plays by the instruction of the books you mentioned or others, you will pretty well know what and how they are playing with what a good bit of the time... as opposed to someone who plays very loosely with almost anything being very hard to read. Thats what I meant with my last post.
But I do appreciate your advice, and do need to do more studying up on pot odds and values. I will also be looking into those books as well, and also if you happen to be interested, Howard Lederer's DVD is a pretty good one as well.

ryushen21
05-20-2005, 12:46 PM
There are loads of theories on how you should play a tournament. Like Deeman said, the internet craze has created a lot of idiots who will go in on marginal hands. I can't speak for anyone else but i have a pretty simple strategy that i use in any tournament that i play. If you've seen Rounders you already know it. "Move in when you have the best of it and back out when you don't." Of course there are circumstances when you may play a marginal hand to see if you catch something, like when you are in the big blind. A good deal of it depends on feel. You may get killer starting cards and then get cracked by some idiot who calls with a crap hand and catches a boat. It's all live and learn.

JPB
05-20-2005, 01:43 PM
"Actually even the pros will say that playing with a seasoned veteran of the game is easier than playing alot of the new amateurs or "internet" players..."


When they say this they are whining. It isn't true. All the new players are why some players are making a lot of money. Sure there are some bad beats. Maybe it is true that sometimes better players are easier to read, but I still don't think so. How much do you think you can read a great player who has both good feel and an understanding of the game? You aren't going to read them better and are going to make more mistakes against them. When players say stuff like this it often means they can't adjust. They have one gear that they play in. When the game conditions allow, they can win. They look for a certain game and when they find it they win. The best players can win whatever the game conditions. But they constantly adjust and play different styles.

sliprock
05-21-2005, 11:23 AM
Early in a tournament, I'll play lots of hands that I won't play later when the bets get higher. Most of our tournaments start with anywhere from 3000-7000 in chips with blinds starting at 10/20. You can see lots of flops for little of nothing and pick up some extra chips on hands that would be folded in the later stages of the tournament. I don't know what the books say, but this style works for me. I'm kinda loose at the start and tighten up a little as the tournament advances. Either way, you have to outrun the idiots that play anything. I've been busted twice in the last little bit by Q/2 offsuit. One time I had pocket kings and the flop comes 2,Q,2

Troy
05-21-2005, 12:28 PM
My first no limit tournament had 140 players. I went in thinking I'd be happy to finish in the top half and played for survival. I made the final table 6th in chips, about 25,000, with the ante at 600 and blinds at 2000 &amp; 4000. A few hands later 9th went out. A few more hands later I was in the big blind (in for 6400), on the button, holding Ad-8d and figured this was my chance. I went all in. The only call had J-J. The flop came A-Jd-8 but I had many outs (A's over boat draw &amp; runner/runner flush draw). The turn was another diamond, but the river was no help. I went out 8th, but felt fine with my play.

In short, I'd play early for survival.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr> hey all, hope this isn't some form of blasphemy asking about poker on a pool message board! But anyway, I've been learning and playing alot over the last few months, and have actually gotten to where it's a decent little second income playing the smaller tournament and cash tables (anywhere from 5-20 people or so). Now I'm starting to delve into the big ones as sort of the next step of training before i get to be a millionaire off this thing (yeah, right). But I was wanting to ask anyone that maybe plays alot on here more what their strategy is in the beginning of the larger ones (upwards of a thousand people). I'm stuck between playing riskier in the beginning to try to build up a stack for later, or being very conservative only playing big hands to stay longer and then make up ground later. any advice would be greatly appreciated! <hr /></blockquote>

DickLeonard
05-21-2005, 01:45 PM
Are you playing with a house dealer if not your at the dealers mercy.You can still be playing with a crooked house dealer.####

Kato
05-23-2005, 07:18 PM
I'm reading Harringtons first book right now. I'm really enjoying it. I had a vague idea of the math from reading other books and rags but it's not nearly in depth. I've been having great success playing in 8 man home games in recent months. Doesn't amount to a hill of beans but a couple extra hundred a month.

R.J.~~~ain't no good but learning quickly.

sack316
05-24-2005, 01:23 AM
thanks for all the responses guys. I've been diving into alot of 20 person tournaments and having some good success there since there is time to read how the players are playing.I've also been working on calculating the pot odds and getting good prices on calls and such, and doing pretty well with it I think (placed in the money about 75% of the time today!).
I don't know if any of you players get this too, but at some points I feel like I fall into a zone, much like in pool when I can visualize everything and just do it. It's like I can see through people's cards and know exactly how to outfox them, or even I've been just calling cards coming out (like Daniel Negraneu [sp.?] does. Of course nowhere to his level, but it's so nice to catch that feeling when you can do no wrong. Hopefully I'll keep catching it more often than not!
But again, thank you all for your advice!

JPB
05-24-2005, 08:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr> thanks for all the responses guys. I've been diving into alot of 20 person tournaments and having some good success there since there is time to read how the players are playing.I've also been working on calculating the pot odds and getting good prices on calls and such, and doing pretty well with it I think (placed in the money about 75% of the time today!).
I don't know if any of you players get this too, but at some points I feel like I fall into a zone, much like in pool when I can visualize everything and just do it. It's like I can see through people's cards and know exactly how to outfox them, or even I've been just calling cards coming out (like Daniel Negraneu [sp.?] does. Of course nowhere to his level, but it's so nice to catch that feeling when you can do no wrong. Hopefully I'll keep catching it more often than not!
But again, thank you all for your advice! <hr /></blockquote>


finishing in the money 75% of the time is extraordinary. It won't last forever. But you are doing a lot right to do that.

pooljunkie73
05-24-2005, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr>I don't know if any of you players get this too, but at some points I feel like I fall into a zone, much like in pool when I can visualize everything and just do it. It's like I can see through people's cards and know exactly how to outfox them, or even I've been just calling cards coming out (like Daniel Negraneu [sp.?] does. Of course nowhere to his level, but it's so nice to catch that feeling when you can do no wrong. Hopefully I'll keep catching it more often than not!
But again, thank you all for your advice! <hr /></blockquote>

It looks like you are well on your way, Sack. I have gotten into a zone like that a couple of times playing poker. I had back to back payouts of $12,000 and $6,000 in multi table tournaments. No greater feeling in the world.

Kent

sack316
05-24-2005, 11:27 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JPB:</font><hr>

finishing in the money 75% of the time is extraordinary. It won't last forever. But you are doing a lot right to do that. <hr /></blockquote>

thanks, and yeah I realize that was an extraordinary day right there, haven't had too many days to that level. But when it is going like that, man what a feeling it is!