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View Full Version : Hohmann wins BCA Title



Harold Acosta
05-21-2005, 06:21 PM
I would hate to think that the format change to races to 7 might have had some impact on Johnny's state of mind for the Finals. Apparently Johnny did not play his best against Hohmann and lost 7-0 for the Championship.

I'm certain many people are dissapointed. TV has once again wrecked our beloved sport. The almighty dollar! /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif.

SplinterHands
05-21-2005, 07:09 PM
Thorston had to play a race to 7 too.

landshark77
05-21-2005, 07:23 PM
Oh, Johnny was gonna comeback from 0 in two to four games?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Scott Lee
05-21-2005, 07:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> Oh, Johnny was gonna comeback from 0 in two to four games?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>

landshark77...You're quite mistaken if you think players of this caliber are not capable of incredible comebacks. Every one of them has been in situations where they were down to the wire, with 0 or 1 game, and their opponent on the hill...and have come back to win. I've done it myself several times. I didn't see this match, but obviously Archer wasn't on his game. Nonetheless, you can NEVER count out the skills they possess!

Scott Lee

landshark77
05-21-2005, 07:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> Oh, Johnny was gonna comeback from 0 in two to four games?? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>

landshark77...You're quite mistaken if you think players of this caliber are not capable of incredible comebacks. Every one of them has been in situations where they were down to the wire, with 0 or 1 game, and their opponent on the hill...and have come back to win. I've done it myself several times. I didn't see this match, but obviously Archer wasn't on his game. Nonetheless, you can NEVER count out the skills they possess!

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

Oh indeed Scott...I have seen it. I was just saying that Johnny can hardly blame the race for his loss...he had zero games in. Now if it went double hill I can see that argument. JMHO.

Popcorn
05-21-2005, 07:59 PM
Are you kidding, there is a big difference between a race to 11 and one to 7. You can be behind 7 to 0 in a race to 11 and easily make a come back. Pros should not be racing to 7.

landshark77
05-21-2005, 08:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Pros should not be racing to 7. <hr /></blockquote>

The women do it at EVERY tourney. I don't feel bad for the boys having to race to 7. I am not saying it is right, but I am saying the race was to 7 and Johnny lost with 0 games in. Those are the facts, and we could go with all kinds of what ifs. From what I understand Hohmann played basically a perfect game, thus deserving the win...it wasn't even a close race.

yegon
05-21-2005, 09:55 PM
I just read the news on az and it seems the finals were alternating break format. It would not be impossible for Johnny to come back but very very difficult.

I do no think Johnny, the sportsman that he is, would blame the format for his loss, it was the original poster ho did it and some of the replies just took it as if Johnny would say that. I did not see the interview after the match but after reading the article on az I would say that Johnny's break was the main reason for the loss.

Popcorn
05-22-2005, 01:12 AM
Lengthen the race even one more game and Johnny could just have easily won the next 7 in a row the same way Hohmann did. Short races just make it too much sudden death. It would be like pro golfers playing the final round 9 holes. In snooker they race to as much as 18 (best of 35) in championships. The sport is treated like a real sport and the pros like they mean something. Professional pool players racing to 7 is a joke no matter how you look at it. Why race to 7, why not just race to three so everybody can go home early or better yet not bother to play at all and just flip a coin. A few years ago the pros were racing to 13, that was great. Now they are trying to squeeze out what little life is left in the sport and going backwards again. Not even worth discussing anymore, the sport is seeming more and more like it is on life support.

Popcorn
05-22-2005, 01:23 AM
quote
"It would not be impossible for Johnny to come back but very very difficult."

Not difficult at all. You run out on your break. Your opponent doesn't make a ball on his break, you get out and run out again on your own break. One or two rolls and you win 4 to 6 games like a shot even with the rotating break. It's too short a set no matter how you look at it.

yegon
05-22-2005, 01:30 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> quote
"It would not be impossible for Johnny to come back but very very difficult."

Not as difficult at all. You run out on your break. Your opponent doesn't make a ball on his break, you get out and run out again on your own break. One or two rolls and you win 4 to 6 games like a shot even with the rotating break. It's too short a set no matter how you look at it. <hr /></blockquote>

what you described appears very difficult to me. It is for sure more difficult than to come back from a 7 games deficit in a winner break format.

Anyway it could be that if it would be a race to 11 the result could be 11-0. No one can tell so there is no point in discussing the possible outcome.

To discuss the format is another thing. I agree that a race to 7 is too short. A race to 11 might not have changed the result but it would definitely make the fans happier that the better player won, not the luckier.

Sid_Vicious
05-22-2005, 06:05 AM
"I just read the news on az and it seems the finals were alternating break format."

In that case, neither player was ever out of the game. Archer simply dodn't bring his game and the other guy did...sid~~~feels alternating breaks adds spice for the general audience

Cueless Joey
05-22-2005, 09:08 AM
I think the tv timeclock might have bothered the usually methodical Johnny.
But, that race to 7 is brutal if you make early mistakes or breaking dry.

sneakypapi
05-22-2005, 12:13 PM
I was thinking maybe 2 sets to a race to 5 just for the finals? When there is a race to 7 you have lots of pressure to perform quick if not then sometimes you can easily lose your mental focus when you start falling behind. At least in longer sets or 2 sets you think to yourself you still have a chance.

Nostroke
05-22-2005, 12:16 PM
I once backed a guy (winner breaks)- He won the first set 11-0 and i thought we were on easy street. Score of the 2nd set 11-0 the other guy!

ras314
05-22-2005, 12:38 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Pros should not be racing to 7. <hr /></blockquote>

The women do it at EVERY tourney. <hr /></blockquote>
I'm probably not reading your post correctly, but the WPBA matches are races to 9 I think. It is only the TV matches that drop to races to 7. I see no reason the womens matches shouldn't be to 11 either. I watched a teenage girl play three very good races to 9 in a row on Thrusday, although she lost the last to Monica Webb. IIRC. Things were getting a little blurrey by Thrus. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can't understand the race to 7 stuff, heck they cut out whatever racks they want anyway.

Stretch
05-22-2005, 02:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Pros should not be racing to 7. <hr /></blockquote>

The women do it at EVERY tourney. <hr /></blockquote>
I'm probably not reading your post correctly, but the WPBA matches are races to 9 I think. It is only the TV matches that drop to races to 7. I see no reason the womens matches shouldn't be to 11 either. I watched a teenage girl play three very good races to 9 in a row on Thrusday, although she lost the last to Monica Webb. IIRC. Things were getting a little blurrey by Thrus. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I can't understand the race to 7 stuff, heck they cut out whatever racks they want anyway. <hr /></blockquote>

Just so there is no mistaking my view on this. A race to Seven Championship is a total DISGRACE. It proves NOTHING. It's a FARCE of mind bogeling proportions.

You know why there never will be a true Champion? THAT"S WHY. Untill they show me a match that keeps these pro's occupied over several hours, then it's just so much hocus pocus here's what we'll call a Champion.

So big friggin deal. Hohmann today, Archer tomarrow, someone else the next day, someone else the day after. Who cares? It means nothing except luck cause anyone can beat anyone on any given day with a short run joke of a "Championship". I don't even watch nor care about any of them.

With this brain dead attitude Tennis would be one set, Golf would be 9 holes, Hockey would be one period, football one quarter, Boxing one round, and so on. Thank god they are not and we can enjoy a true test of skill and courage. All eccept for pool of course which is just a laughable excuse to crown a new "champion" at every event. St.

ras314
05-22-2005, 02:57 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>

Just so there is no mistaking my view on this. A race to Seven Championship is a total DISGRACE. It proves NOTHING. It's a FARCE of mind bogeling proportions.
<hr /></blockquote>

Nope Stretch, your view on this is pretty clear. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Only "large" no TV interference tournament I've been to the person from the loser side had to win two races to 11 over the person on the win side. There was no doubt who the "real" winner was with this format.

Personally I agree the one race to 7 with players at this level is a farce and a sell out to the TV moguls. Maybe though the TV exposure will encourage new players to start the game so I usually attempt to be somewhat polite.

9 Ball Girl
05-22-2005, 03:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr>With this brain dead attitude Tennis would be one set, Golf would be 9 holes, Hockey would be one period, football one quarter, Boxing one round, and so on. Thank god they are not and we can enjoy a true test of skill and courage. All eccept for pool of course which is just a laughable excuse to crown a new "champion" at every event. St. <hr /></blockquote>Tap, tap, tap.

I don't understand why they couldn't do the race to 11. Like Ras said, ESPN or whoever it is will cut racks anyway. $hit, I'm surprised they don't start the rack off somewhere in the middle like they did with the Mosconi Cup about 2-3 years ago, IIRC.

Stretch, you couldn't have said it better.

Bob_Jewett
05-22-2005, 07:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Stretch:</font><hr> ... Just so there is no mistaking my view on this. A race to Seven Championship is a total DISGRACE. It proves NOTHING. It's a FARCE of mind bogeling proportions.

You know why there never will be a true Champion? THAT"S WHY. Untill they show me a match that keeps these pro's occupied over several hours, then it's just so much hocus pocus here's what we'll call a Champion. ... <hr /></blockquote>
Well, the final match of the World Championships was a race to 17. And it was broadcast live. It just wasn't broadcast live in the US.

The BCA Open in Las Vegas was produced by an independent producer. ESPN does not do the production or pay the production costs. You make your tape and you take it to ESPN and hope they play it. They played the 2004 edition a lot -- I think someone said 64 airings or maybe it was hours. ESPN wants a 47-minute program to which 13 minutes of commercials are added. Since the Archer/Hohmann match took more than 47 minutes, parts of it will be edited out even though it was only 7 racks. You also won't see all of the Corr-Fisher match -- I suspect they will edit out most of the interesting safety play.

Should events be produced for US TV if the matches have to be short? The alternative seems to be no pool on TV. Or, someone could come up with the additional production costs to allow the matches to run longer -- I'd guess that $5000/hour is all it would take to extend the lengths of the matches.

Popcorn
05-22-2005, 08:06 PM
Properly edited there is no reason that the matches have to be shortened just for TV. The players can play a legitimate match, what I think is the most important thing, and the TV audience can still see an large amount of the action. It is a win win.

landshark77
05-22-2005, 08:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ras314:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote landshark77:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Pros should not be racing to 7. <hr /></blockquote>

The women do it at EVERY tourney. <hr /></blockquote>
I'm probably not reading your post correctly, but the WPBA matches are races to 9 I think. It is only the TV matches that drop to races to 7. <hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, and the guys at this BCA event only raced to 7 in the finals too. All I was saying was that the race can not be blamed for Johnny's loss. He has 0 games in...it was reported that Hohmann played perfect except for one missed carom. I am not gonna debate if a race to 7 is sufficient. I am a girl. I get lame races anyway. /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Vagabond
05-22-2005, 10:22 PM
Howdy,
Hohmann played like a Machine- with his spectacular shot making ability ,flawless positioning of the cue ball and taking comfortable Route to the next shot.Johny did not get the opportunity at all because Hohmann overpowered him.Cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

yegon
05-24-2005, 09:34 AM
Did anyone see the match? I just read on a german news site that Thorsten made the 9 ball on the break 4 times, that means on all his breaks and ran out the rest of the games after the first mistake by Johnny Archer. Is that correct? I can't believe he could have had all his breaks drop the nine.

SPetty
05-24-2005, 09:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote yegon:</font><hr> I just read on a german news site that Thorsten made the 9 ball on the break 4 times... <hr /></blockquote>I missed the match because I had to leave early to catch a plane - actually to sit at the airport for over two hours... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I don't think he made the 9 on the break 4 times. He had the break four times (to Johnny's three), and probably ran out each time he broke. Could it have been a mistranslation?

The official (http://cbpromos.com/bca/bcafinal/) report I read said: "The men's final between Thorsten Hohmann and Johnny Archer was a short match dominated by the German. With his staunch and serious focus, Mr. Hohmann occupied the table for the majority of the event. Archer, on the other hand, barely got to the table. He was only at the table to break three times, one of which he scratched and one he did not make a ball. Hohmann took advantage of every opportunity and finished the match quickly with a score of 7-0."

yegon
05-24-2005, 10:00 AM
They wrote in the german article that Hohmann made 4 "aces". The word "ace" is used for 9 ball on the break here in Europe, I think you refer to it as a "golden break". Maybe the article was written by someone who did not know the terminology and described a break and run as an "ace".

Eric.
05-24-2005, 11:40 AM
Why don't you let Vagabond answer the question. After all, he "watched the Machine over power Johny", implying he "was there" /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Eric

Vagabond
05-24-2005, 09:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote yegon:</font><hr> Did anyone see the match? I just read on a german news site that Thorsten made the 9 ball on the break 4 times, that means on all his breaks and ran out the rest of the games after the first mistake by Johnny Archer. Is that correct? I can't believe he could have had all his breaks drop the nine. <hr /></blockquote>

Howdy,
It was not true.
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Bob_Jewett
05-25-2005, 11:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote yegon:</font><hr> Did anyone see the match? ... <hr /></blockquote>
Yes. No one made a nine on the break in the finals. They were using a Sardo rack, and it is very rare to make the nine from a Sardo rack, since the nine stays put unless something comes back through the rack area and hits it.

On the other hand, I saw Ortman in a previous BCA Open with the Sardo make the nine twice in a row. In both cases, a back ball in the rack went four cushions and hit the nine into the same corner pocket from its "spot".