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AmazingBrewdini
05-23-2005, 04:28 PM
DEAN SAYS: LIBERAL DEMOCRATS = SOCIALISTS
Federal Review ^ | 5/23/05

WASHINGTON--DNC Chair Howard Dean, appearing on "Meet the Press" told hold host Tim Russert that a Socialist "is bascially a liberal Democrat."

Dean, while discussing the race to replace outgoing Vermont Senator Jim Jeffords, insisted to Russert that potential candidate Bernie Sanders, an admitted socialist, was no different than the liberal wing of his own party:

Russert: ...there's a vacancy for the United States Senate about to occur. Bernie Sanders, the congressman from Vermont, wants to run for that seat. He is a self-described avowed socialist.

Dean: Well, that's what he says. He's really a populist.

Russert: But is there room in the Democratic Party for a socialist?

Dean: Well, first of all, he's not a socialist, really.

Russert: ...he wrote in his book: "Outsider in the House, I am a Democratic socialist."

Dean: Well, a Democratic socialist--all right, we're talking about words here. And Bernie can call himself anything he wants. He is basically a liberal Democrat.

As the always-insightful James Taranto, at the Wall St. Journal, observes:

[I]f, as Dean claims, a socialist "is basically a liberal Democrat," then a liberal Democrat is basically a socialist. Which... is something you'd expect to hear from a right-wing kook, not the Democratic chairman.

At least you have to give Dean points for honesty. He finally "admitted" something we "right wing kooks" have been telling the public for half a century.

Gayle in MD
05-24-2005, 03:34 PM
Typical inaccurate rightwing twisting of words and facts.

Gayle in Md.

AmazingBrewdini
05-24-2005, 07:43 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Typical inaccurate rightwing twisting of words and facts.

Gayle in Md. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Really? How so? This came straight from Dean's mouth on national TV ("Meet the Press"). I'm confused here. Are you saying that "right wing" fanatics held a gun to his head and made Dean say this:

Russert: ...he wrote in his book: "Outsider in the House, I am a Democratic socialist."

Dean: Well, a Democratic socialist--all right, we're talking about words here. And Bernie can call himself anything he wants. He is basically a liberal Democrat.

Here is a link for you: Democratic Socialists of America (http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html)

</font color>

Gayle in MD
05-25-2005, 03:07 AM
"Alright, we're talking about words, here."

Where does he state that a socialist, is a liberal democrat? Obviously he disagrees that Mr. Saunders is a socialist. Mr. Dean did not say that Mr. Saunders was a socialist, nor did he say that a socialist was a liberal democrat. What he said was, that in his opinion, Mr. Saunders is a democratic liberal.

Gayle in Md.

moblsv
05-25-2005, 06:39 AM
"Dean : Liberal Democrat=Socialist"

Wow, you were able to associate four "evil" words by stringing them together into a single headline. You've learned well my young apprentice.

(Dean ~= Liberal ~= Democrat ~= Socialist) != Evil

(Bush ~= Neo-con ~= Facist) == (Misguided &amp;&amp; Morons)

Wally_in_Cincy
05-27-2005, 05:08 AM
The Dems are going to run a Socialist (in conservative Democrat stealth mode) in 2008

Hillary.

I fear for the future of the Republic /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Qtec
05-27-2005, 10:18 AM
I hear the GOPs are looking for a candidate who DIDNT dodge the draft!
I hear they are still looking!t
I hear they might have to SKIP a whole generation. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Q.....lets not forget, Kerry had 5 medals earned in active combat, GW had a dental appointment.....HAAAAAAAAAAAA /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q

Deeman2
05-27-2005, 10:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I hear the GOPs are looking for a candidate who DIDNT dodge the draft!
I hear they are still looking!t
I hear they might have to SKIP a whole generation. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Q.....lets not forget, Kerry had 5 medals earned in active combat, GW had a dental appointment.....HAAAAAAAAAAAA /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Q,

We have many, but one, a Senator John McCain, fits the bill very nicely. I know he's a closet Democrat at heart but he will still be better than Kerry. </font color>

Qtec
05-27-2005, 10:41 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I like the guy.

Q <hr /></blockquote>

eg8r
05-27-2005, 10:50 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Q.....lets not forget, Kerry had 5 medals earned in active combat, GW had a dental appointment.....HAAAAAAAAAAAA <hr /></blockquote> You are correct that Bush was not in Vietnam. Thank goodness, while Kerry was over there, he was burning down innoncent villages and people. He was committing atrocities and he some how felt that would make him a better commander-in-chief now (judging by your post, I think you might somehow agree with this insanity).
Anyways, since you are suddenly wanting to "remember" the past, remember this... <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kerry:</font><hr> I personally didn't see personal atrocities ( <font color="red"> this is cya, but then he blows it as he keeps talking </font color> ) in the sense that I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that. However ( <font color="red"> Uh oh, here is where he flip flops his statement and actually says he did partake and "see" personal atrocities. Sure he did not cut off a head, however he admits to burning down the villages. Any chance there were innocent people caught in the blazes? </font color> ), I did take part in free fire zones. I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire. I did take part in search and destroy missions, in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these, I find out later on, these acts are contrary to the Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg principles is, in fact, guilty.
<hr /></blockquote> The man admittedly burned down non-combatant villages. The funny part is that he acts like he did not know it would be wrong to burned down the innocent.

This medal crap you mention means nothing in the whole scheme of things.

eg8r

Qtec
05-27-2005, 10:51 AM
I dont know why being a Liberal or a Socialist is so bad.

The top guy in Hedge Funds made 1.5 BILLION last year!
.........then GW says, "we dont have the money to pay your pension[ that you have paid for the last 40 years".!!!!] /ccboard/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Or yes, we have 500 billion for the WoT,? but we cant pay Veterans health costs?

Its always a matter of priorities, DC doesnt want people/ veterans to live longer, because it costs too much. This is the reality!

Q

Wally_in_Cincy
05-27-2005, 11:19 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I dont know why being a Liberal or a Socialist is so bad.
<hr /></blockquote>

Because government is too wasteful and inefficient. The less we have them do for us the better.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Or yes, we have 500 billion for the WoT,? but we cant pay Veterans health costs?

Its always a matter of priorities, DC doesnt want people/ veterans to live longer, because it costs too much. <hr /></blockquote>

No, that is not true. The VA is just a typical gov't agency. Poorly managed and inefficient.

It wasn't 500 billion BTW

Qtec
05-28-2005, 12:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The US House of Representatives has overwhelmingly approved a US$ 491 billion defence bill, but it rejected an attempt to force on the Bush administration a timetable for withdrawing troops from the country.

By a vote of 390-39 late on Wednesday, lawmakers passed the 2006 National Defence Authorisation Act, which establishes spending ceilings and policies for the Pentagon and other agencies on matters ranging from military pay to weapons procurements and missile defence.

“This bill strikes the right balance,” said House Speaker Dennis Hastert. “It shows that we're being responsible with taxpayer dollars while providing the tools needed to protect America from terrorists.”

<hr /></blockquote>

Q

Qtec
05-28-2005, 01:10 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Q.....lets not forget, Kerry had 5 medals earned in active combat, GW had a dental appointment.....HAAAAAAAAAAAA <hr /></blockquote> You are correct that Bush was not in Vietnam. Thank goodness, while Kerry was over there, he was burning down innoncent villages and people. He was committing atrocities and he some how felt that would make him a better commander-in-chief now (judging by your post, I think you might somehow agree with this insanity).
Anyways, since you are suddenly wanting to "remember" the past, remember this... <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Kerry:</font><hr> I personally didn't see personal atrocities ( <font color="red"> this is cya, but then he blows it as he keeps talking </font color> ) in the sense that I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that. However ( <font color="red"> Uh oh, here is where he flip flops his statement and actually says he did partake and "see" personal atrocities. Sure he did not cut off a head, however he admits to burning down the villages. Any chance there were innocent people caught in the blazes? </font color> ), I did take part in free fire zones. I did take part in harassment and interdiction fire. I did take part in search and destroy missions, in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground. And all of these, I find out later on, these acts are contrary to the Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg principles is, in fact, guilty.
<hr /></blockquote> The man admittedly burned down non-combatant villages. The funny part is that he acts like he did not know it would be wrong to burned down the innocent.

This medal crap you mention means nothing in the whole scheme of things.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>



[ QUOTE ]
A VERY FRANKS DISCUSSION: Here at THE HOWLER, we’ve dreamed of the day when we could help our occasional pal, Mickey Kaus. And now, with the author of the new-improved Kausfiles rejoining the ranks of the sentient peoples, we’re more than happy to help Mickey out. We refer, of course, to Tommy Franks’ important discussion with Sean Hannity. The session aired Tuesday on Fox.

<font color="blue"> And yes, this session was very important, as every DNC talker should be told. It’s the kind of discussion such talkers can use when they want to refute the coming attacks—the attacks that will now be made (again) against Kerry’s post-Vietnam record. General Franks, of course, just finished a stint as CentCom Commander. And since Franks has known Laura Bush since school days—and since he’s partial to the president too—Hannity knew that this was a chance to trash Kerry’s post-Nam public record. You know—a chance to say that he slandered the troops when he described appalling misconduct in Nam? A chance to call Kerry a very bad man—a man you can’t possibly vote for?</font color>

This was an early line of attack on Kerry, and it’s about to be ginned up again. So Hannity threw raw meat to Franks, assuming that Tommy would take it and run. But uh-oh! Franks vouched for the accuracy of Kerry’s remarks. We hope DNC types will notice.

You know Sean—he has all the moves. Always eager to stir the rubes, he started by asking Franks this:

HANNITY (8/3/04): I want to play a tape of John Kerry, and I want to get your reaction to this tape.
KERRY (videotape, Dick Cavett Show, 1971): I personally didn't see personal atrocities in the sense that I saw somebody cut a head off or something like that. However, I did take part in free fire zones. I did take part in harassment interdiction fire. I did take part in search and destroy missions in which the houses of noncombatants were burned to the ground.
And all of these, I find out later on—these acts are contrary to The Hague and Geneva conventions and to the laws of warfare. So, in that sense, anybody who took part in those, if you carry out the application of the Nuremberg principles, is in fact guilty.

HANNITY: What does that mean to you?

Hannity seemed to assume that Franks would say Kerry shouldn’t have said that, or that such conduct never occurred, or that this dude is a very bad man. But Franks is a soldier, not a pundit—as such, he doesn’t mislead for a living. Quickly, Sean knew that things had gone wrong. Franks said Kerry’s statements were right:
FRANKS (continuing directly): I think we had a lot of problems in Vietnam. One was the lack of leadership of young people like in—in John Kerry's position. He was a young officer over there, and I'm not sure that, that activities like that didn't take place. In fact, quite the contrary. I'm sure that they did.
Say what? Just that quickly, Franks was off message. But Hannity gave him another chance. He played one more piece of old tape:
HANNITY: I want to play you another tape of his, where he talks about what other soldiers did when he was there.
FRANKS: Right.

HANNITY: And then, I'll get your reaction to this. Roll this tape.

KERRY (videotape, Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 1971): I relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do. They told the stories of times that they had personally raped, cut off the ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in the fashion of Genghis Khan.

HANNITY: I mean, raped, murdered, all these things. But he never told names. Does that anger you? I mean, this is the guy now that is the leading candidate for the Democrats.

“But he never told names,” Hannity said, engaging in his trademark dissembling. (Sean misleads like other men breathe.) Duh! In this testimony, Kerry was describing statements made by former soldiers in the well-known “Winter Soldier” investigation. The names of these soldiers were public record; Kerry didn’t have to list them. But at any rate, Franks again passed on the bait. Hannity wanted the general to hammer Vile John. But once again, Franks told the truth:
FRANKS (continuing directly): I don't know. I think Vietnam was—I think Vietnam was a bad time. I think that what I've learned in my life, Sean, is that it's a heck of a lot easier to protest than it is to step up and take responsibility for the actions of a unit or for—or for your own actions. And so, I don't—I don't like what I saw. But at the same time, I wouldn't say that—the things that Senator Kerry said are undeniable about activities in Vietnam. I think that things didn't go right in, in Vietnam.
Franks did try to help Sean out, suggesting it was unworthy to protest. (In another answer, he seemed to say that he had refused to engage in activities that contravened the Geneva conventions.) But again, Franks stated the obvious truth: “The things that Senator Kerry said are undeniable about activities in Vietnam.” Sadly, everyone knows that such events did occur. But a gaggle of Manchurian anti-candidates are about to start saying otherwise. Sean hoped Franks was Manchurian too. But Franks said Kerry’s statements were accurate. In fact, he said something much stronger—undeniable.
Of course, nothing is “undeniable” now, in a world where your press corps has walked off its posts. In 1971, Kerry spoke to a Senate committee, made up of Dems and Reps alike. No one questioned the things he said, because everyone knew that his statements were accurate. But Manchurian mau-maus are about to deploy, and they will be pleased to deny the undeniable. Will the Bill Hemmers challenge them? Frankly, we doubt it. But Franks gave the Dems a key word—undeniable. Will someone tell Vilsack to use it?

<hr /></blockquote>

I prefer to believe General franks rather than you and Hannity! /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Have you heard of Google? Sometimes you might try checking your so-called information.

Q. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif.I think thats touche` /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Can you imagine how desperate the GOP must be have to go back to something the guy said in 1971?...pathetic.

Vagabond
05-28-2005, 07:16 PM
Jesus Christ is a nice man and a Liberal.He is cool.So Liberals are cool and nice people.
PS:I am neither Democrat nor Republican.I am an idependent

Cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

eg8r
05-28-2005, 08:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I prefer to believe General franks rather than you and Hannity! Have you heard of Google? Sometimes you might try checking your so-called information.
<hr /></blockquote> How more ridiculous can you get. What is wrong with the information? They are sound bites right from the horses mouth. By believing Franks you also agree with us, Hannity or I because we are just repeating the fact that Kerry acted in these acts. Hello, you are only confirming what was stated already. Also, ,your reference, the Great Tommy Franks, says that it was lack of leadership skills that might have lead to this atrocities. Well, just what kind of leadership skills has Kerry shown that would give anyone even a shadow of doubt that he could lead the country? (Begin to get off topic to show that even current events prove the man was no better than his opponent)The man had trouble acting lawfully during his campaign and was using campaign money to pay for it. He was also wasting thousands of campaign money on haircuts? I also find it interesting to see he took his campaign money, which was given to him to support his candidacy, and he paid himself back. He had no leadership skills militarily, confirmed by your reference, yet, his military background was the whole point behind your statement about medals.

Your ridiculous statement about medals somehow hinting that they really show who would have been a better war time leader has backfired on you by your own reference, a little humiliating to say the least. I decided to mention the outlandish spending on himself with campaign money to also show that nothing in Kerry's recent past proves he would have been able to handle a budget consisting entirely of money taken from US citizens.

One of these days it would be nice for you to give some sensible reason to have ever chosen Kerry, but mentioning the medals he earned while grenading himself and acting out in military atrocities does not seem to make any sense.

[ QUOTE ]
Can you imagine how desperate the GOP must be have to go back to something the guy said in 1971?...pathetic. <hr /></blockquote> Why is it pathetic? The fool was going back to the same time to prove his worthiness. How pathetic of yourself to not understand such simplicities. What is more pathetic is trying to win the Presidency based on a point in time when, morally, you were at your lowest. LOL, I don't remember W's platform being based on his binge drinking in college, however Kerry decided his platform should be based on his past of burning innoncent villages and various other war atrocities.

eg8r

highsea
05-28-2005, 11:47 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> Q.....lets not forget, Kerry had 5 medals earned in active combat, GW had a dental appointment.....HAAAAAAAAAAAA /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Q <hr /></blockquote>I'm glad you get so much pleasure out of denigrating the Air National Guard. The Century Series Fighters were by no measure a safe billet or an easy aircraft to fly. Of the 875 F102A's (Bush's aircraft) that entered service in the US, 259 were lost to accidents and 70 pilots lost their lives. The F-102 had a crash rate over 5 times greater than the F-15, our current top-end fighter.

ANG pilots have no say in their deployments, as many of our people in Iraq and Afghanistan would no doubt tell you if they had the opportunity. They go where they are sent. If the 111th. FIS had been deployed to Southeast Asia, Bush would have had to go with them, that's how it works.

The US has ANG units in every state, and they are tasked with protecting the country in wartime as well as peacetime. Flying high performance aircraft is never a safe occupation, and we lose people every year. It takes a special breed of person to fly these aircraft, and always will. George W. Bush served his country honorably during his service, as have thousands of other ANG pilots over the years.

Why don't you worry about your country, and we'll worry about ours.

Qtec
05-29-2005, 10:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Quote Qtec:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q.....lets not forget, Kerry had 5 medals earned in active combat, GW had a dental appointment.....HAAAAAAAAAAAA

Q
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm glad you get so much pleasure out of denigrating the Air National Guard.<hr /></blockquote>



Excuse me , but I never mentioned the National Guard! I am always very SPECIFIC in my critisism.
It might surprise you that 49% [ at least] voted AGAINST GW. Are they all un-patriotic? Are they all Liberal, commie, pinko traitors? Does voting against GW mean that they are Anti-American?
Is there no criticism allowed now that GW is President?

It didnt seem that way when Clinton was President.
The Reps did everything they could to bring down the ELECTED President of the US, any way they could.
Isnt that UN-PATRIOTIC???????

[ QUOTE ]
George W. Bush served his country honorably during his service, <hr /></blockquote>
Sure, if Alabama was attacked by the Vietcong, I,m sure he would have done his duty!
The only record of GW serving out his last year is a dental appointment.
Am I seriously meant to believe that the President,s son didnt have a dentist, that he has been going to , ALL HIS LIFE????????????? Do you really think a guy like GW would go to an Army Dentist????


[ QUOTE ]
Flying high performance aircraft is never a safe occupation, and we lose people every year. <hr /></blockquote>


Tell me, how many planes have been shot down and how many pilots have been killed in the Iraqi war? I,m sure that the ratio between pilots and Grunts [ killed, injured or captured] is somewhere around 1000/1!
I know you are much safer in a plane at 20,000 thousnd feet , in a state of the art fighter plane, than on a street corner in Baghdad!
How many died protecting Alabama and how many died in Vietnam?
You do know that GW, when given the chance, choose NOT to go to Vietnam. I know you dont want to hear this, but its TRUE!
If I was the Base Commander ,my question to him would have been, "if you dont want to fight [ in a time of War], why TF do you want to be a pilot???? "

BTW, The way you speak one would think Afgahnistan and Iraq are STATES of America?
Basically you think the US has the right to attack any country in the world, but the rest of the world has no right to comment on what the US does OUTSIDE its borders? Is this the Democracy and Freedom that the US [ GW]promotes?
You also seem to think that the WHOLE CCB must OBEY your bias, right wing slanted /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif, rules??????????
Why do you think that?
How does imprisoning people without charge for 3 years [ without charge] and in the meanwhile, torturing them, fit in with this ideal of Freedom and Democracy?
How about transporting SUSPECTS to 3rd countries so that they can undergo more extreme acts of torture outside US control] fit into the New World Order.



Q..waiting with baited breath................

Qtec
05-29-2005, 10:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I prefer to believe General franks rather than you and Hannity! Have you heard of Google? Sometimes you might try checking your so-called information.
<hr /></blockquote> How more ridiculous can you get. What is wrong with the information? <font color="blue">Nothing! </font color> They are sound bites right from the horses mouth. By believing Franks you also agree with us, Hannity or I because we are just repeating the fact that Kerry acted in these acts. Hello, you are only confirming what was stated already. Also, ,your reference, the Great Tommy Franks, says that it was lack of leadership skills that might have lead to this atrocities. <font color="blue"> Yeah!??? </font color> Well, just what kind of leadership skills has Kerry shown that would give anyone even a shadow of doubt that he could lead the country? <font color="blue"> One day you are walking to the Super , buying a paper, shooting some pool and drining a beer. The next day you are in a foriegn country, you dont speak the language and it seems that you have become a target. People want to end your life! I can understand that soldiers have trouble adapting to the situation. They have to learn to survive, all over again.
Its not uncommon for people in stress situations to react'differently'. </font color> (Begin to get off topic to show that even current events prove the man was no better than his opponent)The man had trouble acting lawfully during his campaign and was using campaign money to pay for it. <font color="blue">No kidding! /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif </font color> He was also wasting thousands of campaign money on haircuts? <font color="blue"> Thats REALLY serious. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif </font color> I also find it interesting to see he took his campaign money, which was given to him to support his candidacy, and he paid himself back. He had no leadership skills militarily, confirmed by your reference, yet, his military background was the whole point behind your statement about medals. <font color="blue">Once again I call you out on this. This is a MYTH spread by the GOP pitbulls.........and you bought it.</font color>

Your ridiculous statement about medals somehow hinting that they really show who would have been a better war time leader has backfired on you by your own reference, a little humiliating to say the least. I decided to mention the outlandish spending on himself with campaign money to also show that nothing in Kerry's recent past proves he would have been able to handle a budget consisting entirely of money taken from US citizens.

One of these days it would be nice for you to give some sensible reason to have ever chosen Kerry, <font color="blue"> I never choose Kerry. I dont have a vote! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif</font color> but mentioning the medals he earned while grenading himself and acting out in military atrocities does not seem to make any sense.

&lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
Can you imagine how desperate the GOP must be have to go back to something the guy said in 1971?...pathetic. <hr /></blockquote> Why is it pathetic? The fool was going back to the same time to prove his worthiness. How pathetic of yourself to not understand such simplicities. What is more pathetic is trying to win the Presidency based on a point in time when, morally, you were at your lowest. LOL, I don't remember W's platform being based on his binge drinking in college, however Kerry decided his platform should be based on his past of burning innoncent villages and various other war atrocities.

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

Franks said,"Kerry was RIGHT". What is it that you dont understand?
Kerry knows war means,;" death and suffering."
GW thinks war is a dental appointment.! War is basically something where OTHER PEOPLE get killed .

Q.........knows that this is a waste of time.... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
BTW, I dont think that I have ever said that I was for Kerry.....check my posts............

highsea
05-29-2005, 02:46 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> The only record of GW serving out his last year is a dental appointment.<hr /></blockquote> Lol. This has been covered 100 times here. His Commander had already approved of his move.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>Tell me, how many planes have been shot down and how many pilots have been killed in the Iraqi war? I,m sure that the ratio between pilots and Grunts [ killed, injured or captured] is somewhere around 1000/1!
<hr /></blockquote>We've lost enough. I'm not going to provide you with a tally. I can assure you it's more than 1.6.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> You do know that GW, when given the chance, choose NOT to go to Vietnam. I know you dont want to hear this, but its TRUE!<hr /></blockquote>As a matter of fact, when Bush enrolled in the TANG and applied for Fighter training, the 147th FIG already had active duty F-102 pilots in Vietnam. Not a very smart way to avoid the war, is it?

Read the Independent Report on Bush's Guard Service. When Bush signed up for the TANG, he did state in his application that he was not signing up to go overseas. In the late '60's, the US had a program called "Palace Alert". It provided for 90 day assignments in Vietnam for Guard pilots. Bush did volunteer for this duty, but was turned down for more experienced pilots. The requirement was for 500 hours, and Bush only had about 300 at the time. I know YOU don't want to hear that.

Here is a link to the report. Page 130.

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/complete_report/CBS_Report.pdf

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr>How does imprisoning people without charge for 3 years [ without charge] and in the meanwhile, torturing them, fit in with this ideal of Freedom and Democracy? <hr /></blockquote>Suggest you take time to read the following, not that it will enlighten you one bit.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_1_terrorists.html

The rest of your rant is not worth responding to.

Don't you have a new 400 page EU Constitution to read?

Fran Crimi
05-29-2005, 03:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr> Jesus Christ is a nice man and a Liberal.He is cool.So Liberals are cool and nice people.
PS:I am neither Democrat nor Republican.I am an idependent

Cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>


Yes, but his Father was one helluva Republican.

"Get in the Ark, Noah. These people are too far gone. I'm wiping out the whole damn planet and starting over."

Fran /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

OK, so maybe He didn't say 'damn."

Qtec
05-30-2005, 08:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Lol. This has been covered 100 times here. <hr /></blockquote>
<font color="blue"> At least we can agree on something! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>
[ QUOTE ]
Read the Independent Report on Bush's Guard Service. When Bush signed up for the TANG, he did state in his application that he was not signing up to go overseas. <font color="blue"> Exactly. what more is there to know. He didnt want to go into action,[ I,m not blaming him but these are the facts]. </font color>
In the late '60's, the US had a program called "Palace Alert". It provided for 90 day assignments in Vietnam for Guard pilots. Bush did volunteer for this duty, but was turned down for more experienced pilots. The requirement was for 500 hours, and Bush only had about 300 at the time. I know YOU don't want to hear that. <font color="blue"> I have heard about 'all that'. He is 'supposedly' to have volunteerd for a job that he had no chance of getting, [ like you said,he was under qualified] and for a program that was being fased out!</font color>

<hr /></blockquote>

Q

Qtec
05-30-2005, 09:55 AM
eg8r said,
[ QUOTE ]
Why is it pathetic? The fool was going back to the same time to prove his worthiness. How pathetic of yourself to not understand such simplicities. What is more pathetic is trying to win the Presidency based on a point in time when, morally, you were at your lowest. LOL, I don't remember W's platform being based on his binge drinking in college, however Kerry decided his platform should be based on his past of burning innoncent villages and various other war atrocities. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> This idea that Kerry ran solely on his war record is a GOP MYTH. Its a strawman arguement propagated by the Rep. Spin Doctors[ Rove etc].

Here, in the last debate, Kerry had the classic chance to give it the, "vote for me because I,ve got 5 medals and G W hasnt."</font color>

here is what he said,




[ QUOTE ]
Senator, I want to set the stage for this discussion by asking the question that I think hangs over all of our politics today and is probably on the minds of many people watching this debate tonight.

And that is, will our children and grandchildren ever live in a world as safe and secure as the world in which we grew up?

KERRY: Well, first of all, Bob, thank you for moderating tonight.

Thank you, Arizona State, for welcoming us.

And thank you to the Presidential Commission for undertaking this enormous task. We're proud to be here.

Mr. President, I'm glad to be here with you again to share similarities and differences with the American people.

Will we ever be safe and secure again? Yes. We absolutely must be. That's the goal.

Now, how do we achieve it is the most critical component of it.

I believe that this president, regrettably, rushed us into a war, made decisions about foreign policy, pushed alliances away. And, as a result, America is now bearing this extraordinary burden where we are not as safe as we ought to be.

The measurement is not: Are we safer? The measurement is: Are we as safe as we ought to be? And there are a host of options that this president had available to him, like making sure that at all our ports in America containers are inspected. Only 95 percent of them -- 95 percent come in today uninspected. That's not good enough.

People who fly on airplanes today, the cargo hold is not X-rayed, but the baggage is. That's not good enough. Firehouses don't have enough firefighters in them. Police officers are being cut from the streets of America because the president decided to cut the COPS program.

So we can do a better job of homeland security. I can do a better job of waging a smarter, more effective war on terror and guarantee that we will go after the terrorists.

I will hunt them down, and we'll kill them, we'll capture them. We'll do whatever is necessary to be safe.

But I pledge this to you, America: I will do it in the way that Franklin Roosevelt and Ronald Reagan and John Kennedy and others did, where we build the strongest alliances, where the world joins together, where we have the best intelligence and where we are able, ultimately, to be more safe and secure.

<hr /></blockquote>

Q...?????????

DickLeonard
05-30-2005, 11:45 AM
eg8r
I had friend that was in VietNam for over two years and his take on the villages was farminng during the day and killing at night. They would tell the villagers to move on or they would be killed but they stayed.####

DickLeonard
05-30-2005, 11:58 AM
eg8r
On the 100 greatest Americans they had JFK's Bio it made GWB look like a yellow bellied coward.I still want to know how Cheney got 5 deferments. ####

SPetty
05-30-2005, 06:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr><font color="blue">Senator John McCain, fits the bill very nicely. I know he's a closet Democrat at heart but he will still be better than Kerry. </font color><hr /></blockquote>If John McCain would run for President, whether as a Republican or a Democrat, he would win by the largest margin in history. I'd like to see him run as an Independent.

eg8r
05-31-2005, 05:38 AM
[ QUOTE ]
You do know that GW, when given the chance, choose NOT to go to Vietnam. <hr /></blockquote> So did the majority of everyone else. Kerry even tried to get away from the military by wanting to continue college (abroad, I think).

eg8r

eg8r
05-31-2005, 05:44 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I had friend that was in VietNam for over two years and his take on the villages was farminng during the day and killing at night. They would tell the villagers to move on or they would be killed but they stayed.#### <hr /></blockquote> This is a sad time in history.

eg8r

eg8r
05-31-2005, 05:47 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This idea that Kerry ran solely on his war record is a GOP MYTH <hr /></blockquote> I don't think anyone is saying "solely", however he did base the beginning on it. When he saw what a miserable failure that idea was going to be, he switched ideas.

[ QUOTE ]
Its a strawman arguement propagated by the Rep. Spin Doctors[ Rove etc].
<hr /></blockquote> I don't think you know what a strawman argument is.

eg8r

eg8r
05-31-2005, 06:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> Well, just what kind of leadership skills has Kerry shown that would give anyone even a shadow of doubt that he could lead the country? <blockquote><font class="small">Quote qtec:</font><hr> One day you are walking to the Super , buying a paper, shooting some pool and drining a beer. The next day you are in a foriegn country, you dont speak the language and it seems that you have become a target. People want to end your life! I can understand that soldiers have trouble adapting to the situation. They have to learn to survive, all over again.
Its not uncommon for people in stress situations to react'differently'. <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote> I guess you are just not making any sense. I ask about his leadership skills and the answer you give is, well he had to survive, react differently. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif Try harder, reacting differently while participating in atrocities, is not exactly the type of leadership skills we are looking for. Especially when we have people like yourself who are watching every move and calling the President a war criminal as it is.

eg8r

eg8r
05-31-2005, 06:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
If John McCain would run for President, whether as a Republican or a Democrat, he would win by the largest margin in history. I'd like to see him run as an Independent. <hr /></blockquote> I really don't care what party he would run for, I would just be happy if he reduced the Federal Budget and began decreasing the size of the government. Do we really need airport screeners to be on the Federal Budget? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r

Deeman2
05-31-2005, 11:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote eg8r:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
If John McCain would run for President, whether as a Republican or a Democrat, he would win by the largest margin in history. I'd like to see him run as an Independent. <hr /></blockquote> I really don't care what party he would run for, I would just be happy if he reduced the Federal Budget and began decreasing the size of the government. Do we really need airport screeners to be on the Federal Budget? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

eg8r <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue"> Nope,

We don't need them along with about 75% of the rest of the people on the federal payrole. </font color>

Deeman

Nightstalker
05-31-2005, 02:08 PM
But the gov't needs to be hoggish in size in order to dissuade us from overthrowing them! I would love a small and efficient gov't, beaurocrats ruin the system. /ccboard/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Vagabond
05-31-2005, 07:17 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Vagabond:</font><hr> Jesus Christ is a nice man and a Liberal.He is cool.So Liberals are cool and nice people.
PS:I am neither Democrat nor Republican.I am an idependent

Cheers
Vagabond /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif <hr /></blockquote>


Yes, but his Father was one helluva Republican.

"Get in the Ark, Noah. These people are too far gone. I'm wiping out the whole damn planet and starting over."

Fran /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

OK, so maybe He didn't say 'damn." <hr /></blockquote>


Hi Fran,
since when carpentors were Republicans?Jesus`s father was a carpentor.
Did I say that I attended late Ronald Reagan`s Presidential Inagural festivitees as an invitee when I used to be a hard core Republican? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Vagabond