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Drop1
05-31-2005, 07:49 PM
I like to play people that can beat me,but a lot of times I can't get my opponents best game,unless there is money on the game. Can I get the same knowledge from an instructor,that I get playing a good player,and if I can,what is the going rate. I play to learn,and some of the people that beat me in the past,won't play,because I beat them now.

raodwarior
06-01-2005, 01:44 PM
It has been my experience that most quality instructors will charge somewhere between 30-70 an hour depending on experience, and the amount of time your spending with them.

Drop1
06-01-2005, 01:54 PM
Wow. If you are talking quality,that is dirt cheap.

Deeman2
06-01-2005, 02:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Wow. If you are talking quality,that is dirt cheap. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">A good quality instructor is always dirt cheap. I always marvel at someone spending $500 for a cue and balking at $50 an hour instruction. </font color>

Deeman

SpiderMan
06-01-2005, 02:30 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Wow. If you are talking quality,that is dirt cheap. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">A good quality instructor is always dirt cheap. I always marvel at someone spending $500 for a cue and balking at $50 an hour instruction. </font color>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

It isn't necessarily the money. If I research and figure out something on my own, I value (and retain) if far more than if it had just been presented to me.

Also, I view an instructor's opinion on something as just that, an opinion, to be weighed in with my own thoughts and other resources on the topic. The amount of material readily available to research is phenomenal, compared to 20 years ago. It makes sense to take advantage of and integrate as much of it as possible.

Some people "need" an instructor to present a topic in a way that they can understand. Others may also need the mental crutch of having this information come from a source they respect. Paying the instructor to teach is one way of assigning him the status necessary to make you listen up and value his opinion.

Finally, many people do not really know what knowledge they should seek, nor the discipline to seek it themselves, and for them an instructor may be indispensible.

The better you are at learning, the easier you are to instruct. If you are really good at learning, you will be "instructed" by all you see. You can even learn from someone who is trying NOT to teach you, if you are a good enough student.

SpiderMan

Stretch
06-01-2005, 03:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Wow. If you are talking quality,that is dirt cheap. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">A good quality instructor is always dirt cheap. I always marvel at someone spending $500 for a cue and balking at $50 an hour instruction. </font color>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

It isn't necessarily the money. If I research and figure out something on my own, I value (and retain) if far more than if it had just been presented to me.

Also, I view an instructor's opinion on something as just that, an opinion, to be weighed in with my own thoughts and other resources on the topic. The amount of material readily available to research is phenomenal, compared to 20 years ago. It makes sense to take advantage of and integrate as much of it as possible.

Some people "need" an instructor to present a topic in a way that they can understand. Others may also need the mental crutch of having this information come from a source they respect. Paying the instructor to teach is one way of assigning him the status necessary to make you listen up and value his opinion.

Finally, many people do not really know what knowledge they should seek, nor the discipline to seek it themselves, and for them an instructor may be indispensible.

The better you are at learning, the easier you are to instruct. If you are really good at learning, you will be "instructed" by all you see. You can even learn from someone who is trying NOT to teach you, if you are a good enough student.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Great post Spider. St.

Drop1
06-01-2005, 09:15 PM
SpiderMan, Point well made,and I like that you use the phrase [some people] I could be one of those people that needs an instructor. I can't claim to be the brightest bulb in the box.

pooltchr
06-02-2005, 04:39 AM
Studies show that people retain information at different levels based on how it is presented:
Lecturing 5%
Reading 10%
Audio-visual 20%
Demonstration 30%
Discussion Group 50%
Practice by doing 75%
Teaching others 90%

A good instructor will incorporate as many of the different aspects as possible into a training course. After all, what good does it do to teach someone something if they aren't going to remember it?

Steve

LARRY_BOY
06-02-2005, 06:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Studies show that people retain information at different levels based on how it is presented:
Lecturing 5%
Reading 10%
Audio-visual 20%
Demonstration 30%
Discussion Group 50%
Practice by doing 75%
Teaching others 90%

A good instructor will incorporate as many of the different aspects as possible into a training course. After all, what good does it do to teach someone something if they aren't going to remember it?

Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Enjoyment from kicking your toughest practice partners butt with something you just learned.....100%. /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Deeman2
06-02-2005, 07:31 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Wow. If you are talking quality,that is dirt cheap. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">A good quality instructor is always dirt cheap. I always marvel at someone spending $500 for a cue and balking at $50 an hour instruction. </font color>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

It isn't necessarily the money. If I research and figure out something on my own, I value (and retain) if far more than if it had just been presented to me.

Also, I view an instructor's opinion on something as just that, an opinion, to be weighed in with my own thoughts and other resources on the topic. The amount of material readily available to research is phenomenal, compared to 20 years ago. It makes sense to take advantage of and integrate as much of it as possible.

Some people "need" an instructor to present a topic in a way that they can understand. Others may also need the mental crutch of having this information come from a source they respect. Paying the instructor to teach is one way of assigning him the status necessary to make you listen up and value his opinion.

Finally, many people do not really know what knowledge they should seek, nor the discipline to seek it themselves, and for them an instructor may be indispensible.

The better you are at learning, the easier you are to instruct. If you are really good at learning, you will be "instructed" by all you see. You can even learn from someone who is trying NOT to teach you, if you are a good enough student.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

Spiderman,

I agree with what you say. As you mention, some poeple need instruction and, perhaps, some don't. I think the value of instruction is in immediate feedback from an expert. There are many out there who read books and watch videos but can't apply the knowledge without a little help. Having a collection of well over 100 pool books, I think I have most of the knowledge that can be imparted via text. However, I still believe there is value in a good instructor. Jack Nickolas and Tiger Woods still have instructors. Why? Maybe an expert can see the little things they need to improve and not every good golfer is qualified to give them feedback.

While many may never need the services of an instructor or coach, there are many who just can't get the information (or learn to apply it)through other means. When I have sought instruction, I always listen to every word and instruction I get. I may later throw much of it out based on my knowledge and experience but I have never failed to gain some insight or knowledge from a qualified instructor. Too bad they can't help us with ageing eyes and declining interest. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font color>

Deeman

BigRigTom
06-02-2005, 09:39 AM
Deeman and Spiderman...I agree with you both just wanted to add my 2 cents.

I also read books, watch videos and research on the internet for new quality information. I have never had the pleasure of a professional paid instructor but I have been fortunate enough to know and play with some really good players, even a couple of lesser pros (if there is such a thing). I have made enormous strides as a result of these peoples generous sharing of knowledge, technique, experience and strategies.
One on One instruction from a knowledgible source is indispensible...anyone can benefit from it. As for being worth the price...well that is a personal judgement and each individual has to access the value on their own scale.

IMO the personal - one on one instruction is worth pursuit. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

JimS
06-03-2005, 06:14 AM
I've been helped a lot by instruction from three professional teachers (Jeff Carter, Mark Wilson and Frank "Sailor" Stellman) and two amatuer helpers that I would consider experts (Chris Cass/Aiardo and George Fels).

I can't see what I'm doing and it helps to have an expert watching and helping me make needed changes.

When I spent a few hundred for an afternoon with Mark Wilson he had me get my stroking arm elbow out away from my body. That simple change to my alingment brought my game up more than anything I'd tried in the past. Instant improvement!!

I think it pays to get expert help. It just makes sense... especially if you are a newcomer to pool.

Get started with the right habits.

ceebee
06-03-2005, 09:29 AM
Good Post Spidey...

One element that can come from employing a good instructor is this. A good Instructor can see what you are doing throughout the stroke, whereas the player may not or can not picture the total range of motion in their stroke. If an error is present, a good instructor might spot that very quickly.

Howsomeever, the Video Recorder can offer the player some very valuable assistance too. Employing the VCR &amp; DISCIPLINED STUDY might assist the player that does not have a local Instructor.

There is one serious problem that may arrise from learning on one's own. If you happen to incorporate some bad habits &amp; you continue to practice those bad habits, you will develop some negative muscle memory that you will have to overcome at some point.

I you play pool for FUN, have a great time. If you want to play Pool very good, for competition play, my advice is to take some lessons from a good instuctor. It won't take long for the player to realize some improvement in their game. After a good stroke &amp; some speed control are devloped, the learning of the game can begin.