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Barbarella
06-06-2005, 08:41 AM
If you had to choose one (okay, you can choose two) of the best professional pool instructors in the country today, who would they be? I will post the results in our pool news mag. Thanks for your vote!

pooltchr
06-06-2005, 08:47 AM
Randy Goettlicher

SpiderMan
06-06-2005, 08:55 AM
Robert Byrne has probably been responsible for dissemination of more accurate and informative information on pool, to a larger audience, than anyone else living or dead. I don't know if he gives "lessons".

SpiderMan

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbarella:</font><hr> If you had to choose one (okay, you can choose two) of the best professional pool instructors in the country today, who would they be? I will post the results in our pool news mag. Thanks for your vote! <hr /></blockquote>

Deeman2
06-06-2005, 09:03 AM
I know Randy but have not yet had the pleasure of his instruction.

Ones I've studied with.

Scott Lee
Grady Matthews
Jerry Breseith
Tim Miller
Jim Rempe
Bob Henning
Mike Segel
Jack Hunter
Louie Roberts
Oliver Ortman

All were excellent in their own way and I learned something from each.

Scott had the best pace and gives a lot for the money.
Grady is just a special person to work with and shows you stuff you can't believe, or in some cases do.

Jim Rempe has so much skill, it initimidates a lot of folks, same for Mike.
Louie was the worst teacher but more fun that any other two...
Oliver was the most serious, he worked you to death.

Tim is best at "touchy-feely" stuff.

I have to say, Jerry was the best I have seen so far. I'll let you know after I try Randy...

Funny, but after all that, I should be able to shoot by now...

Deeman

wolfdancer
06-06-2005, 09:05 AM
Robert Byrne would probably, rather give you a Billiards
lesson instead. His passion is Billiards, and he wasn't considered a great pool player, by the denizens of the old Palace Billiards in S.F.
Prety good Billiards player though.
Of course you don't have to be a good player to be a good teacher. I understand Randy, Scott, and Fran, "can't run 3 balls between them" lol

SpiderMan
06-06-2005, 09:31 AM
I think Jack Hunter gave lessons in life. I wish I'd known to pay attention back then, when he was always available.

SpiderMan

SpiderMan
06-06-2005, 09:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> Robert Byrne would probably, rather give you a Billiards
lesson instead. His passion is Billiards, and he wasn't considered a great pool player, by the denizens of the old Palace Billiards in S.F.
Prety good Billiards player though.<hr /></blockquote>

Maybe so, but he's in the Hall of Fame, and it's not for his three-cushion prowess /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

SpiderMan

wolfdancer
06-06-2005, 09:51 AM
I have great admiration for Robert Byrne....he led the way for
good instructional video, and wrote one of the best instructional books ever. he's also a nice guy in person.
And even his wife, the daughter of violinist Jascha Heifetz, has authored a book...not about pool.
Bob Jewett is good friends with Mr. Byrne...and could probably give you a better evaluation of him as a pool instructor.

SPetty
06-06-2005, 10:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbarella:</font><hr>I will post the results in our pool news mag. <hr /></blockquote>Who are you and what is your pool news mag? Did you poll your readers with this question?

Scott Lee
06-06-2005, 10:12 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I understand Randy, Scott, and Fran, "can't run 3 balls between them" lol <hr /></blockquote>

Jack...Having recently completed some additional "continued education", I can attest to the fact, that indeed, I CAN now run 3 balls! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott

Billy_Bob
06-06-2005, 10:14 AM
The best instructors - meaning those who have helped my game to improve the most are...

Dr. Dave and Jimmy Reid. Reading the things these two write about did not make me understand the value of what they were saying. It was seeing them demonstrate what they were talking about on their videos which really made everything "click" for me.

I guess a picture (video) is worth a thousand words!

Anyway I rarely scratch anymore thanks to Dr. Dave and his 30/90 degree rules. That is a BIG improvement in my game to say the least!

And I figured out position play with Jimmy Reid's video "The Art of 8 Ball". He explains what he is doing and why for each shot. He tells you what is going on inside his head - what he is thinking. This made me understand the "overall picture" of position play.

Dr. Dave's DVD...
http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/dvd_description.html

Jimmy Reid's DVD's...
http://www.freepoollessons.com/video/index.shtml

pooltchr
06-06-2005, 10:15 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> I understand Randy, Scott, and Fran, "can't run 3 balls between them" lol <hr /></blockquote>

Jack...Having recently completed some additional "continued education", I can attest to the fact, that indeed, I CAN now run 3 balls! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott <hr /></blockquote>

So you admit it!!! I expect the 6-out and the breaks next time we play!!! LOL

jpeters
06-06-2005, 10:39 AM
The Australian Oyster---Timothy White definetely has my vote!! :

Deeman2
06-06-2005, 10:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> I think Jack Hunter gave lessons in life. I wish I'd known to pay attention back then, when he was always available. <font color="blue">He did indeed. He sure could show you how to move that white rock around in one pocket. I would not want to patten the rest of my life after Jack, however. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif </font color>

Deeman

Scott Lee
06-06-2005, 10:43 AM
No problem Steve. Of course, now that I can "run 3 friggin' balls", my minimum bet per game has gone up considerably. We'll start at $10,000 a game! LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott

Stretch
06-06-2005, 11:02 AM
Fran Crimi. St

Popcorn
06-06-2005, 11:06 AM
Since so few people have ever taken lessons and of those who have, most will have maybe used only one instructor based on where they live so they can't compair. Many will say so and so is good without having ever taken a lesson from them. Your results will have no meaning at all other then to mention a few names.

pooltchr
06-06-2005, 11:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> No problem Steve. Of course, now that I can "run 3 friggin' balls", my minimum bet per game has gone up considerably. We'll start at $10,000 a game! LOL /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott <hr /></blockquote>

Great....oh wait a minute....Are you talking about those "thousand dollar bills"??????
Steve

Deeman2
06-06-2005, 11:21 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>
Great....oh wait a minute....Are you talking about those "thousand dollar bills"??????
Steve <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

Hey, I got stiffed with one of those "Scott" bills too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif</font color>

Deeman

Steve Lipsky
06-06-2005, 12:15 PM
I was just going to post something like this. I think the population of people taking lessons from more than one is fairly small, and the population taking lessons from many might be limited to Deeman2 /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

I think the article might be better with a slant of "These are some of the instructors across the country. Here is what some people have to say about them." You could also let the instructors themselves have a few paragraphs explaining their approach to teaching.

It's just an idea, but I agree with Popcorn. You won't have anywhere near the right sample size for a poll that would make any sense.

- Steve

wolfdancer
06-06-2005, 12:47 PM
It would be hard to choose one person as THE best instructor.
They all develope a teaching style, and that style may not work for everyone. As an example:
T.A. was too detail focused, minutia....I got easily bored, and so did many others.
DP was a feel player, and couldn't explain the mechanics of the stroke, too well.
TP seemed to be bored with instruction,minimal instr. once he had your $$
gave a lesson to my friend while he,TP, was playing a money match
CM probably gave out to much info during one lesson,... info overload.
I've heard nothing but good things about the Staff at Bob Jewett's school, and
my lesson with Scott went well, after we laid out some ground rules:
He wouldn't laugh at my feeble attempts to hit the cueball; I wouldn't laugh at his Hawiian shirts...and he's definately not a clock watcher....no forty-five minute "hours" with Scott.
My friend Glenn, that passed away all too soon in life, took too many lessons, I believe..from Jerry B...to all the locals, I guess, thinking that the next lesson would be the one to let him play at that next level.
There was an interesting book on communication by a Harvard Professor, on how we interpret info. We all filter it slightly, and change it a bit. There's a theory that if you tell one person a story in private, then they repeat it in private to another person...after about 20 times,if the last person to hear it, tells it to the first...they may not recognise it.
I wonder if that would hold true for pool instruction???

Barbara
06-06-2005, 12:54 PM
When I first started playing pool, I hooked up with "Trenton Marty" Ciccia for a few lessons. He taught me some shots and explained a few things to me, but never focused on any fundamentals.

I also learned a few things from Jimmy Caras before he passed. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I took a few lessons from Dawn Hopkins and she was the first person to begin to straighten out my stroke which helped me A LOT.

Then I holed up with Joe Tucker for a few days in Providence, RI and learned quite a bit from him.

I attended RandyG's traveling Pool School in CT in 2001 and also learned quite a bit from him and the other instructors that help me to this day.

And here and there I've gotten some fixes and pointers from Fran Crimi.

Out of all these people I can't really say who is the best because they all have different teaching styles and I learned different things from them.

For fundamentals I would have to say Dawn, RandyG and Fran were the best for me. For learning shots and pool stuff, Marty, Jimmy, and Joe were the best.

Barbara

Popcorn
06-06-2005, 01:21 PM
I don't know if you intended to, but you made a great point. You may get something from one instructor you don't get from another. A little here, a little there and before you know it you are on your way to being a player. Kind of how it works when you hang with players, each has something to offer in their own way.

Scott Lee
06-06-2005, 01:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman2:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr>
Great....oh wait a minute....Are you talking about those "thousand dollar bills"??????
Steve <hr /></blockquote> <font color="blue">

Hey, I got stiffed with one of those "Scott" bills too. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif</font color>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

Geez you guys! It's not MY fault if you can't find someone to CASH those for ya! Like I told both of you (and 1000's of others), IF you find someone to cash it, I'll split 50/50 with ya, and I've got a LOT more! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Scott

DebraLiStarr
06-06-2005, 01:45 PM
Scott Simpson - David Sapolis - Phil Capelle - Scott Lee

tateuts
06-06-2005, 01:51 PM
I have only had lessons from Scott Lee and I don't think I would want to get a different instructor. He teaches a classic style and zeroed in right away on what I needed to work on to get better.

I have overheard so much nonsense when it comes to pool, I don't trust too many people to mess with my game, but I trust Scott.

Chris

9 Ball Girl
06-06-2005, 02:14 PM
Tony Robles

wolfdancer
06-06-2005, 02:20 PM
Good point!!!

PQQLK9
06-06-2005, 04:30 PM
Scott Lee, Steve Jennings

Gayle in MD
06-06-2005, 05:11 PM
In chronological order...

Scott, Fran, Karen Corr, Julie Kelly.

Man, Have I ever been lucky, four terrific instructors!

I can truly say that each of them gave me very valuable instruction.

Gayle in Md.

Voodoo Daddy
06-06-2005, 05:40 PM
The best teachers werent teachers at all, they were players that answered questions with their games. I learned a ton from Nick Varner, Johnny Ervolino, Toby Sweet and the barrel full of Accustats tapes I have accumulated over the years. Danny Diliberto is a great teacher in the respect that he doesnt build you a watch with his knowledge...he just tells you what time it is with it. I have a number of hours of phone talk with Fran Crimi, who for sure knows her stuff.

I read where Hal Mix was a great teacher and Varner swore by him, while others were not as positive so its perception.

GreenLion
06-06-2005, 06:18 PM
Ive only had 1 lesson from Scott Lee,but he has brought my game up to a fantastic level!Im playing very well because of his instruction and for me to say that is alot cause i set high goals for myself.

JimS
06-07-2005, 04:47 AM
Who's "the best"? I've had lessons from about 6 different players/teachers. I guess that what Mark Wilson showed me changed my game more than any other but I don't know if that makes him the "best teacher".

His methods work well for me and I was ready for what he showed me. On the other hand, tips from Scott Lee and the help I got from CC were also very helpful.

I also benefited greatly from my interaction with George Fels, Jeff Carter and Frank "Sailor" Stellman. And.... many friends and players I've watched have helped.

Steve Lipsky
06-07-2005, 08:00 AM
I love your response, Voodoo. So true. Once you have developed pretty decent fundamentals, I agree the best way to learn the game is simply by watching great players. Live or on tape; each has unique benefits.

- Steve

raodwarior
06-07-2005, 08:17 AM
Current.... Tom Simpson

retired.. Jerry Bresaith

Qtec
06-07-2005, 09:11 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Once you have developed pretty decent fundamentals, I agree the best way to learn the game is simply by watching great players. Live or on tape; each has unique benefits.

<hr /></blockquote>
Just watching good players wont make you a better player. You can learn, but you have to know what you should be looking for.
Its not information thats makes you a better player, its the correct application of that information that makes you better. If it was so simple, everyone on this board could run 75 at 14/1. Everyone here has access to a vast amount of pool info on the web, but some still take lessons from an instructor. Why?
Can the instructor tell them something they dont already know about pool?
What they can do is tell them something about THEIR game and how to improve it.

Once you have good fundamentals, the game changes. No longer are you battling against the table, the fight becomes an internal one. You've been there; its hill-hill and the table is open and easy.
All you have to do is run out................... /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Qtec

SpiderMan
06-07-2005, 09:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Steve Lipsky:</font><hr> I love your response, Voodoo. So true. Once you have developed pretty decent fundamentals, I agree the best way to learn the game is simply by watching great players. Live or on tape; each has unique benefits.

- Steve <hr /></blockquote>

Whenever this topic has surfaced over the past three years, it seems the "more capable" players (who are these?) seem to lean toward association with players, personal research, and observation. Having passed the point where mystery abounds, perhaps these players have "learned how to learn".

Lower-level players seem more likely to report one-on-one instruction as the best way to learn.

An exception to the above is the skilled player who employs an instructor for his powers of observation, as in flaw detection or fundamental tune-up.

Then there's the intermediate player who becomes a "professional lesson-taker". We all know one of those, and I'm not sure where they fit. Is there a separate "Googan" class for fad-followers in personal training?

SpiderMan

Popcorn
06-07-2005, 11:14 AM
Getting around good players is what it takes to make you a polished player. I don't want to talk about myself but I used to play in a bowling alley and was the best player there. When I started venturing to the Congress billiards in Miami and hanging out (One of the top action rooms in the country at the time)in no time my game want through the roof . I was for months just a fly on the wall, I didn't really associate with the players that much but just practiced and watched, asked questions. It was not long before I was running a hundred on a regular basis and playing every game at a much higher level, matching up and beating players I would never have played before. I would go back to the places I used to hangout and it was like the children's hour. It's funny, the guys I thought played so good really couldn't play at all.

Lessons can't make this kind of change in your game, something else happens that can't be explained. You just get around good players and you find yourself playing better. Maybe it is because they make it look so easy and you see it can be done and you realize they are not really any different then you. When you watch bad players who are struggling, look scared, have no confidence, how can you be confident with that kind of input? You have to get away from that as fast as you can. When you are around good players, I guess psychologically, you just begin to feel you can do what they do, their confidence just rubs off and to a degree their skills. For anyone wanting to become a much better player, there is no substitute for being in the environment on good players. One can't become a top player practicing in their basement in a vacuum and I don't care how many lessons they take. They may play somewhat well from a technical stand point, but won't be any kind of player, or able to beat hardened experienced players. They will be a facsimile of a player there is just something missing that can't be taught, it has to be acquired.

DickLeonard
06-07-2005, 11:44 AM
Gayle I never saw you play, just dancing on Broadway butI would say if your hair hangs in your eyes when your playing that is a distraction.You need an Indian Warrior head band.####

SpiderMan
06-07-2005, 11:45 AM
Popcorn has illustrated what I meant by my previous post. (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=196184&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)

SpiderMan

Steve Lipsky
06-07-2005, 12:08 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> They will be a facsimile of a player there is just something missing that can't be taught, it has to be acquired. <hr /></blockquote>

In my opinion, this "something missing" is fairly tangible. It is the concept of getting out, no matter the circumstances. The person playing in a vacuum, as Popcorn suggests, will look at an almost impossible layout and not understand that great players just find a way to get out. They employ astounding creativity and heart to take advantage of an otherwise hopeless situation. You can't teach either of these things, and until you've seen it, it's just hard to imagine it.

The player in the vacuum just doesn't know what is really possible on a pool table, and he won't know until he's been exposed to it on a daily basis. Once you know something can be done, it becomes a helluva lot easier to do it yourself. Until you've been exposed to someone who might not miss one ball in two hours, it's just hard to believe that it's possible.

As for making the tough shots in that difficult layout... there are many great players who are not great shotmakers. But they come with it when they have to. They just refuse to miss. This is an attitude you learn when you are surrounded by other people who won't miss in a key situation.

- Steve

SPetty
06-07-2005, 12:26 PM
Real nice post, Popcorn...<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> When you watch bad players who are struggling, look scared, have no confidence, how can you be confident with that kind of input? You have to get away from that as fast as you can. <hr /></blockquote>I think you just hit on why I'm probably not going to play in league next year... /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Fred Agnir
06-07-2005, 01:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Lessons can't make this kind of change in your game, something else happens that can't be explained. You just get around good players and you find yourself playing better. Maybe it is because they make it look so easy and you see it can be done and you realize they are not really any different then you. <hr /></blockquote>I agree with this 100%. To take it further, watching really top players practicing outrageous shots allows most players to see what the uncontrolled limits of possibilities are. When the pros tone it down for tourney play, the average decent player will see what the controlled possibilities are.

Learning from better players ... it's everyone's next step.

Fred

ccrider
06-07-2005, 04:33 PM
The best instructor is experience, learning from your mistakes and not repeating them. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Gayle in MD
06-08-2005, 04:16 AM
LMAO! Now, how the hell did you know that just from a picture? You're dead on friend! If I go too long between haircuts, my game suffers! It's really just a trick I use so I'll have a good excuse, ya know, can always blame my hair, LOL.

Gayle in Md. I love you Dick! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

DickLeonard
06-08-2005, 08:32 AM
Gayle in my day my nickname was The Flaw Man. I would play with World Class Players and in one minute I could tell their flaws my only problem was I didn't tell them. I would tell the people I knew and once they saw them play. They would say geez your right.####

richld
06-08-2005, 09:10 AM
In my opinion the best instructor is Tom Simpson of Columbus, Ohio. This man has if all together.Check out his website, www.PoolClinics.com (http://www.PoolClinics.com) <font color="blue"> </font color> <font color="black"> </font color>

SpiderMan
06-08-2005, 10:23 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote richld:</font><hr> In my opinion the best instructor is Tom Simpson of Columbus, Ohio. This man has if all together.Check out his website, www.PoolClinics.com (http://www.PoolClinics.com) <font color="blue"> </font color> <font color="black"> </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Both you and "tsimpson" are newly-registered this morning. He made a commercial post (responding to Sid Vicious) advertising break cues, which appears to have been deleted. Shortly afterward, you posted this pointer to his web site. Are you associated?

SpiderMan

richld
06-08-2005, 10:45 AM
I just returned from a lesson that he gave this weekend. It was terrific. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

nhp
06-08-2005, 09:19 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Lessons can't make this kind of change in your game, something else happens that can't be explained. You just get around good players and you find yourself playing better. Maybe it is because they make it look so easy and you see it can be done and you realize they are not really any different then you. <hr /></blockquote>I agree with this 100%. To take it further, watching really top players practicing outrageous shots allows most players to see what the uncontrolled limits of possibilities are. When the pros tone it down for tourney play, the average decent player will see what the controlled possibilities are.

Learning from better players ... it's everyone's next step.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

I heard a few people say that you can only be as good as the best player at your poolroom, until you leave and are around even better players. What is your opinion on that?

DickLeonard
06-09-2005, 05:08 AM
Gayle I saw Jennifer Lee playing Alison Fisher the other day,I would bet if she wore a head band of billiard balls she would play 10 to 15% better. She was always adjusting her hair instead on concentrating on the match.

Alison was in short hair and never had to take her mind off of the match. Jen looks good as the Black Widow but it detracts from her game.####

DebraLiStarr
06-09-2005, 05:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Gayle I saw Jennifer Lee playing Alison Fisher the other day,
.....#### <hr /></blockquote>

With all due respect, her name is Jeanette. She makes more money from her image than she does with pool. That makes her a smart cookie!

Fred Agnir
06-09-2005, 06:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote nhp:</font><hr>
I heard a few people say that you can only be as good as the best player at your poolroom, until you leave and are around even better players. What is your opinion on that? <hr /></blockquote>Yeah, I agree mostly to this. You can't get much better if you don't know what's possible, I guess.


Fred

Qtec
06-09-2005, 07:25 AM
Popcorn,
[ QUOTE ]
Getting around good players is what it takes to make you a polished player. I don't want to talk about myself but I used to play in a bowling alley and was the best player there. When I started venturing to the Congress billiards in Miami and hanging out (One of the top action rooms in the country at the time)in no time my game want through the roof . I was for months just a fly on the wall, I didn't really associate with the players that much but just practiced and watched, asked questions. It was not long before I was running a hundred on a regular basis and playing every game at a much higher level, matching up and beating players I would never have played before. I would go back to the places I used to hangout and it was like the children's hour. It's funny, the guys I thought played so good really couldn't play at all. <hr /></blockquote>

Qtec,
[ QUOTE ]
Just [ meaning, only] watching good players wont make you a better player. You can learn, but you have to know what you should be looking for.
Its not information thats makes you a better player, its the correct application of that information that makes you better. <hr /></blockquote>

So you were gathering info and applying that in your practice!

Qtec ??????????????????????? ......try reading my post again P............

Joel
06-09-2005, 08:52 AM
I have taken lessons from 3 well knowns...my choice by far:

Bert Kinnister.

Scott Lee
06-09-2005, 01:03 PM
Debra...Perhaps you should READ a little closer. Jennifer Lee is an up and coming young pro from Los Angeles. Dick said Jen "looked" like the Black Widow, not WAS the Black Widow. You owe Mr. Leonard an apology!

Scott Lee

9 Ball Girl
06-09-2005, 01:14 PM
Yah, I've heard of her. I think she plays out of Hard Times?

woody_968
06-09-2005, 04:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote raodwarior:</font><hr>

retired.. Jerry Bresaith <hr /></blockquote>

I have worked with several instructors that have helped me, but to pick one I would have to say Jerry is the best.

And he is not retired. I spoke with him just a couple weeks ago and plan on getting with him soon for my BCA instructor recognition.

DickLeonard
06-09-2005, 05:40 PM
Scott, Debra was right in correcting my error. That could be my first time watching nineball on TV. I think nineball is like watching grass grow. Advertising budgets dry up and new stars appear out of nowhere, todays darlings are tommorrow castaways. ####

TomBrooklyn
06-09-2005, 10:54 PM
The best instructor I ever had was Fast Larry Guninger (http://www.fastlarrypool.com/getlessons.htm), the best shotmaker BCA Hall of Famer Ray Martin said he ever saw.

Gayle in MD
06-09-2005, 11:56 PM
If you don't come for a visit soon, I'm going to have you kidnapped. Not trying to scare you or anything, just giving you fair warning.....

Love,
Gayle /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Gayle in MD
06-10-2005, 12:14 AM
I haven't seen Jennifer play yet. You're right though Dick, it is bad if you have anything distracting you. I should carry a barette in my case.

I like the way Alison dresses. I've seen Jeanette in some get ups that made me wonder how she could play as well as she does with all that Hair, and the constant tugging on the shoulders to keep the cleavage in. I know the men like this, and it's Marketing, but as woman, I prefer to see the gals dress sensibly, and with class, kind of casual with comfort.

Gayle in Md.

DebraLiStarr
06-10-2005, 04:55 AM
Scott,
I went back and read it twice. I still don't see where he says "Jenny" Lee looks like Jeannette Lee. It says that she looks good "as" the Black Widow. To me its not clear at all.
<font color="blue">Jen looks good as the Black Widow but it detracts from her game.#### </font color>

Jenny Lee is not trying to be The Black Widow. I apologize if I corrected #### without cause, but he said I was right.


Okay everybody... lets play a GAME!!!!

Scott Lee
Jenny Lee
Jeanette Lee
Debra Li

One of these things is not like the others
One of these things just doesn't belong
Come on Scott, you know the song!!!!

Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song?

Did you guess which thing was not like the others?
Did you guess which thing just doesn't belong?
If you guessed this one is not like the others,
<font color="red"> Scott's caucasian!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font color>

Then you're absolutely...right!


Three of these people belong together
Three of these people are kind of the same
Can you guess which one of these doesn't belong here?
Now it's time to play our game (time to play our game).
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LOL
Are you saying we all look alike?

j/k
/ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/ooo.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

We should all start our day with a happy song and positive thoughts!
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00016XO6U.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg


Today's message has been brought to you by.... THE NUMBER 1
http://www.bakingshop.com/bc/img/SS-8066.jpg

JimS
06-10-2005, 04:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> I haven't seen Jennifer play yet. You're right though Dick, it is bad if you have anything distracting you. I should carry a barette in my case.

I like the way Alison dresses. I've seen Jeanette in some get ups that made me wonder how she could play as well as she does with all that Hair, and the constant tugging on the shoulders to keep the cleavage in. I know the men like this, and it's Marketing, but as woman, I prefer to see the gals dress sensibly, and with class, kind of casual with comfort.

Gayle in Md.

<hr /></blockquote>

I agree. Jeanette's dress is not sexy ... imo, it's trashy ... but I'm old /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

SpiderMan
06-10-2005, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DebraLiStarr:</font><hr>
Scott Lee
Jenny Lee
Jeanette Lee
Debra Li

One of these things is not like the others
One of these things just doesn't belong
Come on Scott, you know the song!!!!

If you guessed this one is not like the others,
<font color="red"> Scott's caucasian!!! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif </font color>

Then you're absolutely...right!
<hr /></blockquote>

I think all three are far more beautiful than Scott, but maybe it's because I'm Caucasian /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

SpiderMan

MosconiJr
06-10-2005, 10:03 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr> Getting around good players is what it takes to make you a polished player. I don't want to talk about myself but I used to play in a bowling alley and was the best player there. When I started venturing to the Congress billiards in Miami and hanging out (One of the top action rooms in the country at the time)in no time my game want through the roof.

Lessons can't make this kind of change in your game, something else happens that can't be explained. You just get around good players and you find yourself playing better.<hr /></blockquote>

I also agree with Popcorn. But taking an occasional lesson doesn't hurt either. And in choosing an instructor, I like no nonsense teachers who don't use alot of analogies, fluff, etc. I would have to choose Don Feeney as my favorite.

MosconiJr

Scott Lee
06-10-2005, 11:38 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> The best instructor I ever had was Fast Larry Guninger (http://www.fastlarrypool.com/getlessons.htm), the best shotmaker BCA Hall of Famer Ray Martin said he ever saw. <hr /></blockquote>

So Tom, did you hear this from Ray's mouth, or are you relying on Larry's "publicity"? Good to see that FL can indeed get along with at least ONE person! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif I've always agreed with others here, in saying he has a lot he COULD offer...he just chooses not to, for the most part!

Scott Lee

Stretch
06-10-2005, 02:09 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> If you don't come for a visit soon, I'm going to have you kidnapped. Not trying to scare you or anything, just giving you fair warning.....

Love,
Gayle /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>

Hey Gayle! On my way down in Sept. i pass handy to Troy..........i know where he lives /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif lol if he dosn't make it down to see ya "soon". I'll drag him down myself!

Got plenty of room in the Dodge Van ####!! St.

Troy
06-10-2005, 02:39 PM
Yes indeed, TomB is severely brainwashed...

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> The best instructor I ever had was Fast Larry Guninger (http://www.fastlarrypool.com/getlessons.htm), the best shotmaker BCA Hall of Famer Ray Martin said he ever saw. <hr /></blockquote>

SPetty
06-10-2005, 03:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Yes indeed, TomB is severely brainwashed...<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr> The best instructor I ever had was Fast Larry Guninger (http://www.fastlarrypool.com/getlessons.htm), the best shotmaker BCA Hall of Famer Ray Martin said he ever saw. <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>Or maybe a little more open minded than most?

SPetty
06-10-2005, 03:32 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbarella:</font><hr>I will post the results in our pool news mag.<hr /></blockquote>Well, I can honestly say that I still want to know who you are and what your pool news mag is. Did you poll your readers with this question?

And a couple of new questions for you: What did you learn from this thread? What results will you be posting in your pool news mag?

Billy
06-10-2005, 03:45 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Debra...Perhaps you should READ a little closer. Jennifer Lee is an up and coming young pro from Los Angeles. Dick said Jen "looked" like the Black Widow, not WAS the Black Widow. You owe Mr. Leonard an apology!

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

with all due respect I too saw ####'s post as an error

you were corrected,you've posted since and didn't reply to Debra

don't ya think you owe her an apology?

jmo

SpiderMan
06-10-2005, 03:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SPetty:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Barbarella:</font><hr>I will post the results in our pool news mag.<hr /></blockquote>Well, I can honestly say that I still want to know who you are and what your pool news mag is. Did you poll your readers with this question?

And a couple of new questions for you: What did you learn from this thread? What results will you be posting in your pool news mag? <hr /></blockquote>

It's probably a weekly publication read by about a hundred people (half of Montana) in some ghost town, but I don't think anyone cares about the original post anymore. As with all topics whose time has come, the thread has taken on a life of it's own.

SpiderMan

DebraLiStarr
06-10-2005, 04:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> Debra...Perhaps you should READ a little closer. Jennifer Lee is an up and coming young pro from Los Angeles. Dick said Jen "looked" like the Black Widow, not WAS the Black Widow. You owe Mr. Leonard an apology!

Scott Lee <hr /></blockquote>

with all due respect I too saw ####'s post as an error

you were corrected,you've posted since and didn't reply to Debra

don't ya think you owe her an apology?

jmo

<hr /></blockquote>

It's okay Billy. I just think its funny that Scott explained to me who Jenny Lee was. Jenny Lee is a friend of mine and she's not a spider! Scott, I'll let you off easy and it is only because you have a pretty cool last name.


This is Jenny
http://www.wpba.com/images/Nat03Jenny.jpg

Cueless Joey
06-10-2005, 05:12 PM
Isn't Jenny married to One-Pocket Richard?
The same Jenny who jumped over the railing of HT and got it on against Richard's opponent and his loudmouth backer? /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Scott, you better not mess with Jenny. All 90 lbs. of her.
Jenny and Mark are great people.
Didn't Jenny upset the Black Widow a year or two ago in San Diego?
Jenny can shoot and has more gamble on her than a lot of nutfinders at HT.
Joey~Wondering if he's got the right Jenny~

Gayle in MD
06-10-2005, 05:43 PM
Great! Go Get him! I have plenty of room here, and would love to have you also Stretch! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
]Love,
Gayle

Stretch
06-11-2005, 03:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Gayle in MD:</font><hr> Great! Go Get him! I have plenty of room here, and would love to have you also Stretch! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
]Love,
Gayle <hr /></blockquote>

It's in the works beby, it's in the works. St.~~looking for danceing lessons too lol~~

TomBrooklyn
06-11-2005, 03:15 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Scott Lee:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>Fast Larry Guninger, the best shotmaker Ray Martin said he ever saw.<hr /></blockquote>Tom, did you hear this from Ray's mouth?<hr /></blockquote> Hi Scott,
No, I didn't hear Ray say that myself, but I don't think the Fast One would say it if it wasn't true. I would have checked on it for you, but Ray changed his phone number and I don't have his new one.

Troy
06-11-2005, 03:25 PM
Not only is TomB severely brainwashed, but also severely delusional.
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote TomBrooklyn:</font><hr>.....I don't think the Fast One would say it if it wasn't true. <hr /></blockquote>

DickLeonard
06-12-2005, 09:20 AM
Steve I always give credit to Joe Canton for making the player I was but it wasn't Joe teaching me, it was watching him and observing him. In the three solid years I played with him, he might have played two 3 cushion shots.

Irving Crane and Willie Mosconi played more three cushion position shots in the 4 games I played them than Joe did in 3 years of playing him. My family Dr. a math genius and pool bug always called me a spatial genius.

He never seen me play what he considered the wrong shot
When I played Johnny Ervolino in Rochester every time I played a shot he had never seen before he would stop me and say you played that that way and I would tell him yes and he would say when I get back to New York I am going to practice that shot.

Don Willis would always tell me that Cowboy Jimmy Moore would always say if I knew what Joe Canton knew about straight pool Willie Mosconi would never beat me a game. I had played Joe easy 4000 games and had picked up all his moves.

His best moves was playing straight rail billiards with the rack of balls. Creating break shots,key balls etc his last 5 balls were the same rack after rack.####

Nostroke
06-12-2005, 12:37 PM
Jenny is tough competitor-Just look at that face!!

She finished 9th in Reno maybe 2-3 years ago vs a field of 250-men and maybe 7 ladies. I could be off on the size of the field but not by much.

Kevin_in_Japan
06-13-2005, 11:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote JimS:</font><hr> Who's "the best"? I've had lessons from about 6 different players/teachers. I guess that what Mark Wilson showed me changed my game more than any other but I don't know if that makes him the "best teacher".

His methods work well for me and I was ready for what he showed me. <hr /></blockquote>

Taking it back to the topic, there are some important points hit in this thread so far.

First, who your best instructor could be depends on your level, and what they catch that can help you, some do better on fundamentals, others are better at teaching strategy/mental game.

I've played for 30yrs, but Jan McWhorter and Jerry Briesath were good at clueing me in to fundamentals I was botching. Without being able to deliver the cue (and cue ball) consistently where you intend means you really really need work there. And sadly no book or instructor can do that hard work for you, it is just you, the practice table, straight-in shots, cut shots, drills with percentages (X out of 20 same shots, how many times correctly?)

No amount of advanced strategy is going far if you can't stroke consistently, hit the cueball exactly where you intend giving precise english, thus ultimately moving whitey where intended, whitey does not lie, Jerry says. You may THINK you hit here, but results show a "Circle of Error" in tip striking the cue ball. Jerry suggested I go to Randy Goettlicher next, FWIW.

Beyond that, there is much to learn from books and videos, Byrne's first, then anything Grady Mathews is good value for kicking, banks, and all things one-pocket. Capelle... hack writer with word processor on my favorite subject, with some excellent points made... mixed bag there. Drill books like Bob Henning's Pro Book, Kinister tape (60 min workout)... lots of practical stuff there to work into your game.

Eddie Robin's one-pocket books improve on Byrne's watershed Standard Book of Pool. Nick Varner's Billiards library 9-ball tape made a great point about keeping the cue going away from the rails, Preacher Feeney's diamond system tape I will sell to the highest bidder, that was poor value, And Grady oversimplified 3C shots too, so I find Byrne's book is 50 times better, but then I play 3C as well and kick like a mule in pocket games, often getting the hit and safe.

Accustat tapes are great product, Bill Incardona's one pocket tape is good value.

Great players in person you shoot against teach you how far you have to go to get to your level of acceptance... They show you the mountain you have yet to climb, the level of technical skill, the mental focus and determination necessary, and how it can flow naturally...

I will admit some of the mental folks like The Monk I just don't get yet (may need to reread it)... right now I can't say much for it, but in time to come I may get there where it is the staircase for the next level up on the journey.

Finally, Fast Larry.
Well. First, don't discount his skills, he has incredible hand-eye coordination and can bounce balls off the floor, shoot them mid-air, and make balls downtable, wing shots, stroke shots... all on tape, apparently, unfortunately he also seems to have a correspondingly huge ego needing stroking by Guinness book of world record, accolades, universal praise, etc. that make him a great show but a poor communicator easily ridiculed by us peanuts in the internet gallery... great talent gets tortured, I suppose. Nobody said pool skills could or would make you happy or wealthy in life.

Maybe it is like life, that your best instructor is just one step ahead of where you are right now, and remembers what it took to get to the next level up.

cueball1950
06-13-2005, 06:11 PM
Gayle,,, i could also drop him off on my way to the Open in Sept. heck. he only lives 5 minutes from me. but i don't get to see him that often. just don't travel in the same circles. but i would be willing to bring him down..............................mike

Gayle in MD
06-13-2005, 06:59 PM
Hi Mike,
How's it going friend.
Well, as long as you, and Stretch and Dick all get here, that's all that counts!
Gayle in Md. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BANKS77
08-17-2005, 12:48 AM
Is Sailor still alive and well?? I've been away from the game for a decade so I have a lot of catching up to do. I took lessons from Frank back in the 80s. Before meeting him my high runs in 14.1 was some ugly out of position 50s. Six weeks after working with him I had broken my cherry with a 108 (then I switched to one pocket but that's another story). The point is Sailor is one of the greatest pool instructors on the planet yet he is only known to the cognoscenti of pool. Also he was one of the greatest straight pool players in the midwest throughout the 60s. I forgot what room he use to frequent but the locals say every day he would run 200 balls in practice sessions. He even busted Mataya in 9 ball when Jimmy was tops.
Anyway, is Sailor still around I tried his old number, still works but no answer, then again Sailor was never one who answered phones much. I started thinking of him the other day when I pulled out one of my old Sailor cues and started running racks where my expensive exotics failed. Eleven years in the closet and the shafts are still straight. If he still around I'm going to have to take a ride up to Racine. Hope he still doesn't have that guard dog on the roof!

dmgwalsh
08-17-2005, 07:09 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote BANKS77:</font><hr> Is Sailor still alive and well?? I've been away from the game for a decade so I have a lot of catching up to do. I took lessons from Frank back in the 80s. Before meeting him my high runs in 14.1 was some ugly out of position 50s. Six weeks after working with him I had broken my cherry with a 108 (then I switched to one pocket but that's another story). The point is Sailor is one of the greatest pool instructors on the planet yet he is only known to the cognoscenti of pool. Also he was one of the greatest straight pool players in the midwest throughout the 60s. I forgot what room he use to frequent but the locals say every day he would run 200 balls in practice sessions. He even busted Mataya in 9 ball when Jimmy was tops.
Anyway, is Sailor still around I tried his old number, still works but no answer, then again Sailor was never one who answered phones much. I started thinking of him the other day when I pulled out one of my old Sailor cues and started running racks where my expensive exotics failed. Eleven years in the closet and the shafts are still straight. If he still around I'm going to have to take a ride up to Racine. Hope he still doesn't have that guard dog on the roof! <hr /></blockquote>

I spoke to Sailor about a week ago and he could be reached at : SAILOR OF RACINE (Frank Stellman)
1649 TAYLOR AVENUE
racine,wi 53403
262 488-5668
2-6pm and 8pm-12
belle city billiards company

I called him again on Thursday and on Monday and left messages but haven't heard from him.

I bought a cue from him after taking several lessons and the cue hits very nice. He came down to Chicago last month and brought 4 of his students to Pockets to enter a straight pool tournament, where one of them tied for first. He's trying to get some sort of 14.1 tournament going in Wisconsin and still gives lessons. Dennis

rukiddingme
08-17-2005, 05:18 PM
I saw him a couple of weeks ago.
Same wacky sense of humour and lots and lots of pool stories.
Great teacher as well...You would'nt happen to have a Sailor cue you want to part with BANKS?
ruk

dmgwalsh
08-17-2005, 06:55 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote rukiddingme:</font><hr> I saw him a couple of weeks ago.
Same wacky sense of humour and lots and lots of pool stories.
Great teacher as well...You would'nt happen to have a Sailor cue you want to part with BANKS?
ruk <hr /></blockquote>

Veronique:

He told me today that you were going to be working his 14.1 tournament in October. He said he and Bob and John Might come down to Pockets this Sunday for the 14.1 tournament. Let me know if you guys come down. Dennis