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View Full Version : Cueball1950 Backward cutting of Shots



DickLeonard
06-13-2005, 06:17 AM
Mike tell the board what Johnny Ervolino had to say about cutting balls backwards into the pockets.####

PQQLK9
06-13-2005, 07:44 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> Mike tell the board what Johnny Ervolino had to say about cutting balls backwards into the pockets.#### <hr /></blockquote>

Yes Mike, please tell us. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif bump

ras314
06-13-2005, 09:27 AM
CB in the air?

~~waiting for Mike's answer~~

cueball1950
06-13-2005, 03:59 PM
I was at the old Golden Cue on queens blvd in queens for a Joss tournament and i got to play Johnny some billiards. i had met Johnny several times before and we used to talk of the old days all the time and especially about the great 14.1 players up in the Albany NY area, players like Joe canton, And dick leonard as well. Johnny told me that he has never in his life seen a player that could back cut a ball like Dick does for /on a break shot. he told me that he thought dick was just always unlucky by getting that type of position all the time. Until after 1 particular rack he finally asked dick how he always wound up in such bad position like that and dick finally told him that these touch back cuts on the break shots were always planned and not bad luck. johnny told me that he told dick that he was going home to practice that shot until he could master it. problem johnny told me was that he could never master that shot and finally gave up on it and told me that dick was a master of al the ames on the table since he could shoot that shot effortlessly like he does. as a side note, he also told me that dick is the best opposite hand player he had ever seen. told me dick could run 100 balls with either hand. but that i already had known since dick played me 1 day 150 to 75 and he had to shoot left handed. i broke and he ran 78 balls on me....lol...did not win anyway.....mike

DickLeonard
06-14-2005, 05:46 AM
Mike now I am sorry that I didn't show Johnny the secret of shooting that shot, of course I probably wouldn't play him anymore for money, he would always play safe when he left himself that shot. After I told him that I played for that angle he said I see why, you hit the rack dead on and the balls spread out and the cueball stays right there.

OF all the players I ever played Johnny was the most astute player. He was always asking did you play that shot that way and then he would say I just learned something. Most players are just waiting for the miss, he was always observing intensely and storing the information.####

SpiderMan
06-14-2005, 07:00 AM
Mike,

By "back cut on the break" I'm assuming you mean something very thin, like a 90-degree cut, on the break shot? What is the advantage of this, other than the CB doesn't get slowed down much due to contact? I'm having a hard time understanding why a 90-degree cut would be preferred over a 75-degree cut, since the CB speed would be about the same in either.

Also it seems that if you were intentionally playing for a 90-degree leave, and you were a little off, you could wind up with an impossible shot and end your run.

I don't play straight pool much, so if these are really basic questions it's because I haven't seen the situation that often.

SpiderMan

Fran Crimi
06-14-2005, 07:29 AM
That's a good shot, Dick. Most straight pool players don't think about going for such a severe angle...I know I didn't. But there's no scratch there. That's big. Every time you go off the side of the pack with speed, there's always the potential for the scratch, except when you go straight into the side of the pack. Great idea if you can make the shot.

So, how did you shoot the shot? Did you let the cue stick go or use a little inside?

Johnny taught me how to back cut a ball with inside and go 3 rails for position in 9 ball. He said it was one of his favorite shots. It's now one of my favorite shots.

Fran

DickLeonard
06-14-2005, 08:02 AM
Fran I hold my post to that I want to see if any one comes up with the shot.####

Qtec
06-14-2005, 08:30 AM
I like this, but I need more info. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Dick, you say 'head on' but Fran says 'side of the pack'.
Which is it?

Fran, you say a 3 rail shot to the 9, but where is the 9? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Qtec......interesting. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

cueball1950
06-14-2005, 02:28 PM
I don't know how to use the wei table or i would set it up for you. so try to imagine the object ball near the middle ball of a new rack. now picture the cueball near the rail somewhere about 2 1/2 diamonds up from the botom rail. it is the severest angle that i have ever seen anybody shoot it. to this day i still cannot make it and i have used all kinds of english trying it. the closest i have ever come was the object ball hitting the bottom rail about 1 inch from the pocket.....so please tell us Mr. leonard... what is the secret.......................mike

Fran Crimi
06-14-2005, 06:51 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Qtec:</font><hr> I like this, but I need more info. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
Dick, you say 'head on' but Fran says 'side of the pack'.
Which is it?

<font color="blue">Same thing, different wording. Something like this: </font color>

wei table (http://endeavor.med.nyu.edu/~wei/pool/9egg/)

START(
%AO1U8%BL8P7%CJ7O4%DL8N2%EM7P1%FK7P1%GK7N8%HM7N8%I L7O4%JK8M6
%KJ7P7%LJ7N2%MK7Q3%NJ6Q9%OJ7M0%PR4W5%WP2U5%XQ8V9%[M2R2%\O6U0
)END

Fran, you say a 3 rail shot to the 9, but where is the 9? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Qtec......interesting. /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

<font color="blue"> No, I wrote "IN 9 ball" not THE 9 ball. Here's an example: </font color>


START(
%Fa4S7%GD3M6%H`9Q1%Ip3J7%PR7S6%Ub2C8%Vs1S2%W`3T2%X S2S8%Yh8[0
%Z`7T3%[r7T1%\i5[6%]K4U7%^a7C2%eA2a2%bq1F6%cl0K2%da9S4
)END

cueball1950
06-14-2005, 07:13 PM
dick....were you pulling a cicero move on that shot....lololol

anyway... the saddest part of all this is the last time i actually got to see Johnny and talk to him was that tournament at the golden cue in Queens. as a matter of fact, fran might not remember this but it was also on that day that i met Fran Crimi. she was sitting by the rail waiting for her name to be called to play her match and i walked over and introduced myself as cueball1950/aka mike. so anyway, Johnny kept asking me to come to some room that he was working part time at. i think it was in staten island. gosh i don't remember. i kept promising him i would come over top play him some. never made it. he was looking to play santos some 1 pocket after that tournament. they agreed to play on the following wednesday and i believe santos and his backers never showed. i remember johnny being more disappointed than mad at the time. gosh i am going to miss his quick wit..He would always tell the story about him and 4 other guys all getting into a big caddy to go on the road and all they had between them was $20.00 when they left NY and headed north and west. he used to brag how they all slept in the caddy and would pick up games for a buck or so until the bank roll got real large. he claimed that by the time they got to buffalo that they had over $2,000 in their bank. then on the way back they would go thru the small towns and pick up another $1,000 and when they got back to NYC they would all go out to eat expensive. Johnny had a million stories. to bad he did not write a book about all his escapades...RIP my friend, and give them 8/7............................mike

cueball1950
06-14-2005, 09:26 PM
by the way Fran, if you do remember that day i 1st met you i am sorry if i scared you in any way. i mean i would be scared if some man in a rough scraggley beard and long hair came up to me and introduced myself. hell, i think that day i looked like a homeless person now that i think about it. oh well, when we get to the open this year everybody will be surprised when the "real" me shows up........mike

Fran Crimi
06-15-2005, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote cueball1950:</font><hr> by the way Fran, if you do remember that day i 1st met you i am sorry if i scared you in any way. i mean i would be scared if some man in a rough scraggley beard and long hair came up to me and introduced myself. hell, i think that day i looked like a homeless person now that i think about it. oh well, when we get to the open this year everybody will be surprised when the "real" me shows up........mike <hr /></blockquote>


HAHAHA! I remember that night very well, Mike. Are you kidding? You were in perfect Golden Q dress code. As soon as I heard you speak I knew you were triple smart, so I figured maybe you were on the lamb. LOL! Don't laugh...we had this guy there who was a regular for 10 years. Heck of a nice guy, or so I thought. I used to practice with him all the time. Then one day the cops came in and hauled him off. Turns out he was a notorious mob hit man on the lamb, wanted in 5 states. Geez....LOL!

Fran...looking forward to meeting the real Mike. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

cueball1950
01-06-2007, 07:54 PM
Hey Dick....you never did reply and explain the shot in question...Now the subject has been brought up again in another post.................mike