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hhsaloon
06-13-2005, 04:40 PM
It seems that if I use a half tip or so of outside english on long cut shots my accuracy is considerably better than center ball hit. At first I thought that maybe I THOUGHT I was hitting outside due to vision issues but was really hitting center so I tested my stroke by hitting the cueball down table to see if it would return back to my cue tip. When I did the test with center ball the cue returned to my cue tip. So I have to assume that my vision is "OK".

Has anyone else experienced this and know why it happens? It tends to create problems if I need center or inside english for position.

Thanks.

short_bridge
06-14-2005, 12:12 AM
i've read somewhere in easypooltutor.com that adding a bit of outside english removes the "cling"-friction when the two ball collide. thus when you try to shot the same shot with center ball, you have to overcut the object ball to compensate for the "cling" effect.

littleCajun
06-14-2005, 05:41 AM
short_bridge,
you are correct about english cutting down throw. This may or may not be hhsaloon problem. He may be having a contact point versus aim point problem.

hhsaloo, When you try your long cut , are you overcutting or undercutting the ball with a center ball hit?

hhsaloon
06-14-2005, 08:37 AM
Thanks for the responses. Typically with a center ball hit I'll tend to overcut a little, but enough to catch the edge of the pocket and and the OB will rattle in the jaws.

A bad point of aim could very well be the problem and I had given consideration that the little outside english was "deflecting" the cue to the proper aim point.

I'll practice adjusting the aim point using center and see what happens. Thanks all.

dr_dave
06-14-2005, 09:07 AM
Outside English creates squirt and curve, but it can reduce throw. For certain shot speeds, distances, and cue stick elevations (for a given cue stick), the squirt and curve effects can cancel, and you will get just the benefit of reduced throw. For more info, see the links to various threads under the "English deflection," "English curve" and "throw" headings on my threads summary webpage (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html).

Happy reading,
Dave
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote hhsaloon:</font><hr> It seems that if I use a half tip or so of outside english on long cut shots my accuracy is considerably better than center ball hit. At first I thought that maybe I THOUGHT I was hitting outside due to vision issues but was really hitting center so I tested my stroke by hitting the cueball down table to see if it would return back to my cue tip. When I did the test with center ball the cue returned to my cue tip. So I have to assume that my vision is "OK".

Has anyone else experienced this and know why it happens? It tends to create problems if I need center or inside english for position.

Thanks. <hr /></blockquote>

sack316
06-14-2005, 10:20 AM
that's weird, because for me I actually tend to use inside english on the long cut shots. For some reason I'm more comfortable that way

dr_dave
06-14-2005, 10:29 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr> that's weird, because for me I actually tend to use inside english on the long cut shots. For some reason I'm more comfortable that way <hr /></blockquote>
The squirt you are getting from the inside English might be offsetting possible aiming error. Without the squirt, you would probably undercut your shots (i.e., come up short of the pocket) more. I think it is better to try to improve your aim rather than rely on squirt, which can vary with shot distance, speed, tip offset, and cue stick.

Dave

sack316
06-14-2005, 11:28 AM
thanks Dr. Dave. Me and a friend actually talked about that a few weeks back. I've become so reliant on using the inside english based purely on the comfort level, that sometimes I'll even use it when it's cutting against the angle that I need to use for position on the next shot, requiring me to be too precise on my speed for shape. Whereas if I could use outside or centerball hit on the original shot I could be gaining position a lot easier in certain situations. Guess I know what I'll be working on tonight.

Stretch
06-14-2005, 11:50 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote sack316:</font><hr> thanks Dr. Dave. Me and a friend actually talked about that a few weeks back. I've become so reliant on using the inside english based purely on the comfort level, that sometimes I'll even use it when it's cutting against the angle that I need to use for position on the next shot, requiring me to be too precise on my speed for shape. Whereas if I could use outside or centerball hit on the original shot I could be gaining position a lot easier in certain situations. Guess I know what I'll be working on tonight. <hr /></blockquote>

If i have to think about applying ANY english on a long thin cut it better be a foot from the pocket! Or a safeties lookin real good. For the long thin ones i try and hit perfect on the verticle axis and aim at a spot on the cloth right where the ghost ball would "sit"ie touching cloth, for a dead frozen combo. You need a target, u can't aim at air. In these situations where i want to just make it and take the medicine i use a short bridge, half a tip high for natural roll on contact, and use a shorter than normal stroke with abreviated follow. I shorten the follow because the tendency with a short stroke is to follow too far. This kills a lot of shots and drifts them off line. A short follow through works better for me on these fine shots. St.