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Misel
06-15-2005, 11:26 AM
Hello,
I would an opinion in regards to the balance of a cue.Would it be a difference in a cue balance beetwen a steel joint and 3x8/10 wood to wood joint from the same cuemaker,same design?

Thanks for help,
Misel

Ace
06-15-2005, 11:34 AM
I am the owner of ACE HIGH BILLIARDS in Longview, Texas. Concerning the difference in Balance, there would be a difference in the balance of a cue, but the difference is so little you would never feel it. Steel joints vs. wood to wood joints play big difference in other ways though, like how well a stroke is applyied to the cue ball (DRAW).

ceebee
06-15-2005, 12:41 PM
Ace is right on the money. The balance of the cue is based on the entire length. The stainless Joint does weigh a bit more, but when the weight of the entire cue is taken into consideration, that itty-bitty tiny amount of weight won't affect anything....

I'm inclined to believe the type of joint doesn't affect anything. The shaft, ferrule & the tip do.

Ace, do you happen to remember a guy named Tommy that owned the Rio Palm Isle... Tommy really liked to play Pool

Ace
06-15-2005, 12:48 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote ceebee:</font><hr> ACE, do you happen to remember a guy named Tommy that owned the Rio Palm Isle... Tommy really liked to play Pool <hr /></blockquote> I have been to the RIO PALM ISLE many times, but I did not go there to shoot pool and I never knew any of the owners either. It used to be a great place though to go hide hunting.

whiteoak
06-16-2005, 06:52 AM
Walter,Showing my ignorance here.How do the two joints differ in terms of action on the cueball?I am assuming the wood to wood imparts more action with less stroke.Do you think the widspread use of faster cloth is resulting in a "comeback" of the stainless steel joints?Thanks,M.S.

Cueless Joey
06-16-2005, 07:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm inclined to believe the type of joint doesn't affect anything. The shaft, ferrule &amp; the tip do.
<hr /></blockquote>
A piloted stainless steel joint definitely has a different balance and hit/feel. They are so much heavier in the middle. Some would argue the extra weight in the middle staggers the cueball so it deflects more.

Misel
06-16-2005, 02:14 PM
Thanks Joey,You helped a lot,
Also thanks to all who answered.

Misel

Popcorn
06-16-2005, 02:59 PM
I just went out to the shop to try a test. I put a 3/8x 10 screw 2 3/4 inches long on the scale and weighed it. I then put a S.S. joint, brass insert and 5/16 x 14 screw 2 3/4 inches long and weighed them. The 3/8 screw weighed 26 grams and the steel joint and parts weighed 63 grams more then one ounce heavier. I then took a house cue and taped the screw to it in the joint area and checked the balance then did the same with the steel joint parts. Even though the steel joint components weigh more then an ounce more it only moved the balance point an almost insignificant 3/8 of an inch. Here is the problem though, the cue is now over an ounce heavier. if you reduce the weight of the butt so you would now have two cues of the same weight, the balance point would move more and since most of the mass of the cue is in the butt it may now be significant. The cue has to be built from the start with a pre determined balance point based on what joint is going into the cue, not just at the last minute decide what joint is to go on the cue and what the final weight it is to be. This being the case the only difference will be how the two joint differ in play. To answer your question the balance point will be the same because the cue maker will build the cue taking it into account what joint he is going to use. If he doesn't it won't.

Stretch
06-16-2005, 03:50 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Cueless Joey:</font><hr> &lt;/font&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;font class="small"&gt;Quote:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;hr /&gt;
I'm inclined to believe the type of joint doesn't affect anything. The shaft, ferrule &amp; the tip do.
<hr /></blockquote>
A piloted stainless steel joint definitely has a different balance and hit/feel. They are so much heavier in the middle. Some would argue the extra weight in the middle staggers the cueball so it deflects more. <hr /></blockquote>

Little things DO make a difference....but only if your looking for them.

Ya i never concidered joints to be a broblem for ballence......ahem! It's all about vibration. My uneducated thinkun thinks that metal and wood don't mix. Any energy sent up the shaft stops at the joint Then the joint hits the butt wood and you feel the hit. The softer material joints absorb some of the energy waves thus Muffeling sound and makeing for a quieter hit, softer feel. And then there's the one piece, sigh the ultimate feel instument. With no joint to stain it's action and feel, but sadly totaly impracticle for travel and warp pron. St.

Leviathan
06-16-2005, 04:21 PM
Good stuff.

caedos
06-16-2005, 08:25 PM
Predator uses a type of steel joint, and they brag on lack of cue-ball deflection. The mass issue with squirt is mostly at the first foot (usually less) of the shaft, which is why Predator cored the shaft and filled it with low-density material. As to cue ball performance- I think that if a player gets the correct feel with a good stroke, either type of joint will do the same thing. Different people like differing amounts of vibrational feedback. It's that po-tay-toe, po-tah-toe thing.

My .02


c

whiteoak
06-17-2005, 05:45 PM
Regarding the action on the cueball one type of joint that is somewhat of a "hybrid" between the flat faced wood to wood and the piloted steel joint is the joint on the cues i play with from Tim Scruggs.It is a flat faced steel joint with radial pin with wood threads on the shaft.I have tried lots of different cues and this particular setup plays great.( I am not a cue dealer and none of my cues are for sale but yes this is a shameless plug for Mr.Scruggs work).ThanksM.Sellers

HALHOULE
06-18-2005, 03:45 AM
A cue ball does not know why it gets hit. It could care less. If you hit the cue ball in the center there is no deflection. If you hit off center there is deflection. To avoid cue ball deflection, first address the cue ball in the center, and then move the tip to the desired cue tip point, and fire away. The cue ball will deflect, but it will deflect the same amount that you moved the cue tip, so it is a wash, it cancels out, and the cue ball goes right to your original target that you had lined up before you shot the shot.

Hal

nhp
06-18-2005, 03:57 AM
Has anyone ever tried a cue that is weighted towards the butt? I shot with one and it sure felt great in my hands and it didn't hit too bad either. I've never held a cue that I really felt a huge difference in the balance that gave me a good feeling.

Troy
06-18-2005, 06:35 AM
Sounds just like a description of back-hand english.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HALHOULE:</font><hr> A cue ball does not know why it gets hit. It could care less. If you hit the cue ball in the center there is no deflection. If you hit off center there is deflection. To avoid cue ball deflection, first address the cue ball in the center, and then move the tip to the desired cue tip point, and fire away. The cue ball will deflect, but it will deflect the same amount that you moved the cue tip, so it is a wash, it cancels out, and the cue ball goes right to your original target that you had lined up before you shot the shot.

Hal <hr /></blockquote>

Fred Agnir
06-21-2005, 09:02 AM
Yup. I believe it was Mr. Houle who either coined the phrase or at the very least has put its popularity on the map of our pool-speak.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Troy:</font><hr> Sounds just like a description of back-hand english.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote HALHOULE:</font><hr> A cue ball does not know why it gets hit. It could care less. If you hit the cue ball in the center there is no deflection. If you hit off center there is deflection. To avoid cue ball deflection, first address the cue ball in the center, and then move the tip to the desired cue tip point, and fire away. The cue ball will deflect, but it will deflect the same amount that you moved the cue tip, so it is a wash, it cancels out, and the cue ball goes right to your original target that you had lined up before you shot the shot.

Hal <hr /></blockquote> <hr /></blockquote>