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Qtec
06-17-2005, 03:57 AM
Make your own mind up.



US scientists pile on pressure over climate change

David Adam, science correspondent
Wednesday June 8, 2005
The Guardian

US scientists have increased the pressure on George Bush and other world leaders to tackle climate change by signing a joint statement calling on G8 nations to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
The statement, from the science academies of the G8 countries, says the scientific evidence on climate change is now clear enough to compel their leaders to take action.

It says: "There is now strong evidence that significant global warming is occurring. It is likely that most of the warming in recent decades can be attributed to human activities...

"The scientific understanding of climate change is now sufficiently clear to justify nations taking prompt action. It is vital that all nations identify cost-effective steps that they can take now, to contribute to substantial and long-term reduction in net global greenhouse gas emissions."
The statement has been issued ahead of the G8 summit in Gleneagles in July. It follows months of negotiations between the UK's Royal Society, which published it yesterday, and the other academies.

One source close to the negotiations called the support of the US National Academy of Sciences "unprecedented".



Revealed: how oil giant influenced Bush

White House sought advice from Exxon on Kyoto stance

John Vidal, environment editor
Wednesday June 8, 2005
The Guardian

President's George Bush's decision not to sign the United States up to the Kyoto global warming treaty was partly a result of pressure from ExxonMobil, the world's most powerful oil company, and other industries, according to US State Department papers seen by the Guardian.
The documents, which emerged as Tony Blair visited the White House for discussions on climate change before next month's G8 meeting, reinforce widely-held suspicions of how close the company is to the administration and its role in helping to formulate US policy.

In briefing papers given before meetings to the US under-secretary of state, Paula Dobriansky, between 2001 and 2004, the administration is found thanking Exxon executives for the company's "active involvement" in helping to determine climate change policy, and also seeking its advice on what climate change policies the company might find acceptable.
Other papers suggest that Ms Dobriansky should sound out Exxon executives and other anti-Kyoto business groups on potential alternatives to Kyoto.

Until now Exxon has publicly maintained that it had no involvement in the US government's rejection of Kyoto. But the documents, obtained by Greenpeace under US freedom of information legislation, suggest this is not the case.



Ex-oil lobbyist watered down US climate research

Julian Borger in Washington
Thursday June 9, 2005
The Guardian

A former oil industry lobbyist edited the Bush administration's official policy papers on climate change to play down the link between greenhouse gas emissions and global warming, it was reported yesterday.
Documents released by a watchdog group, the Government Accountability Project, show that as chief of staff for the White House council on environmental quality, Philip Cooney watered down government scientific papers on climate change and played up uncertainties in the scientific literature. Mr Cooney is a law graduate and has no scientific training.

The Bush aide had performed a similar role in his previous job for the American Petroleum Institute, a lobby group representing oil giants and focused on countering the virtual consensus among scientists that man-made emissions are rapidly heating the planet.
"Cooney's still doing his old job for the American Petroleum Institute," said Kert Davies, the US research director for Greenpeace. "It's the American Petroleum Institute working within the White House."

The newly released documents, printed in the New York Times, show handwritten notes by Mr Cooney deleting paragraphs and editing others drafted by government scientists



Bush's climate row aide joins oil giant

Jamie Wilson in Washington
Thursday June 16, 2005
The Guardian

A senior White House official accused of doctoring government reports on climate change to play down the link between greenhouse gas emissions and global warming has taken a job with ExxonMobil, the world's largest oil company.
Philip Cooney, who resigned as chief of staff of the White House council on environment quality at the weekend, will begin work at the oil giant in the autumn.

Politicians and environmental groups in Washington condemned the move yesterday. "At a minimum it creates a terrible appearance," said Henry Waxman, a Democratic Congressman who sits on the committee for government reform. "This is one of the fastest revolving doors I have seen."
Kert Davies, the US research director for Greenpeace, said: "The cynical way to look at this is that ExxonMobil has removed its sleeper cell from the White House and extracted him back to the mother ship."
It emerged last week that Mr Cooney, who has a law degree and no scientific training, watered down scientific papers on climate change and played up uncertainties in the scientific literature.




PM urged to bypass Bush on climate change

Staff and agencies
Friday June 17, 2005

Guardian Unlimited

Tony Blair was today urged to break with George Bush over climate change as it emerged from leaked G8 papers that the US is unwilling to put its name to anything that says the world is getting hotter.
Details of a draft communique drawn up for the July 6-8 summit at Gleneagles suggest the world's leading industrial democracies have failed to agree on the most basic issues.

With Africa, the issue of climate change shares top billing on the prime minister's agenda for the Perthshire summit, but the US is proving intransigent over global warming. Alone among the G8, Washington has refused to sign the Kyoto agreement on cutting carbon emissions.

The former environment minister Michael Meacher said it was "extraordinary" that doubt was being cast on the idea that the world was getting hotter.

"I think the problem here is that Europe, and perhaps the United Kingdom, have been far too willing to go along with the kind of draft the Americans want, which is totally inexplicit and which is going to allow them to continue their economic activities," he said.

A first draft of the communique - leaked last month - disappointed environmentalists because it contained no targets or deadlines to build on the Kyoto cuts in emissions or to develop alternative power sources.

The latest document - dated June 14 and seen by Channel 4 News - suggests negotiations since then have resulted in some of the document's most basic assumptions being called into question.























I think this is just too important an issue to let the oil companies decide.
Q

moblsv
06-18-2005, 07:06 AM
The fact that Human CO2 emissions are causing global warming is NOT a controversy among the scientists who study this. Anything you hear to the contrary is untrue. The earth is warming and higher CO2 concentrations ARE causing it.

ceebee
06-19-2005, 07:10 AM
Anyone can observe their weather patterns & see a change. Anyone can look around them & smell a change. 5 billion people (when the Chinese get up to speed), driving their cars, will produce enough stuff out to cause some real concern. It will be too late then.

Look at the fools in South America that ruin 10,000 acres a day (just a guestimate). That is a criminal act against mankind. I'm told those trees are destroyed, so that folks can have some barbecue briquets.

The politicians govern everything for their benefit. They allow big business to get bigger, knowing big business will continue to support their election chests. It is a vicious circle, the apathetic American plays right into these bastard's hands.

Look at the auto industry, they are begging people to buy cars. They must have forgotten they laid off workers to let Mexicans build cars. Did they forgot the Steel Mills moved to Japan. The garment industry moved to China. Maytag went to Mexico too. SBC laid off workers & are employing people in India. GM & FORD cannot sell their cars to those people, because those people are only making a $1 an hour.

Your government is sodomizing each & everyone one of our families. They have good health insurance & pension plans, because you folks pay for it. Did they make sure you, the American people, had good medical benefits first? Ha!Ha!Ha! A good leader always takes care of his men. This statement shows our leaders to be bad ones. The government employs more people every year, while the folks in your career path are laid off. The government should strive to be streamlined & economical. Ha!Ha!Ha!, "what was I thinking"? Our leaders are bilking & milking us for our last breath.

Global warming is a serious problem for our future families, it is one of many serious problems facing mankind in general. The government doesn't give a rat's ass about the future or you, because life to them is in the "here & now". Your senators & representatives are nothing more than heralded theives & liars, squandering your tax money faster than you can make it. They are not accountable for their actions and or deeds, because you (the people) have no voice.

O'Reilly said it best, one evening on his show, "the only group in America that doesn't have a lobby is the American Citizen".

mred477
06-19-2005, 10:14 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone can observe their weather patterns &amp; see a change. <hr /></blockquote>

I'm not an expert on the subject, but global warming is not a phenomenon that anyone would notice over a 100 year lifetime. Variations in temperature and weather each year are more than the increases attributed to global warming.

In addition, when one looks at historical temperatures over the last 1000 years, a much different pattern is visible.

I'm not saying global warming isn't a real phenomenon, but there is still plenty of debate among scientists. The articles that Qtec quoted have one thing in common: the scientists claiming disaster obtain government funds by claiming there is a problem. There are plenty of scientists who do not agree with their conclusion.

In addition, claiming environmental disaster has another effect. It causes experts to claim that more advanced countries must pay third world countries for their environmental "crimes". This kind of income redistribution is something that socialists salivate at and would surely abuse, all in the name of environmental fairness.

Will

highsea
06-19-2005, 11:20 AM
Been there...done that.

Qtec's Global Dimming thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=npr&amp;Number=175069&amp;Forum=np r&amp;Words=Global%20warming&amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Sea rchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=174606&amp;Search =true#Post175069)

Ross's Global Warming thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=npr&amp;Number=160442&amp;Forum=np r&amp;Words=Global%20warming&amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Sea rchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=160028&amp;Search =true#Post160442)

Another Qtec Global Warming thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=npr&amp;Number=141120&amp;Forum=np r&amp;Words=Global%20warming&amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Sea rchpage=1&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=140910&amp;Search =true#Post141120)

Yet another Global Warming thread by Qtec (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=npr&amp;Number=127743&amp;Forum=np r&amp;Words=Global%20warming&amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Sea rchpage=1&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=126491&amp;Search =true#Post127743)

Tom Brooklyn's Global Warming thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=npr&amp;Number=88185&amp;Forum=npr &amp;Words=Global%20warming&amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Sear chpage=2&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=allposts&amp;Main=57092&amp;Search=t rue#Post88185)

Search results for global warming on this forum (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/dosearch.php?Cat=&amp;Forum=npr&amp;Words=Global%20warming &amp;Match=Entire%20Phrase&amp;Searchpage=0&amp;Limit=25&amp;Old=a llposts)

Chopstick
06-20-2005, 06:18 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mred477:</font><hr> The articles that Qtec quoted have one thing in common: the scientists claiming disaster obtain government funds by claiming there is a problem. There are plenty of scientists who do not agree with their conclusion.

<font color="blue">Ding! </font color>

In addition, claiming environmental disaster has another effect. It causes experts to claim that more advanced countries must pay third world countries for their environmental "crimes". This kind of income redistribution is something that socialists salivate at and would surely abuse, all in the name of environmental fairness.

<font color="blue">You know it brother.</font color>

Will
<hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">During the Revolutionary war George Washington hauled cannon across the Hudson river. You sure couldn't do that today. So what. The overall trend is for global cooling moving toward an ice age. If it weren't for global warming our friend Q would be broadcasting from a top a mile high glacier. Why don't you ask a Canadian or a Russian what they think about global warming?

As far as global warming causing radical fluctuations in the climate, I must admit that last winter was hard down here. It was cold both days. </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


ChopStick~~~~&gt; Cannot believe people live up north on purpose.

Qtec
06-20-2005, 06:34 AM
You are missing the point H. My post isnt really about whether climate change is a fact- its more about corruption and how people will do anything for money, including killing us alll!

Q

Here are the headlines,

[ QUOTE ]
US scientists pile on pressure over climate change


Revealed: how oil giant influenced Bush

White House sought advice from Exxon on Kyoto stance

Ex-oil lobbyist watered down US climate research

Bush's climate row aide joins oil giant

PM urged to bypass Bush on climate change




"The latest document - dated June 14 and seen by Channel 4 News - suggests negotiations since then have resulted in some of the document's most basic assumptions being called into question."
<hr /></blockquote>

Sid_Vicious
06-20-2005, 07:14 AM
"The politicians govern everything for their benefit. They allow big business to get bigger, knowing big business will continue to support their election chests. It is a vicious circle, the apathetic American plays right into these bastard's hands."

You'd think that even the hardest headed Bush supporters of them all would see this handwritting on the wall. It's a sad representation of American intelligence...sid

Qtec
06-20-2005, 07:27 AM
[ QUOTE ]
"The politicians govern everything for their benefit. They allow big business to get bigger, knowing big business will continue to support their election chests. It is a vicious circle, the apathetic American plays right into these bastard's hands." <hr /></blockquote>

To be honest, thats been the way and will continue to be the way. Its just a matter to what degree.

Recently, the Admin that is so anti-smoking and that has banned smoking in most parts of country has just dropped its demand against the Tobacco Comps, [ almost on the last day of a trail thats lasted 5 years] from $130 billion to $10 billion!.......................................... ........................and the guy who quit the WH because he was altering scientifc docs about climate change ,has just now joined Exxon-Mobil?

Amazing

Q /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif