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View Full Version : Hustlers an endangered species



Drop1
06-17-2005, 06:17 PM
Several years ago,I had a chance to talk to the Director of the movie "Color of Money". I told him the movie was good entertainment,but a hustler would not play a tournement,because of the exposure. He said,"The movie never was intended to mirror reality. What he wanted was a good story. I think hustler is an unfortunate word for a breed of players,who play for high stakes against talented competetion. Every player that walks towards the table knows there is a little hustle in the blood. Rags Fitzpatrick played for ten to forty thousand dollars in the course of a night. so I'm not talking about bottom feeders,but a class of players we might not see again.

Drop1
06-17-2005, 06:34 PM
If you are wondering,it was Martin Scorsese,and he was in the store where I worked on Wilshire Blvd. He had problems with his feet,and that was the reason we were talking.

Popcorn
06-17-2005, 06:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Rags Fitzpatrick played for ten to forty thousand dollars in the course of a night. so I'm not talking about bottom feeders,but a class of players we might not see again. <hr /></blockquote>

Actually, those players will always be around. But the road player who traveled matching up with local champs, who were usually well out classed, is probably a thing of the past. If you go into a pool room today you may if you are lucky get a game for $10.00 or $20.00 a game, maybe a $100.00 set, but that's about it. This is what you were playing for a zillion years ago when a motel room was $20. a night and gas $.75 a gallon. The economics just aren't there. People also don't have any money in their pocket, they carry an ATM card if they need a few bucks and a few dollars in cash. People used to cash their pay checks on a Friday and carry it around in their pocket, not any more. Times have just changed and the road player is now pretty much gone.

EZMark
06-17-2005, 06:41 PM
I knew Rags he was a neighbor, in D.C. he was one of the best. Go to the Derby City classic You will see all the action you want, action is not dead

PQQLK9
06-17-2005, 07:06 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Rags Fitzpatrick played for ten to forty thousand dollars in the course of a night. so I'm not talking about bottom feeders,but a class of players we might not see again. <hr /></blockquote>
http://photos1.flickr.com/2453260_d1f235c747.jpg
Here's a 1956 picture of Rags and a link to an interview with Bill Staton on One Pocket.org where speculation on the cause of his (Rags) death is mentioned. web page (http://www.onepocket.org/StatonInterview.htm)

sneakypapi
06-18-2005, 12:10 AM
One thing about hustlers, not all of them are undercover scamming unwitting players. There are many known hustlers out there who will take on anyone for a good money game. It is a known fact many hustlers will take on pros with backers to support both and then split the pot with the backer. Pool is a very interesting game because sometimes when you are on you are on, but when your game is off then it is really off, this goes for the pros too. Money games go on all the time I noticed them even at Valley Forge with money flying in plain view.

theinel
06-18-2005, 01:02 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr>I think hustler is an unfortunate word for a breed of players,who play for high stakes against talented competetion.<hr /></blockquote>
The breed of players you mention are not hustlers they are gamblers.

Hustling usually invloves a highly skilled player (relatively) taking advantage of a lesser opponent without that opponents knowledge.

theinel
06-18-2005, 01:13 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr>The economics just aren't there....Times have just changed and the road player is now pretty much gone. <hr /></blockquote>
Popcorn, you are right about "The economics just aren't there" but they never really were because it's not possible to predict when you will find the type of opponents you are looking for or whether you will win or not.

As for as "the road player is now pretty much gone" goes my experience only goes back ten or twelve years but I can tell you that they are still out there. I see them come through my area every few months. That may just be because of a few locals around here that like to play high but there are definitely still some crazy souls out there that like to travel around the country looking for action.

Popcorn
06-18-2005, 02:37 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote theinel:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr>The economics just aren't there....Times have just changed and the road player is now pretty much gone. <hr /></blockquote>
Popcorn, you are right about "The economics just aren't there" but they never really were because it's not possible to predict when you will find the type of opponents you are looking for or whether you will win or not.

As for as "the road player is now pretty much gone" goes my experience only goes back ten or twelve years but I can tell you that they are still out there. I see them come through my area every few months. That may just be because of a few locals around here that like to play high but there are definitely still some crazy souls out there that like to travel around the country looking for action. <hr /></blockquote>

The players you are talking about are not road players but players just running around playing for the sport of it and probably don't make much of a profit if any. There was a time though when the road player made good money. You could play in bars and pool rooms for little more then a few dollars a game and grind out from nothing some nights to $50.00 or as much as a few hundred a night. This was in a time when a man was supporting a family on $6.00 an hour. Gas was cheap,so was loging. In that economy being a road player was not only fun but a very good paying job. I remember in 1971 walking in and buying a brand new car with a few weeks winnings. The reason it sticks out in my mind was I hadn't exchanged any money it was just lying around the house. I paid cash for the car with mostly five and ten dollar bills. In the pool room back then, everybody went on the road. A guy would take off for a few weeks and come back with a bankroll and I'm not talking about champion players, if you could play at all you could make money. No body I knew had jobs, we all played pool. Bar tables were a fairly new thing and you didn't even have to hustle, just walk in and put up your quarter. It was beautiful you could play all day and night if you wanted and just keep grinding out the money. Every bar had a challenge table for a few dollars a game, you just walked in and played. These players were mostly small time but could still make a nice living regardless, more then the average working man back then. The really good players running around had an even bigger advantage, they could give up a lot of weight to the local champs and may bust the whole place and win serious money. The thing is, today you would have a hard time making even what you made 30 years ago. You couldn't even pay expenses today much less make a living at it.

HALHOULE
06-18-2005, 03:16 AM
I have to disagree with you about a pros game being on and off as much as an ameteur's game. That does not happen. I started playing pool in 1932, and it is still not happening between pros and amateurs, and in my opnion, never will.

hal

sneakypapi
06-18-2005, 10:26 AM
Actually, I was not comparing a pros game to an ameteur's game in terms of being off as much. What I meant that even the pros will have a bad day, I have seen it first hand where things where not going right from the start and their mental game was not up to par to come back.

theinel
06-18-2005, 04:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Popcorn:</font><hr>
The players you are talking about are not road players but players just running around playing for the sport of it and probably don't make much of a profit if any. There was a time though when the road player made good money. You could play in bars and pool rooms for little more then a few dollars a game and grind out from nothing some nights to $50.00 or as much as a few hundred a night. This was in a time when a man was supporting a family on $6.00 an hour. Gas was cheap,so was loging. In that economy being a road player was not only fun but a very good paying job. I remember in 1971 walking in and buying a brand new car with a few weeks winnings. The reason it sticks out in my mind was I hadn't exchanged any money it was just lying around the house. I paid cash for the car with mostly five and ten dollar bills. In the pool room back then, everybody went on the road. A guy would take off for a few weeks and come back with a bankroll and I'm not talking about champion players, if you could play at all you could make money. No body I knew had jobs, we all played pool. Bar tables were a fairly new thing and you didn't even have to hustle, just walk in and put up your quarter. It was beautiful you could play all day and night if you wanted and just keep grinding out the money. Every bar had a challenge table for a few dollars a game, you just walked in and played. These players were mostly small time but could still make a nice living regardless, more then the average working man back then. The really good players running around had an even bigger advantage, they could give up a lot of weight to the local champs and may bust the whole place and win serious money. The thing is, today you would have a hard time making even what you made 30 years ago. You couldn't even pay expenses today much less make a living at it.<hr /></blockquote>
Hi Popcorn. That sure does sound beautiful. I hear people talking about those days but unfortunately I never got to experience them.

These guys were definitely what I would call road players though. There were four of them one of whom was known to some of our locals so while a lot of what they said may have been for show I know at least the broad strokes were true. They had been on the road for four months staying in motels. I saw them play for anywhere between $500 and $5000 a set. One night they were even flipping quarters for a grand. There were regional players coming from 50 to 100 miles around to try to get some of their money. They stayed for over a week and I didn't see their last few days here but they were up about 8k out of my hall the last time I saw them.

1a2b3c
06-21-2005, 01:58 AM
We are? What do you define as a hustler? If its playing a 40,000 dollar set i guess we are. If its taking a drunks money when hes willing to bet it then i gotta wonder where you play pool. We are everywhere in almost every town. The thing is you gotta be better then the other local "hustler" trying to take your money. Or maybe being a hustler has something to do with how you set up the match games...the tricks up your sleeve. Maybe you have your drunk buddy who cant shoot for [censored] sober lose a game for $5 or $10 with your set next...hey, you bet him $10, why not me? Or maybe you try to talk him into a dollar a ball left on the table and pay out a couple bucks the first game? Or my favorite, betting on a trick shot some drunk dumbass aint seen??? If a hustler is just a guy taking your money on a pool table we will never be a dying bread. If we can toy with you with precision without you knowing...well we still aint a dying breed. We play the drunks who think theyre good and we play the weak who think they are better, but in reality it takes a lifetime to know what needs to be known. Miscueing is easy, miscueing to get your leave takes skill. Being sober and acting drunk takes some skill. Being a hustler is easy, but being good at what you do for a living takes time. Im playing in winfield kansas this weekend if you wanna see how to hustle people. We arent a dying breed.

Ok so maybe its the alcohol talking, i can drink when the pool halls close, but i think i have a lesson or two for those not wanting hustled. If youve been drinking, dont bet the guy. If i bet you i can make a shot that you think is impossible, dont bet money on it. Things are not what they seem. I may look like a redneck who rolled of the hay wagon but i can take your money, otherwise i wouldnt be betting my roll on it.

Drop1
06-21-2005, 08:57 AM
Read the part where I say Hustler is an unfortunate word,and where I talk about bottom fishers; players that feed on weaker players,drunk, sober,or big ego. What I like in the game is the belief a player has in their own abilities. Nobody goes into a game believing they are going to win. There is something intrinsicly refined in the game,and that will never die. The day I think I need to Hustle,is the day I will cook a steak with my cues.

PQQLK9
06-21-2005, 09:03 AM
tap tap tap

Popcorn
06-21-2005, 10:24 AM
I think "dying breed" refers to the player who make a nice comfortable living plying their trade. It can't be done any more in my opinion. Stealing from a drunk in the bar down the street does not a professional hustler make.

1a2b3c
06-21-2005, 02:35 PM
ahh, yes, making a real living playing pool is a thing of the past unless your a pro and winning tournaments. I was drinking last night, if you couldnt tell. But hustling some poor bastard at the bar is always gonna happen, you just wont be rich doing it. And whoever said that you dont come to the table thinking your gonna win is wrong. I always go to the table thinking im invincible even though i know everyone can be beat.

Drop1
06-21-2005, 07:11 PM
About anyone coming to the table,that was me putting words in the wrong order.You are right we all go to the table ready to kick a$$.