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Nostroke
06-21-2005, 09:09 AM
At a recent tournament i attended, a player was jacked up over a ball shooting lets say the five ball. On the player's stroke he hit the ball he was jacked up over. I think it should be a foul as one could deliberately back stroke into the ball being shot over and move it out of the way so that a solid hit can be made on the cue ball on the downstroke (one reason anyway).

It was called a foul but the rules that were cited were titled something like 'Fouling on Masse or Jump Shots' of which the case in point was neither.

So anyway Foul or Fair? (playing cue ball fouls only of course) If you believe it to be a foul, please cite the rule.

Nostroke
06-22-2005, 08:13 PM
What gives? Not one answer? Is this a silly question and i dont know it? Am I completely brain dead finally?

ras314
06-22-2005, 08:27 PM
Nostroke, I would call it a foul if the cue moved the ball on a practice stroke and then the shooter went ahead and took the shot. The player could have stopped, given the opponent the option of leaving the moved ball where it stopped or putting it back where it was without a foul.

Just the way cue ball fouls only ought to be played in my usless opinion.

Troy
06-23-2005, 06:46 AM
Per this BCA rule, it is NOT a foul. See http://www.bca-pool.com/play/tournaments/rules/rls_gen.shtml#1.16.1 for the text ---
1.16.1 CUE BALL FOULS ONLY
When a referee is presiding over a match, it is a foul for a player to touch any ball (cue ball or object ball) with the cue, clothing, body, mechanical bridge or chalk, before, during or after a shot. However, when a referee is not presiding over a game, it is not a foul to accidentally touch stationary balls located between the cue ball and the shooter while in the act of shooting. If such an accident occurs, the player should allow the Tournament Director to restore the object balls to their correct positions. If the player does not allow such a restoration, and a ball set in motion as a normal part of the shot touches such an unrestored ball, or passes partly into a region originally occupied by a disturbed ball, the shot is a foul. In short, if the accident has any effect on the outcome of the shot, it is a foul. In any case, the Tournament Director must be called upon to restore the positions of the disturbed balls as soon as possible, but not during the shot. It is a foul to play another shot before the Tournament Director has restored any accidentally moved balls. At the non-shooting player’s option, the disturbed balls will be left in their new positions. In this case, the balls are considered restored, and subsequent contact on them is not a foul. It is still a foul to make any contact with the cue ball whatsoever while it is in play, except for the normal tip-to-ball contact during a shot.

I might let one accidental touch slide, but I would certainly call unsportmanlike contact if done multiple times.

Troy
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> At a recent tournament i attended, a player was jacked up over a ball shooting lets say the five ball. On the player's stroke he hit the ball he was jacked up over. I think it should be a foul as one could deliberately back stroke into the ball being shot over and move it out of the way so that a solid hit can be made on the cue ball on the downstroke (one reason anyway).

It was called a foul but the rules that were cited were titled something like 'Fouling on Masse or Jump Shots' of which the case in point was neither.

So anyway Foul or Fair? (playing cue ball fouls only of course) If you believe it to be a foul, please cite the rule. <hr /></blockquote>

Jude_Rosenstock
06-23-2005, 09:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Nostroke:</font><hr> At a recent tournament i attended, a player was jacked up over a ball shooting lets say the five ball. On the player's stroke he hit the ball he was jacked up over. I think it should be a foul as one could deliberately back stroke into the ball being shot over and move it out of the way so that a solid hit can be made on the cue ball on the downstroke (one reason anyway).

It was called a foul but the rules that were cited were titled something like 'Fouling on Masse or Jump Shots' of which the case in point was neither.

So anyway Foul or Fair? (playing cue ball fouls only of course) If you believe it to be a foul, please cite the rule. <hr /></blockquote>


No, it's not a foul if you're playing cue-ball fouls only but keep in mind that the rules still favor neat play and it's always best to try and not touch anything.

Case in point: I was playing in a Joss event earlier this season, watching another match when I saw something rather similar happen only in this instance, the moved object-ball went to the other side of the table and the cue-ball came to rest in the vicinity of where the object-ball originally was. Of course, the sitting player wanted a foul called but the spectators (including myself) were able to say that the moved object-ball did not affect the layout of the table. However, the sitting player did exercise his ability to penalize his sloppy opponent by "restoring" the original position of the object ball. He decided the moved object ball would have snookered his opponent when in reality, he would have had a clear shot had he not touch anything.

Afterward, the offending player bitched about it quite a bit and I said to him, "You're right. The object-ball wasn't where your opponent restored it BUT you leave yourself vulnerable to stuff like that the moment you move a ball."

theinel
06-24-2005, 02:54 AM
Sorry Nostroke but by the current rules it's not a foul if the moved ball didn't interfere with any other balls or the areas that other balls may have moved through.

I understand the why they have the "Cue ball foul only" rules if no referee is present but a tournament is a higher standard of play and a player shouldn't be allowed to touch anything other than the cueball with the tip of the cue.

Nostroke
06-24-2005, 10:30 PM
I didn't think it was a foul under the present rules- I just said i thought it SHOULD be a foul-meaning the rules should be rewritten to addresss this. Otherwise a player can move the interferring ball without fear of penalty,

The tournament official was wrong as I suspected and all the others who chimed in in support were also wrong. It was 30-1 in favor of the foul with players from different tours saying it was a foul everywhere they played. So much for the wisdom of the majority.