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View Full Version : Guidance oh great ones...please !



tjlmbklr
06-21-2005, 03:47 PM
It is our love for this game, which brings all of us to this forum. Me being a mere newbie, I can't help but think I might just be out of my league. I have been waiting along time to finally have a table of my own to PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE, oh and of course to mingle which friends and family. I believe I have a good base for the game, but am very inconsistent. I take it way more serious then anyone else I know. and know more about the game then anyone I know for sure. But I lose too much ! I am considering taking lessons to have a trained professional tell me what it is I am doing wrong. When I say inconsistent I mean in every way, stance, stroke, shot making, and just being able to find that place we refer to as the zone. I am a visual learner and books just don't do it for me. So I would like some advice on a good course I should take, I am from the southeastern Wisconsin area, and will travel if the opportunity seems fit.

Cue U College is within driving distance and seems very reputable. I know there are many other great instructors, many of which I read of in this forum, but I am not sure if I want to commit to a long very costly trip.

Any help would be appreciated

Thank you

T.J.

Fred Agnir
06-21-2005, 03:53 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tjlmbklr:</font><hr> I am from the southeastern Wisconsin area, and will travel if the opportunity seems fit.
quote]

Jerry Briesath, Madison, WI (http://www.thepoolschool.com)

Jerry Briesath is one of the very best instructors in the world. Period.

That being said, you should also check out top players and watch them, their strokes, their approaches, their stance, their patterns, and their decisions. If you can't see them in person, get some Accustat Tapes.

Fred

SPetty
06-21-2005, 03:56 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tjlmbklr:</font><hr> ...but I am not sure if I want to commit to a long very costly trip. <hr /></blockquote>Huh? Aren't you the one who is completely redoing the attic to put the pool table, a job that's taken years?

So you've spent countless dollars and hours working on your room and buying a table and now you want to know if it's worth it to invest a little more time and money and commit to learning how to play?

I get so confused nowadays...

Drop1
06-21-2005, 08:28 PM
If you really have to ask this question,after by your own admission, you love every frigging thing about pool,and know more about it than anyone you know,and want to practice for hours and hours,I wonder why you don't ask what will take the place in in your life of the game. Go become the best player you can at any cost,or go out and buy a new stove,and sell the pool table. I think inside,you know what you are going to do,and are looking for support. Its your life,live it doing what you want,and never explain why to anyone.

tjlmbklr
06-21-2005, 08:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Huh? Aren't you the one who is completely redoing the attic to put the pool table, a job that's taken years?
<hr /></blockquote>

What are you insulting me, I am re-doing my attic to have a place of my own to play pool with or without friends. I play leagues and an ocassional tourny(local) but I am not happy with the inconsistansy of my game . So what if I am re-doing my attic , what am I the only one here that has a rec. room, mine just happens to be in the attic....! Pool tutors are there for a reason, why not use them. By the way it has been a year and a half since I bought the house and I have only been doing what money is allowing me right now.

tjlmbklr
06-21-2005, 08:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Its your life,live it doing what you want,and never explain why to anyone.

<hr /></blockquote>

AMEN

SPetty
06-21-2005, 09:42 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tjlmbklr:</font><hr> What are you insulting me, <hr /></blockquote>I wasn't intending to be insulting - I was trying to understand your question.

It sounded like you were asking whether you should put the time and dollars into learning how to play pool.

It seems to me that if you've put all the time and dollars into your room, the least you could do is put the time and dollars into learning how to play.

Again, obviously I'm missing something in your question - otherwise I wouldn't be so confused.

No insult intended. Really. I don't even see how you could have interpreted an insult. That's how out of touch I am with this post. It's me, really...

Billy_Bob
06-21-2005, 10:28 PM
Well an instructor is the best thing.

BTW - I have my own house and know what a money drain it can be. But there was never a larger money drain that when I installed a pool room! The table was cheap, but then came new cloth, new balls, house cues, videos, TV/VCR for pool room so I could watch the videos in there, air conditioning, and on and on!

Anyway if on a budget for now, may want to get a few videos of the pros playing and watch how they shoot. Then videotape yourself shooting and see what is different.

Also keep a record of shots you miss or have difficulty with. I tend to remember missed shots which cost me a match in a tournament.

Then practice, practice, practice those shots. These shots will be the most difficult and most frustrating, but that is what you should be practicing.

Get stickers to place on the table. Shoot the same exact shot over and over.

Do this for about a year and shots which were once difficult will be a piece of cake.

BTW - I have my pockets shimmed which makes them smaller and requires extreme accuracy on my part. This has forced me to learn to shoot *very* accurately. May want to place obsticles in front of one of your pockets - maybe shoes or whatever - then practice making the ball dead center into the pocket.

Do your practice every day for at least an hour.

1Time
06-21-2005, 10:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr>
That being said, you should also check out top players and watch them, their strokes, their approaches, their stance, their patterns, and their decisions. If you can't see them in person, get some Accustat Tapes.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

I've improved my game quite a bit over the years by watching and imitating the stroke and play of better players in person. This is very good advise.

tjlmbklr
06-22-2005, 05:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Again, obviously I'm missing something in your question - otherwise I wouldn't be so confused.
<hr /></blockquote>

I once considered taking lessons about 4 years ago but did not have the table time to keep up on what I learned. So my question is; are lessons worth it, now that I have the table to put what I learn to use, is getting a pros. opinion going to help me figure out the best way to re-jumpstart my love of pool. Some times I just want to start fresh and re-train myself. I guess if I am spending about 8-10,000 on finishing my attic a few hundred for lessons might be worth it. I also know that the value of my house will increase due to the extra rooms. And as far as watching pros.on tape, believe me I have my fair share of tapes. I credit what I Do know to watch pool on TV. I am the best arm chair pool player there is !

tjlmbklr
06-22-2005, 05:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I have my pockets shimmed <hr /></blockquote>

When I asked the sales rep. about shimming the pockets , he seemed to not know what I was talking about. Is this just adding extra facings ?

LARRY_BOY
06-22-2005, 05:52 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote tjlmbklr:</font><hr> I am from the southeastern Wisconsin area, and will travel if the opportunity seems fit.
quote]

Jerry Briesath, Madison, WI (http://www.thepoolschool.com)

Jerry Briesath is one of the very best instructors in the world. Period.



Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Hay Fred did you ever think what the diferance is between a instructor or a coach?

Fred Agnir
06-22-2005, 07:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr>Hay Fred did you ever think what the diferance is between a instructor or a coach? <hr /></blockquote>Yes.

Fred

DickLeonard
06-22-2005, 07:51 AM
Tjmlbklr your a newcomer to the board but SPetty stands high
on this board. She is not one to insult anyone,I think she was making a valid point, if you would spend the money to make your own poolroom why wouldn't you consider spending
money to take professional tutoring.

On the 25 of this month is the Chili Cookoff at PettyPoint the name of her two table poolroom somewhere in Texas. There is near 80 people coming to enjoy her hospitality. ####

LARRY_BOY
06-22-2005, 08:25 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr>Hay Fred did you ever think what the diferance is between a instructor or a coach? <hr /></blockquote>Yes.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Care to share your thoughts on the subject? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif

tjlmbklr
06-22-2005, 08:28 AM
[ QUOTE ]
What are you insulting me <hr /></blockquote>

OK I guess we got of on the wrong foot I did not mean to accuse you of insulting me, one thing I am known for to my friends is my sarcasm we'll just say thatís all it was and leave it at that

Thank you all for your replies

Fred Agnir
06-22-2005, 08:34 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr>Hay Fred did you ever think what the diferance is between a instructor or a coach? <hr /></blockquote>Yes.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Care to share your thoughts on the subject? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>I'm sorry. Maybe you should start a new thread?

Fred &lt;~~~ even more confused

SPetty
06-22-2005, 08:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> ...SPetty stands high on this board. <hr /></blockquote>Oh puhleeze! She's no different than anyone else - except she can't play as well! /ccboard/images/graemlins/blush.gif

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr>There is near 80 people coming ... <hr /></blockquote>God I hope not! /ccboard/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I'm counting more like 20... /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

LARRY_BOY
06-22-2005, 08:43 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fred Agnir:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote LARRY_BOY:</font><hr>Hay Fred did you ever think what the diferance is between a instructor or a coach? <hr /></blockquote>Yes.

Fred <hr /></blockquote>

Care to share your thoughts on the subject? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif <hr /></blockquote>I'm sorry. Maybe you should start a new thread?

Fred &lt;~~~ even more confused <hr /></blockquote>

Glad I could help ad to your state of confusion......

Chopstick
06-22-2005, 09:24 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote DickLeonard:</font><hr> ...SPetty stands high on this board. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Well, she must be standing on a stack of telephone books. </font color> /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Billy_Bob
06-22-2005, 09:39 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote tjlmbklr:</font><hr> When I asked the sales rep. about shimming the pockets , he seemed to not know what I was talking about. Is this just adding extra facings ? <hr /></blockquote>

Yes, I added extra facings. Some on these forums feel that it is not good to shim the pockets as the table will play differently. Others say it will hurt your confidence.(I say if you want more confidence, make the pockets larger!)

In my case the pockets are quadruple shimmed. The openings are; corner pockets 3-3/4 inches and side pockets 3-7/8 inches.

The problem with using facings is that you have a dead spot on the rail if a ball hits the facing. You could install new longer rail rubber which would extend over the added facings.

But the way I look at it, I should not be using those areas for banking or kick shots as they don't exist on a regular table. So when I am not on target and the ball hits the facing rather than the rail rubber, I hear a dull "thud" and the ball does not rebound. So it is actually better to *not* extend the rail rubber if you ask me. I get feedback if I am not hitting the right spot on the rail.

My quadruple shimmed table has worked out to be quite good for me and my friends. I now make balls on a regular table into the center of the pocket usually. My friends like to come over and warm-up on my table before playing elsewhere on a regular table. Then the pockets on the regular table seem like the grand canyon! Just can't miss as the pockets seem so large.

It was quite frustrating using my table the first 6 months or so. I had to re-learn how to shoot. My previous sloppy shots, which just barely made the pocket, would not work any more. I needed to start aiming properly - not just sending the ball that general direction and getting lucky.

Also "cheating the pocket" on a regular table is quite easy for me now. I'll have a straight in shot and see lots of options for hitting the ball slightly to one side of the pocket or the other.

Stretch
06-22-2005, 09:49 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> Well an instructor is the best thing.

BTW - I have my own house and know what a money drain it can be. But there was never a larger money drain that when I installed a pool room! The table was cheap, but then came new cloth, new balls, house cues, videos, TV/VCR for pool room so I could watch the videos in there, air conditioning, and on and on!

Anyway if on a budget for now, may want to get a few videos of the pros playing and watch how they shoot. Then videotape yourself shooting and see what is different.

Also keep a record of shots you miss or have difficulty with. I tend to remember missed shots which cost me a match in a tournament.

Then practice, practice, practice those shots. These shots will be the most difficult and most frustrating, but that is what you should be practicing.

Get stickers to place on the table. Shoot the same exact shot over and over.

Do this for about a year and shots which were once difficult will be a piece of cake.

BTW - I have my pockets shimmed which makes them smaller and requires extreme accuracy on my part. This has forced me to learn to shoot *very* accurately. May want to place obsticles in front of one of your pockets - maybe shoes or whatever - then practice making the ball dead center into the pocket.

Do your practice every day for at least an hour.
<hr /></blockquote>

Great advice BB. Especially about working on your trouble shots. To expand, i'd suggest a qick warm up then tackle the "trouble shots" first. Do them while your fresh and eager. Too often we practice the things we're good at because it's fun and satisfying, or interesting and entertaining. But that isn't practicing to improve. Depends on why your there i guess.

Another good practice routine is to pre-plan a number of different area's to work on, shots, fundamentles, kicking banking etc. by way of a journal. Keep it in your cue case for easy refference and spend 5 or 10 minuits on each, no more.

I'm also a firm believer in you'll always revert to what you do the most when your in a pressure situation. If ALL your practice time were spent in the training mode, you will tend to think mechanicaly or analyticly just when you shoudn't be. Shooting is all about trust and faith to the point it's an unconcious response (idealy lol). So your practice time should be 50% or More! in the playing mentality. Freewheeling trusting playing. Don't judge anything, don't fret about misses, accept everything and rock on. This is how u perfect your timeing and rythem, and that's what ultimately gets you through a tuff rack imo. St.

tjlmbklr
06-22-2005, 11:18 AM
Thank you, I'll keep all of these ideas in mind.

wolfdancer
06-22-2005, 05:55 PM
to begin with...you addressed your post to the great ones
so why are all these other people butting in?
I think new players have the wrong approach to learning the game, and I'm a classic example.
We want to sink balls, and we learn with some degree of proficiency how to do that, but because we haven't learned good mechanics first...we pocket balls while compensating for a poor setup and strokes. I played golf with a guy once that aimed his drives at the left rough, to overcome a big slice, and I'm always reminded of a golf lesson that I took, where I was hitting the ball very well...and the instructor commented that I had good hand/eye coordination, and added I'd have to with that swing.
I got better at making shots and won my share in leagues, small tournaments, etc....but never improved my stroke..
I finally figured out a few years ago...that all that play was wasted...and I now work on my stroke....and I'm a better player, then before.
So, I'd suggest that you find a good coach...don't worry too much about pocketing balls, until you have a decent stroke, and a good setup. I read once where you should divide your practice....concentrate on your stroke...forget the misses...then same shots, now shift your focus to making the shot.
And making the shot is only half of the equation...
Get yourself a barrel of marbles...after you run the table...discard one marble...after you've lost all your marbles....you WILL BE a pool player

1Time
06-22-2005, 06:22 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote wolfdancer:</font><hr> to begin with...you addressed your post to the great ones
so why are all these other people butting in?<hr /></blockquote>

I resemble that remark!

tjlmbklr
06-22-2005, 06:29 PM
quote] don't worry too much about pocketing balls, until you have a decent stroke, and a good setup. <hr /></blockquote>

Oh trust me I am firm believer in the walk before you run. And yes I know that I should real start fresh from the top. This is why I was very detailed in explaining that I need someone (a coach , instructor, Pro. etc.) to watch me and tell me what my inconsistencies are and guide me to correct them. We can talk all day about what english to play to make shots, or where to aim, or should I say how to, but none of this matters if you can't make that 2 1/4" white ball go in the direction that your eyes intened. So yes I agree and am very aware that stroke matters.

Thank you for your reply

wolfdancer
06-22-2005, 06:47 PM
Geez, i thought i had tight pockets...4" corners....sounds like you need to spray silicone on the balls so they'll slide into those narrow openings.
Pat Sheehan (Portland) area built my table, using exra length rubber, but at the room i used to work in, in the Bay Area, the pockets were shimmed....I'd walk away from a salesman that didn't know what shimmed pockets were.
Last nite at Costco, I talked an couple out of buying a table from there, for their son...it looked ok...but I didn't like the overall construction.
3- 3/4" openings???? in golf we try to put a 1" (forget the fractions) ball into a 4 1/2" hole....so in pool...with 2 " balls, we should have 8 or 9" pockets. them small pockets you got are like a pool "hairshirt'...very punishing

bluey2king
06-23-2005, 08:26 AM
My advice would be Simple.
Take one or two lessons, You need to get stance and stroke working for you. There are several video training tapes or DVD's. I would no longer invest in tapes if a DVD is there for the same program. I have the Byrnes series, he is good. I like Dr. Dave's web site, that really helps the visualization process for me. His high speed video is excellent! He has many more video items worth looking at, it really helps to have a high speed internet connection. I have the Monk 101 dvd and his book "The Lesson" in a e-book format. I printed the book keep it in three ring binder. I like this because it easy to take the pages to the table. I feel this is a very good system for learning. He starts with stop shots, then moves stop shots on a angle this will help predicting the path of the cueball. and so on building off each lesson. Some lessons are very hard but they do teach what he is talking about the struggle really is the learning process. Some people are turned off the Monk because of his Zen approach. I used to practiced karate and I like it. Check out his wab site for more info and he has money back promise if you don't like it. After working with one of these systems go back to instructor, this is where he really can make improvements with you.
IMHO
Bluey2King

tjlmbklr
06-23-2005, 02:33 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There are several video training tapes or DVD's. <hr /></blockquote>

I have the Byrnes set, Have had them for many years but was never able to apply what I watch directly to a table. I did learn a lot from these, but some of his advise seems a little old school. I will also have the convinience of a TV in my new billiard room to help with this. I did not have this luxery before when had a table. I have always been interested in the Monk set does anyone else think these instructional tapes are good.