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poolcrazed
06-28-2005, 08:35 PM
I have heard a couple different answers to which tip position will cause natural roll immediately after leaving the cue tip (one tip up, three tips up). I have also heard that it is not possible to impart any spin faster than natural follow using a level cue. My question is, what happens to the energy from the cue stick that should be tranferred into rotational speed when hitting above center on the cue ball? Then, if we can't spin a cue ball faster than natural roll, where do the extreme follow effects come from?

Ace
06-28-2005, 09:36 PM
It is possible to cause the cue ball to have more foreward spin than natural rotation needed to roll to the other end of the table by using follow and stroking the cue ball fairly hard. The cue ball will only hold the positive rotation for about 6 - 8 inches max and then the natural rotation will take over. The only time a cue ball needs to be stroked that hard would be to pocket an object ball from end of the table to the other end of the table and having the cue ball follow the full lenght of the table, hit the rail, and return back to the original end of the table for the next shot.

Alfie
06-28-2005, 10:33 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolcrazed:</font><hr> I have heard a couple different answers to which tip position will cause natural roll immediately after leaving the cue tip (one tip up, three tips up).<hr /></blockquote>That point is .4 ball radii (.45", about 7/16") above center.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolcrazed:</font><hr>I have also heard that it is not possible to impart any spin faster than natural follow using a level cue.<hr /></blockquote>I think you can. There is almost 1/8" above the natural roll hit point in which you could get some overspin before reaching the miscue limit. However, what little overspin you may get is almost immediately rubbed off by ball/cloth friction.

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolcrazed:</font><hr>[...]where do the extreme follow effects come from?<hr /></blockquote>top spin plus stick speed

pigbrain
07-07-2005, 09:29 PM
thankyou so much i learn alot.
when stroke a hard follow, can the friction between the cueball and the Objectball lifts the cueball off from the cloth, i mean the cueball lost contact with the cloth?

rukiddingme
07-07-2005, 09:54 PM
Have you ever played tennis or ping pong and tried to apply top spin?
When applying follow to your cue lower the butt end of your cue. Try that when you apply 3 tips above center.
ruk

dr_dave
07-08-2005, 02:03 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote poolcrazed:</font><hr> I have heard a couple different answers to which tip position will cause natural roll immediately after leaving the cue tip (one tip up, three tips up). I have also heard that it is not possible to impart any spin faster than natural follow using a level cue. My question is, what happens to the energy from the cue stick that should be tranferred into rotational speed when hitting above center on the cue ball? Then, if we can't spin a cue ball faster than natural roll, where do the extreme follow effects come from? <hr /></blockquote>
First of all, you might want to view my related answer in another thread (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=199968&amp;page =0&amp;view=collapsed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=&amp;fpart=1). It is pertinent.

Now, concerning the amount of center ball offset required for immediate normal roll, the answer (and analysis) are in TP 4.2 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/technical_proofs/TP_4-2.pdf). The technical term for the contact point for natural roll is "the center of percussion." The required contact point offset from center ball is:

2/5 R = 2/5 (2.125 in / 2) = .45 in

The maximum recommended offset, beyond which miscues are very likely, is usually cited in the range:

1/2 in to 9/16 in = .50 in to .56 in

Therefore, follow (topspin) in excess of normal roll is possible (i.e., .45 is less than .5), but not by much.

The reason for extreme follow effects is all about speed. For a fast normal roll follow shot, the topspin angular speed goes up as the ball linear speed goes up. And for small cut angle shots, the cue ball loses most of its linear speed and retains most of the spin, causing significant follow effects. HSV 4.1-4.3 (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/high_speed_videos/index.html) illustrate the principles fairly well.

Regards,
Dave