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Snyder1
07-13-2005, 03:51 PM
With a jump cue, is the "dart" stroke legal in pro competition or do the pro's HAVE to use the raised butt technique ? To clarify my terminology, the butt is raised almost to eye level, and you "throw" the cue like a dart; whereas, the raised butt method, the butt is elevated to just under your chin. To me, the dart stroke is so much easier to get the ball off the table - I imagine there's a rule that says it can't be used in pro competition ... thx.

John

DvB
07-13-2005, 05:13 PM
The "dart" stroke is legal. It's not used nearly as often as the traditional "pendulum" stroke. I'm sure the better pool players will say that it's because the pendulum stroke offers more accuracy, control, etc., but I secretly think it's simply because the pendulum stroke is more difficult to perfect -- and is therefore "cooler." I'm a dork and use the dart stroke to wonderful effect all day long.

--D

Bob_Jewett
07-13-2005, 05:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Snyder1:</font><hr> With a jump cue, is the "dart" stroke legal in pro competition or ... <hr /></blockquote>
Yes. The dart stroke is also commonly used for masse shots.

There are some leagues which have local rules that the stick may not be lifted above a certain height relative to the shoulder.

There was a guy in Texas who shot most of his shots with a dart grip, even when not elevated. Or so I was told -- I never actually saw this wonder.

Sid_Vicious
07-13-2005, 06:14 PM
Take my word for it...the dart is the easiest and most accurate. WHY the best of the best go underneath, I'd have to guess they have a paranoia of looking uncool. Their f-up MO...sid

Snyder1
07-14-2005, 05:42 AM
Thx to all !!

J

Chopstick
07-14-2005, 08:48 AM
It depends on the distance. The dart produces a higher arc. I use both. I use the dart for close up work. When the distances are farther I want a lower longer arch. I find that butt elevation works better for me in that situation.

Fran Crimi
07-14-2005, 09:55 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chopstick:</font><hr> It depends on the distance. The dart produces a higher arc. I use both. I use the dart for close up work. When the distances are farther I want a lower longer arch. I find that butt elevation works better for me in that situation. <hr /></blockquote>

I agree. I also think that people who use the dart stroke will tend to over-elevate on shots where it's not necessary. And the higher the arc is, the more difficult it is to control the cb, in more ways than one. The cb will be decending down to the table on more of a vertical line, immediately slowing it down once it slams into the table. If you're using a dart stroke, and you tend to over-elevate, and the ob you need to hit is far away, you will have to send the cb on a fly for a much longer distance than with the pendulum stroke with a lower arc, where the cb will roll more of the distance to the ob to make the hit.

It may be easier to jump over balls that are close to the cb with a dart stroke, but if the ob you need to hit is far away, I find that many pros will opt to kick at the shot instead, which is why it may seem like they prefer the pendulum stroke.

What's "cool" is not the issue.

Fran

Sid_Vicious
07-14-2005, 12:29 PM
"I also think that people who use the dart stroke will tend to over-elevate on shots"

I agree, and yet if the darters just realized it, they have a lot more body lean-back range than they perceive in their minds. Take the customary three rail shot for a corner hanger. It's very easy with a few jumps using the dart to make that shot when blocked over near the corner on the same short rail, and the trick is to reduce the stance height and trust the above center hit on the CB, using the same inside running english as with a ling stick. It's not a practical option most of the time, but fun to show off with that execution...sid

Fran Crimi
07-15-2005, 08:11 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> "
I agree, and yet if the darters just realized it, they have a lot more body lean-back range than they perceive in their minds. <hr /></blockquote>


Do you mean something like this?

http://www.mysportsresults.com/Photos/Out2002/B-CONvsSIM/field02.jpg

Eric.
07-15-2005, 09:08 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> "
I agree, and yet if the darters just realized it, they have a lot more body lean-back range than they perceive in their minds. <hr /></blockquote>


Do you mean something like this?

http://www.mysportsresults.com/Photos/Out2002/B-CONvsSIM/field02.jpg <hr /></blockquote>

That cue might be more than 40" /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif


Eric

ceebee
07-15-2005, 01:09 PM
Chopstick, I agree with you. Gaging the elevation &amp; the cue ball's arc is important for making the shot &amp; controlling the the aftermath.

My method of jumping a ball depends on the distance of the shot to the OBJECT BALL &amp; the distance of the Cue Ball to the Blocking Ball or Balls.

Sid_Vicious
08-10-2005, 05:38 AM
I believe you'll get no rules prohibiting pros from the dart, they just choose not to use it, old school maybe. And yes, the dart is easier, both in getting air and with putting special action on the CB, i.e. quick stops and CB masse after landing. They probably don't want to be the first ones to look stupid(in their minds) by going to the dart...sid

Fred Agnir
08-10-2005, 06:33 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Sid_Vicious:</font><hr> Take my word for it...the dart is the easiest and most accurate. <hr /></blockquote> It is the easiest, but the most accurate? In the end, the player still has to work out how to gain accuracy on the high elevation. The lower elevation dart is, IMO, as accurate as any other method. It's the increase in elevation that increases the curve (Coriolis).

[ QUOTE ]
WHY the best of the best go underneath, I'd have to guess they have a paranoia of looking uncool. <hr /></blockquote> You've said this before, and you were wrong then, too. Did you ever consider that these pros that have shot thousands and thousands of shots with a regular cue, jacked up with a pendulum would actually find the pendulum stroke more natural and therefore easier? When I show people the jump cue, half are able to do the dart stroke, and half just have no bodily concept to stroke in that direction. Normally, the guys who can't do the dart are able to do the overhand pendulum. It's not a "cool vs. uncool" thing.


Fred

Fred Agnir
08-10-2005, 06:35 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Bob_Jewett:</font><hr> There was a guy in Texas who shot most of his shots with a dart grip, even when not elevated. Or so I was told -- I never actually saw this wonder. <hr /></blockquote>There is a guy in Massachusetts (league player), who shoots all of his shots one-handed dart (spear). I've seen him play with both hands, and frankly, he should always stick to his one-handed method.

Fred