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Marie
07-14-2005, 12:51 PM
I am researching billiards instructional material and would appreciate comments from both advanced and beginner players re the most useful types, e.g. books, videos (VHS,DVD), cards, notebooks, etc. Any comments on presentation styles and content would also be appreciated.

dr_dave
07-14-2005, 02:26 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Marie:</font><hr> I am researching billiards instructional material and would appreciate comments from both advanced and beginner players re the most useful types, e.g. books, videos (VHS,DVD), cards, notebooks, etc. Any comments on presentation styles and content would also be appreciated.<hr /></blockquote>
FYI, there have been several threads discussing and recommending different instructional books. Links can be found under "books" in my thread summary webpage (http://www.engr.colostate.edu/~dga/pool/threads.html).

Regards,
Dave

ceebee
07-14-2005, 04:54 PM
There are several good books available for sale. Ebay is a good forum for finding these books. Videos are good too, seeing something done well, is real difficult to describe. Dr. Cue has a few good videos, Bert Kinister has a few &amp; so does Robert Byrne.

pooltchr
07-14-2005, 05:48 PM
Books, videos, and such are good sources of information. Most training aids may offer some value, but unless the player has the knowledge, they may not be able to use them effectively. Ultimately, and I am somewhat prejudiced here, nothing beats having a qualified instructor to help any student of the game reach their maximum potential.

Dave, you just spent some time with Randy. Wouldn't you agree??

Steve

Barbara
07-14-2005, 06:36 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Marie:</font><hr> I am researching billiards instructional material and would appreciate comments from both advanced and beginner players re the most useful types, e.g. books, videos (VHS,DVD), cards, notebooks, etc. Any comments on presentation styles and content would also be appreciated. <hr /></blockquote>

There's lots of stuff out there. And there are a lot of people on this site to help you in your endeavor.

What's your goal and intention to acquiring these materials? What games are you interested in?

Barbara

caedos
07-15-2005, 08:28 AM
My $.02:

Books, videos, articles, devices, instruction, and any other form of training you can think of can be had in a huge range or quality and costs. Now that I've stated what should be obvious... If you want to research those things without spending the money you might solicit your local pool players until you find some training and learning junkies, who will have many of the types of training material and some opinions to go with them.

I have tons of books, videos, articles, and devices. With the blessing of the Billiard Congress of America I will move from Certified to Advanced in the instructor ranks after their administrative meeting next Thursday/Friday. Many of the posters on this board have a fair amount of such things collected, and many are good instructors. I think most if not all of us would agree that there are flaws in every one of the aforementioned items you might buy. I will get almost any training item or media and add it to my collection if I can afford it at the time. If it is 99.9999999999999% flawed or incorrect, that's fine. I still find it valuable in the what not to produce or teach department, and the one or few things good I can find with the product will either teach me something new or will reinforce the value of what I already do and know.

Directed to your interest in research: swim through the archives of this board and you will find tons of material. If you would like something from the board members, you may want to request something more concrete regarding usefulness or what you may be needing. Unless part of your research is observe respondent behavior /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I teach, coach, train, play, read, watch, and write. Almost all of the stuff on market is useful to me. There is no rhyme or reason to finding one that is better or more useful than the other in my mind until I know what I'm trying to get out of it (results or information), what kind of reviews something has, and then I need to use the item or train with the instructor myself.
Presentations vary widely but here's a few I like a great deal:

- The 'Everything'(Amy Wall and Fran Crimi), 'For Idiots'(Ewa Mataya Laurence), and 'For Dummies'(I don't think they have a pool book) series of books have great methods of distinguishing sections of content and subsections. There is usually some great information somewhere in that great presentation, lurking in a corner of some random chapter.

- The Kinister video series is good for playing while you shoot if you have a table at the house. To sit and watch a 20 to 40 minute video of his put me in a coma, because I've learned what it's about in five minutes and the vast majority of his videos beat you death with the repetition of the original concept after it's introduction. I've seen at least three-quarters of his 54-plus videos and he's consistent in his format, maybe because his personal approach is consistent as well. The beauty of his presentation skills is the intensity and direction of directing the player to do the work. It's tough not to get at least some good results out of a player following Bert's guidelines.

- Tim "The Monk" Miller has books and videos out with a clean looking set of books, and a few videos. His materials all follow his "Monk" theme of presentation and is quite charismatic. Usefulness is a matter of opinion and what you're trying to get out of his work. I find much to learn from him on the marketing and presentation side of the equation.

- David G.Aciatore, PhD. a.k.a. "Dr.Dave": The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards. This may be hands down the best physical presentation of a pool text I've ever seen. By that I mean this: paper weight and gloss, sectioning, cross-referencing, supporting online media, graphics, and a separation of text in pieces directed to different reader needs (not unlike the 'For Dummies' where a section is for a 'rule of thumb' or 'important!' note). The cover gets beat up pretty easy, and the material can be an overload, but regardless of content the book presents very attractively (to me) all the way through.

- Videos (Kinister, The Monk, Feeney, Rossman, Jopling, Matthews) usually are limited in their presentation by a non-studio setting and by lack of use of high-level recording devices, editing, professional recording engineers, and broadcast support personnel. A good balance between flashy showmanship, technical information, and quality settings are rarely established. However, much of what is actually shown on the video is often very useful to a player.

You may find it useful to look at 'cause' oriented and 'results'oriented respondents, also viewed as 'how' people and 'why' people sometimes by the questions they ask.

This was a stream of consciousness dissertation by A Few Minutes to Kill Typing, Inc. of North Dallas.

Have a nice day /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif


Carl

Billy_Bob
07-15-2005, 08:29 AM
Well with most books/videos on billiards, there is a "disconnect" between learning new shots and *practicing* what you have learned on a pool table. And not much thought is given to this by the authors/publishers of these materials.

Books: Many books on billiards, due to their binding, are difficult to stay open to a certain page. And you would need to skip around the book to practice the shots presented in the book. Also you may already know some shots and not need to practice them.

So you read the book, take the book to the pool hall... One shot you need to practice is on page 21, the next on page 23 you don't need to practice. The next is on page 36, next page 48, etc. Then you turn to page 48 and the book does not stay open to that page. So you try to find some heavy object to place on the book to keep it open to that page.

No particular book has all the drills and shots you need to practice. So you take 5 different books to the pool hall, your cue case, other personal items - need a shopping cart to carry everything in!

Basically you spend all of your time flipping through books finding the shots you want to practice. Not an ideal situation!

Videos: You watch a video at home, then go to the pool hall to practice the shots you have learned. You try to set up a shot, but forget exactly how it was set up as shown in the video. You go back home, then have to fast forward through the VHS to try and find where that shot was shown. Or a DVD, some of these do not have a menu - none of them have a menu which will take you to a specific shot, so again you need to fast forward to find where the shot was. You can't hear the sound as you fast forward, so have trouble finding the shot. You wind up having to watch a lot of the DVD again to find where they discussed the shot. You finally find the shot, then need to diagram it on paper - so you can go practice it.

You are spending all your time flipping through books and watching videos rather than practicing shots!

What I did so I could spend most of my time practicing: What I practice comes from many different sources. Perhaps 15 different books, 6 different videos, shots I have had difficulty with in the past, drills I have created myself, shots and drills found or discussed on the internet, and shots/drills other players have taught me.

When I read a book, I diagram the shots or drills and take notes. Same thing when watching videos. (I am constantly hitting pause/rewind so I can diagram the information.) Then I make my own diagrams using Adobe Photoshop. These diagrams are all standard in size and as large as will fit on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper (link to example below). Then I place these into a 3-ring binder.

My practice is "dynamic". i.e. it is always changing and tailored specifically to myself. Thus the 3-ring binder makes it easy to add/delete practice pages. Each shot has a name like cut 1, draw 1, draw, 2, scratch 4, etc. The diagrams are in alphabetical order, so it is easy to go directly to a specific shot.

Along with the diagrams, I also have a 7 page practice sheet. One page for every day of the week. There is too much stuff to practice in any one day. I have text descriptions of shots to practice, or if a diagram is needed to set up a specific shot, it references the diagram in my 3-ring binder - such as [cut 1], [Throw 3], [Scratch 2], etc. I have about 60 different diagrams of shots to practice. Here is the stuff I practice...

Monday - Bridge, Stance, Grip, Stroke, Speed, Draw, Follow, Stun, Jump Shots

Tuesday - Position, Tangent, Scratch, Throw, Timed Shots

Wednesday - Kick, Safety Shots

Thursday - Aiming, Carom, Cluster, Combination Shots

Friday - Cut, Nip, Misc. shots
(Misc. shots are left-handed, one-handed, mechanical bridge.)

Saturday - Straight, Massť shots

Sunday - Frozen balls, Bank Shots, Break Shots


Example of one of my diagrams - largest diagram that can be placed on 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper, easy to see diagram...
http://www.geocities.com/billybobnospam/cut1.jpg

dr_dave
07-15-2005, 08:40 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote caedos:</font><hr>David G.Aciatore, PhD. a.k.a. "Dr.Dave": The Illustrated Principles of Pool and Billiards. This may be hands down the best physical presentation of a pool text I've ever seen. By that I mean this: paper weight and gloss, sectioning, cross-referencing, supporting online media, graphics, and a separation of text in pieces directed to different reader needs (not unlike the 'For Dummies' where a section is for a 'rule of thumb' or 'important!' note). The cover gets beat up pretty easy, and the material can be an overload, but regardless of content the book presents very attractively (to me) all the way through.<hr /></blockquote>
Carl,

Thanks for that flattering review. That means a lot to me coming from your discerning eye and thorough nature.

Regards,
Dave

dr_dave
07-15-2005, 08:45 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Books, videos, and such are good sources of information. Most training aids may offer some value, but unless the player has the knowledge, they may not be able to use them effectively. Ultimately, and I am somewhat prejudiced here, nothing beats having a qualified instructor to help any student of the game reach their maximum potential.

Dave, you just spent some time with Randy. Wouldn't you agree??<hr /></blockquote>
Steve,

I agree 100%. Nothing can beat a qualified, knowledgeable, and experienced instructor that has the ability to reach and cater their teachings to an individual. I definitely learned a lot about my game and how to teach pool during my visit to CueTech. See Dr. Dave's impressions of CueTech (http://www.billiardsdigest.com/ccboard/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Board=ccb&amp;Number=197091&amp;page =&amp;view=&amp;sb=&amp;o=&amp;vc=1) for more details.

Regards,
Dave

Fran Crimi
07-15-2005, 09:23 AM
I don't know about you all, but my antenne stand up when somebody comes here for the first time and asks for this type of information without even giving the courtesy of saying who they are (with references) and why they want the information.

This is an unusual and extensive request. What's this all about? Are they conducting a study, writing a book, looking to plagerize? Comments on presentation and styles? Well, hell.

I wouldn't be so forthcoming in the blind if I were you all.

JMO

Fran

Fran Crimi
07-15-2005, 09:25 AM
Sharp as a tack as always, Barbara....Tap Tap Tap

Fran

Billy_Bob
07-15-2005, 09:46 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>...This is an unusual and extensive request. What's this all about? Are they conducting a study, writing a book...<hr /></blockquote>

They say... "Build a better mouse-trap and the world will beat a path to your door."

Maybe this person is trying to "build a better mousetrap" or might be advising others on how to do so.

Might be a good time to discuss your likes/dislikes of books/videos. Then maybe future books/videos will incorporate our suggestions.

I know many companies will do a lot of "consumer research" before spending the bucks to produce a product. Then they will be able to produce a product which people want/need.

Good for the game if you ask me...

Fran Crimi
07-15-2005, 09:59 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Billy_Bob:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote Fran Crimi:</font><hr>...This is an unusual and extensive request. What's this all about? Are they conducting a study, writing a book...<hr /></blockquote>

They say... "Build a better mouse-trap and the world will beat a path to your door."

Maybe this person is trying to "build a better mousetrap" or might be advising others on how to do so.

Might be a good time to discuss your likes/dislikes of books/videos. Then maybe future books/videos will incorporate our suggestions.

I know many companies will do a lot of "consumer research" before spending the bucks to produce a product. Then they will be able to produce a product which people want/need.

Good for the game if you ask me...


<hr /></blockquote>

Good points, but on the other hand, this could be someone looking to market something that's really not that good, and is looking for the right buzz words or phrases to draw you to their product.

In that case, it wouldn't really be good for the game, would it?

Let's not confuse good marketing with good products.

Fran

pooltchr
07-15-2005, 03:22 PM
Carl,
Congrats on the upgrade. Hopefully mine will be going through at the same time.
Steve

Voodoo Daddy
07-15-2005, 04:41 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Books, videos, and such are good sources of information. Most training aids may offer some value, but unless the player has the knowledge, they may not be able to use them effectively. Ultimately, and I am somewhat prejudiced here, nothing beats having a qualified instructor to help any student of the game reach their maximum potential.

Dave, you just spent some time with Randy. Wouldn't you agree??

Steve <hr /></blockquote>
Not that I care but why do almost every one of your posts include RandyG's name?

pooltchr
07-15-2005, 05:14 PM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> Not that I care but why do almost every one of your posts include RandyG's name? <hr /></blockquote>

I didn't know they did, but then, I rarely read anything I write anyway! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Steve

Wally_in_Cincy
07-18-2005, 06:36 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr>

Not that I care but why do almost every one of your posts include RandyG's name? <hr /></blockquote>

don't you know? G stands for God /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

apologies to all /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

randyg
07-19-2005, 05:41 AM
Wally: You are correct. The G stands for Goettlicher, which in German is loosely translated into "God Like".

SPF-randyg (having fun with Vodoo)

Voodoo Daddy
07-19-2005, 08:42 AM
<blockquote><font class="small">Quote randyg:</font><hr> Wally: You are correct. The G stands for Goettlicher, which in German is loosely translated into "God Like".

SPF-randyg (having fun with Vodoo) <hr /></blockquote>


Glad you found some ammusment in my question Randy. Actually suprised that you responded to one of my posts, first time in years. Lotsa sheep and only a few herders /ccboard/images/graemlins/smirk.gif so I guess I'm lucky you even read it...

chas1022
02-02-2006, 09:22 AM
Billy Bob,a very good piece. All of us to practice according to what we need to improve on in our game. I practice similar to the way u practice. I have found by drawing diagrams of the shots,the shot gets implanted in my mind also.

Drop1
02-02-2006, 12:36 PM
HA HA HA HE HE YUCK YUCK Who are you? When you get all the information,be sure and post it. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Deeman3
02-02-2006, 03:36 PM
Carl &amp; Billy Bob:

Nice summaries by both of you.

Deeman